EGR Problems

[import racer]

I got a code 12 yesterday so i took off the egr and cleaned it,put it back on and still get a code.Took one off my spare motor and still get a code 12 and it runs rough at stop lights.What else would cause this.My egr is not hooked to vacuum and black box is gone,just using map sensor and another one.Could pinching off the tube from exhaust help?

[Rendon LX-i]

Even thou the EGR is unhooked it can be stuck open Enought for Exhuast to pass threw giving you a rought idle. Pitching off the Tube will determin if if thats the case. If you have a vaccum gauge you should see the vacuum go right up if you pitch it. If your still getting code 12 its cause sensor on the Egr is bad. If the egr system is not working correctly on are accords no matter what youll have a EGR code. i could not get rid of it when i deleted the egr. If you have it working and all of a sudden having a code. Much so it is the unit it self or the sensor. Also check resistance on the wires to the pcm. that can also cause a code.

[import racer]

Should I check for resistance at the egr plug,The egr off my other motor never threw a code when i drove it so how can it be bad to. I don't have a vacuum guage but could get one to use.

[import racer]

Hey Rendon could I put a plate under the egr valve would that work.

[Rendon LX-i]

Yup thats what I would do

[import racer]

Well I put a block off plate under egr valve and pinched off the tube,changed the oil too today man was it nasty looking.Didn't get chance to run it,but the last time I ran it I noticed an issue with gas getting to the injectors,It seems like it wasn't getting gas while driving along and have to pump it to keep going.The car hasn't been on the road in three years so I got to work the bugs out.Maybe the sock filter on the fuel pump needs to be changed,how do you change that anyway.

[Dr_Snooz]

It's probably varnish in the fuel delivery system. Start with a bottle of injector cleaner and see what happens.

[ecogabriel]

I got a code 12 yesterday so i took off the egr and cleaned it,put it back on and still get a code.Took one off my spare motor and still get a code 12 and it runs rough at stop lights.What else would cause this.My egr is not hooked to vacuum and black box is gone,just using map sensor and another one.Could pinching off the tube from exhaust help?

Sounds like a piece of carbon is keeping the EGR valve from closing. The ECU would identify that the valve is not in the expected position (it reads the sensor attached to the top of the EGR valve) and trigger code 12.

If you have a multimeter and a vaccum pump with gauge, you can check whether the EGR sensor works by checking its continuity. Change to the ohms scale in the multimeter (in the Kohms range), place one tester probe on the CENTER pin of the EGR wire connector, and the other probe on one of the side pins.
Apply vaccuum VERY slowly (about 5inHG opens the valve completely so go slow) and see how the resistance changes. One side increases resistance with vacuum increases or decreases depending with side pin you choose.
If you see any discontinuity l - from reading to no reading (my tester reads one when there is an open circuit) or there is no reading with changes in vacuum, the EGR valve is defective.

[import racer]

If I get an egr that is in good shape will my engine light go out with the egr blocked off and the tube pinched.If not I might as well leave it the wa it is as long as it runs ok.

[import racer]

Idle still drops and running rough,Any ideas?

[pickupman6]

I just did the black box delete too and its still giving me a code 12 too which I expected. I've had it since I got the car and I've replaced the egr, solenoid and cvc. I finally just got tired of the crap so I ripped it all out except the map and icm. I don't know about the 89s but on my 87 I have 3 vacuum ports on my tb. The center one only has vacuum on it when you give it gas. I hooked that to my egr and so far that's been how my car runs the best. Still gettin a cel tho but its running better than ever. Of course that doesn't help you though cuz u blocked off the egr and crimped the pipe so I'm guessing your problem lies somewhere else. Did you plug your map sensor into the tb or intake mine ran like crap plugged into right side (front side) of the tb also yours being an 89 has secondaries in the intake that are no longer being controlled like the should, that probably isn't the problem either but u could try closing them back to see if it makes any difference. And finally the icm which color module dide u use and what wires and is it hooked to the outside (farthest from motor) vacuum port or the closest one. It should be the closest one, don't remember what wire tho I know blk/ylw but don't remember if I hooked mine to the red or the other color. One of my modules might be bad or mabe its supposed to do it but one clicks repeatedly once it engages clicking on and off, so I used the other one. If you do figure out how to get rid of your code 12 be sure and let me know, I've tried everything they said in that other post and nothing worked. I think I'm gong to check the lift sensor to see if its reading right. Does any one know how to test it. I was thinking of hooking up an analog multimeter and seing if it sweeps smoothly when I apply vacuum to it.

