excessive ignition advance during cranking?

[POS carb]

I've been experiencing difficult starting for a while. Checked battery, connections, new starter and ignition switch.
I think it is related to the distributor or ignitor.
It feels like it's preigniting during cranking and pushing back on the pistons and starter. If I flood the intake before cranking the starter runs at the correct speed.

what would cause excessive advance duing cranking?
could it be an igniter problem or distributor or coil?
I notice the fuel pump relay is wired into the distributor, maybe it's related? this is pissing me off :(

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8484/ignitioncircuit.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/ignitioncircuit.jpg/)

[Dr_Snooz]

Usually a bad igniter causes the tach to jump around. I would be more interested in knowing what your spark plugs look like. What does the distributor rotor look like? When was the last tune up? Have you checked your timing? Do you notice any fuel odors when it does this? Does keeping the accelerator on the floor during starting make a difference?

I've had cars start like this before. I just can't remember what fixed it...

[Dr_Snooz]

Oh yeah. If you haven't tried it before, do a lazy rebuild (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66468). I was really pleased with the results on mine. If your mechanical advance mechanism is hanging up, it could cause a lot of issues.

[2oodoor]

yes mechanical advance stuck could do that!
Also a wet or carbon traced cap, and a hidden dirty battery terminal connection.

[Rendon LX-i]

BINGO^^^^ thats your anwnser

[POS carb]

Oh yeah. If you haven't tried it before, do a lazy rebuild (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66468). I was really pleased with the results on mine. If your mechanical advance mechanism is hanging up, it could cause a lot of issues.

going t try this. i did suspect a bad ground to the igniter or a mechanical advance problem but I've never been that deep in the distributor. thank you for that link.
btw cap rotor and wires are a month old. plugs. ... maybe 6mo. vacuum advance 1 yr

[lostforawhile]

are both diaphragms working? the second diaphragm retards the timing during cranking to make it easier to start

[POS carb]

i thought it adds advance when it is cold? there isn't much vacuum during cranking. Oh i forgot to mention mine is carbed, maybe the efi has a different setup

[lostforawhile]

i thought it adds advance when it is cold? there isn't much vacuum during cranking. Oh i forgot to mention mine is carbed, maybe the efi has a different setup

no retarding the ignition during cranking makes it easier to start the engine

[POS carb]

After doing a timing check I figured out my mechanical advance was stuck. I tore the distributor down. What a mess, I should have done this years ago. I put some new advance springs off a spare distributor that was in the store (no idea what kind of car it's for) and cleaned and greased everything and replaced the two oil seals. put it all back together and the car fires right up. Gonna go for a spin and see what happens.

I read through the service manual, the primary vaccum advance gets direct manifold vacuum and the secondary diaphragm adds around 3 degrees of extra advance while the coolant is under 50C or 122F. Once the car is warmed up the thermovalve cuts the vacuum to the secondary.

[Dr_Snooz]

This was my experience (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=64421) when I opened up a dizzie for rebuilding. I came up with the lazy rebuild as a way to extend the life of the working one I have. Glad it worked out for you.