[Rendon LX-i]

Adjust your valves.

[import racer]

What do you mean one closest to and farthest from what?

[pickupman6]

Sorry I meant distributor not head. The vac port closest to the dizzy should go to the intake the other one to the icm

[import racer]

A picture would be helpful to explain what you're saying.

[pickupman6]

No I can't

[ecogabriel]

I hope the following diagrams help. First, a schematic of the vacuum for the EGR valve itself

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7272/egrefi.th.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/egrefi.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Second, a complete vacuum schematics. Notice where #24 hose is attached to the intake manifold. It takes engine vacuum to the cvc which in turn operates the EGR valve when the ECU triggers the solenoid.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/650/vacuum.th.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/vacuum.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Both schemes come with 86-87 Accords.

88-89 are slightly different; there is no hose #17 bringing fresh air to the EGR valve when the solenoid is off, and the solenoid itself is different. other things are the same

[pickupman6]

Thanks ecogabriel, but he doesn't even have a black box.
First off import racer it doesn't matter if the valve is good or not if you don't have it hooked to vacuum. The computer tells the valve what to do then it gets a reading from the sensor on top of the egr. If the egr valve isn't where its expected to be you get a code. What we need to do is figure out why your car runs so poorly. Take a picture of your set up or tell us how you have it hooked up. Including what wires are hooked up to your icm and map sensor and also how you got your vacuum lines run, including where they are hooked to the intake. Is code 12 your only code and do you have any other mods. I don't care what other people say the code 12 is not your problem if you have the egr blocked off. We can figure this out.

[import racer]

Well it's hooked up the way the diagram on here shows,and the map is hooked to the throttle body on to the port on the right side.The wires going to them are the way they were before when in the black box.Tonight I got a code 6 so I changed it with another one I had and I still a code 6.I took the fuse out for the ecu to reset the computer too,I slso checked the wire for power with a test light and it's getting power with the key on.Is there anything else that could give me a code 6.

[pickupman6]

I figured u had a code 6 which is the ect/tw. Which one did you change, the green one or the tan one. All the green one does is control the fan. You need to change the tan one.

[import racer]

Update,tried another temp sensor and the cel went out,I don't have a green one just white.Mine only has one, Canadian model is different I guess.I didn't take it out for a drive,I'll do that tomorrow.I also noticed my dash light for the tail lights is on again,it was off for awhile but it's back on again.I changed the modual on the tail lights two months ago and it was good,now it's on again .not sure what causes this.Have to check them out tomorrow.

[pickupman6]

Ok I didn't know that, let us know if that fixed it for you. And maybe your lucky and it actually just a blown bulb this time.

[import racer]

Well I'm getting pissed off at this ,IT STILL IDLES ROUGH BELOW 500 RPM,IT DOESN'T" HAVE ANY PICKUP TIL IT HITS HIGH GEAR AND EVERY TIME I TAKE A SHARP TURN IT STARVES FOR FUEL.SOMEBODY PLEASE HELLLLLLP!

[import racer]

Should the map sensor go to the tb or manifold,I'm gonna try it on the manifold tomorrow and see if it's better.I thought FI was supposed to be better than carbed,All I'm having is headaches with mine.

[vteckiller]

Even thou the EGR is unhooked it can be stuck open Enought for Exhuast to pass threw giving you a rought idle. Pitching off the Tube will determin if if thats the case. If you have a vaccum gauge you should see the vacuum go right up if you pitch it. If your still getting code 12 its cause sensor on the Egr is bad. If the egr system is not working correctly on are accords no matter what youll have a EGR code. i could not get rid of it when i deleted the egr. If you have it working and all of a sudden having a code. Much so it is the unit it self or the sensor. Also check resistance on the wires to the pcm. that can also cause a code.

So you have an A20A3 Engine? or obviously not.. and it won't be fatal to a car's internal parts removing the EGR correct?

[import racer]

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z304/importracer1987/engine003.jpg

[import racer]

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z304/importracer1987/engine001.jpg

[Rendon LX-i]

So you have an A20A3 Engine? or obviously not.. and it won't be fatal to a car's internal parts removing the EGR correct?

No I used to have . Boosted an n/a lol. No it's not fetal. Nox levels increase by all means. Your engine temp prolly will increase. All egr does is cool the combustion chamber down at mid to slightly loaded pedal. Takes exhaust that in inert (cooler) in terms to cool the chamber down. Reducing Nox levels an better for the cat. Never style like d16 an b series use cam timing to run egr. Keeping the exhaust valve open slightly longer acts like a egr valve. That's why variable timing is so nice.

But it won't effect much. Unless your in Cali it won't effect much. If the egr valve it self the. Rough idle wi accrue. If a hand opporated vac pump is applied an there is NO change the. Valve is stuck open. At idle car should bog an 10 15hg of vac.

[import racer]

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z304/importracer1987/engine006.jpg

[Rendon LX-i]

That cold advance solenoid will cause problem with idle. Mine did. If gives the right amount of vac allowed.

[import racer]

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z304/importracer1987/engine005.jpg

[pickupman6]

Ok. Can't tell much from those pics cause I'm on my phone so they're pretty small but it looks like you have vacuum from manifold to the inside port in the distributor and you have a t that is going to the icm off that line too I'm guessin. If so that all looks good. I can't tell where your map sensor hose is coming from, but as long as you have constant vacuum you should be good on that too. Did you solve that code 6 problem yet. One other thing I would check is see if your icm works by applying voltage to the yellow wire. ( Or whatever color it is I don't remember I'm not around my car to check.) With no voltage you shouldn't have any vacuum going thru it and then when you apply voltage you should.

[import racer]

Yeah I solved the code 6 problem,I turned the idle up some too.I checked the plugs and they were brownish grey on the insulator but black around the outside.It still isn't working right and is hard on fuel also.I have no idea what the problem is,not used to FI.I'm hoping some of the members on here that know more about fuel injection can help me fix this.Would the fuel pump be causing me to lose fuel pressure in the turns.

[import racer]

So should I check for power at the icm with a test light and the key on.

[import racer]

Rendon where is the cold advance solenoid and in the last pic you'll see a white plug with a black wire and a red one,what are these for .It was like this when I got it and I have no idea what it's for.

[pickupman6]

The only thing I can think of that would cause it to starve for gas in the corners would be perhaps there is leak in the fuel line above the fuel pump in the tank. When you turn the gas sloshes to one side and leaving the line in the open and you lose fuel pressure. Does it happen on a full tank? Its pretty simple to pull the fuel filter in these cars. Take - off battery, open trunk pull up carpet on left side, remove access plate, un plug two wire conector and gas lines, remove nuts holding the fuel pump assembly, remove assembly, and inspect for cracks or other leaks. While you have it out shine a flash light down into the tank and make sure there is no trash floating around in there.

[pickupman6]

You could test the icm but its only hot under certain conditions, it would be easier to just make sure it works by hooking it to the battery.

[import racer]

So do I disconnect the leads from the icm and hook it to the battery,I'm gonna check the tw sensor tomorrow too.Do you know what the black and red wires on the plug are for,when I got the car there was a jumper wire between the two wires and I took it off.

[pickupman6]

Just checked my factory 87 service manual and on mine I have the blk/ylw and ylw/grn hooked to the icm if you follw that ylw/grn wire back to the 6p plug it changes to a white wire with brown spots. I know yours is an 89 and has a slightly different black box than mine but I would infact test the ylw/grn wire with a test light and make sure its hot when you rev it over 1500rpms. That is the wire that should be hooked to the icm. I just went out and checked my car and that's the way it is set up. If you hold the ecm in your hand you can just tell when it actuates at 1500 rpm I held it to my ear and could hear it click then I pulled of the hose at the distributor and had no vac revved past 1500 and had vacuum.
I don't know about your jumper wires where are they run to? Its keeping your icm activated all the time that could cause your rough idle

Edit: my bad blk/ylw is (+) and ylw/grn is (-) according to the book

[pickupman6]

On tw sensor warm up engine, unplug and check resistance on the sensor. There should be between 200-400 ohms. If not replace sensor. If there is measur the voltage on the plug. Ylw/grn + and body ground.there should be 5v. If there is hook the ground probe of the tester to the grn/wht wire. If you still have 5v your ecu is bad. If you dont have 5v the grn/wht wire needs to be checked for an open circuit between tw sensor and ecu. If you didn't have 5v between ylw/grn and body ground your in trouble. Not really but I can't really offer any help past that point cause my manual says you need a "system checker harness to diagnose any further, and I'm sure you don't have one. If you do I can tell you what the manual says to test. But then again that would be for an 87 and we have differnt ecus. So I don't know if that would help any.

[import racer]

Well it's snowing out today so I can't do anything,And I have two spare ecu's both both are 5-speed ones. Don't know if they would work or not.So to check the icm I disconnect both wires and test the icm itself is that correct.

[pickupman6]

That would be one way. Or you could pull the hose off the vacuum adv that goes to the icm and make sure there is no vacuum at idle than rev it up past 1500rpm and make sure you have vacuum.

[import racer]

Ok thanks I'll check that out when the weather clears.

[import racer]

Any idea what the black and red wire on the white plug is for.

[import racer]

Well I checked the icm today,It had no vacuum at idle and no vacuum when I revved it up either so I swapped one from my other engine.Didn't get chance to check tw sensor because it was to cold.Gonna check as soon as it gets a little warmer out.How do you check map sensor?

[import racer]

The red and black wires are in the harness that runs under the intake with the alt power wire,Should I tie them together and see what happens,do you think it would hurt anything.

[import racer]

So could the map sensor make my car run rich.

[import racer]

So since I bumped up the idle and changed icm it idles better but still rough unless I bump it in neutral,then it smooths out.It still doesn't seem to have power unless I stand in it.Where is the cold advance solenoid at that rendon mentioned.Haven't got around to checking the tw sensor yet since it's either to cold or it's raining.Might get chance to check next week. Does anyone have any other ideas what could be wrong with this car,are autos really this slow?

[pickupman6]

Does the new icm work when you rev it up?

[ecogabriel]

So since I bumped up the idle and changed icm it idles better but still rough unless I bump it in neutral,then it smooths out.It still doesn't seem to have power unless I stand in it.Where is the cold advance solenoid at that rendon mentioned.Haven't got around to checking the tw sensor yet since it's either to cold or it's raining.Might get chance to check next week. Does anyone have any other ideas what could be wrong with this car,are autos really this slow?

The cold advance solenoid is inside the black box.

However, from the postings I saw there is no black box. If you still have it, look inside. 86-87 have two identical solenoids (one is for the A/C booster, the other for the cold advance).
88-89s should have at least a third one (I believe it is for the intake manifold second plenum).

Testing them is easy; check continuity between the terminals. If there is no continuity they are dead. They can be energized by applying battery voltage to the terminals (they should click when doing so), but unplug the car's wiring from the solenoids first.

[pickupman6]

And I'm not sure what valve rendon was talking about, my manual doesn't say anything about a cold advace solenoid. The only solenoid that advaces timing in my manual is the icm.
Since you done away with the black box you done away with the a/t idle boost solenoid, so your idle is going to drop when you put it in gear. Can you check your ign timing?

[ecogabriel]

And I'm not sure what valve rendon was talking about, my manual doesn't say anything about a cold advace solenoid. The only solenoid that advaces timing in my manual is the icm.
Since you done away with the black box you done away with the a/t idle boost solenoid, so your idle is going to drop when you put it in gear. Can you check your ign timing?

Good point - the A/T idle boost solenoid.

As for the advance solenoid, check DrSnooz's 89 accord service manual; it is here somewhere

[import racer]

I don't think I have the stuff saved that came out of the black box.I went by the write up posted on here as to what to save.Do yo have a pic of this solenoid,didn't check the other icm I just changed it cause I didn't get any vacuum from the old one.Oh and I put gas in today and it didn't seem to starve for fuel when I took a sharp turn.I guess it's only when below half a tank but don't know why?

[pickupman6]

I would definately check the icm, it takes les than 10 seconds. Unplug hose frome dizzy, put finger over hole on hose index finger on right hand, and with left hand rev it up. U should hear rhe solenoid clicking and feel vacuum on the hose.
Like I said in an earlier post you should pull the fuel pump and inspect it. It only takes 30 minutes. I know it must be colder than a snowmans balls where your at, so that would be quite as easy as it sounds. But I've pulled the motor/trans out of an eagle talon tsi awd in the middle of jan in northern michigan when it was -10 - 0* out so it can be done.

[import racer]

Yeah I know I'll probably have to pull the pump out,just not looking forward to doing it.I'll check the icm out tomorrow if it's not raining.Might check tw sensor too.

[import racer]

So today I checked the tw sensor but couldn't get a steady reading.So I switched it with another one I had.I checked the other icm I put in for vacuum and none when I revved it up,then checked the wires going to it for power with my meter and got nothing.Don't know what to check next.

[import racer]

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z304/importracer1987/engine.jpg I took out the pump and the sock filter was covered in sludge so I took another pump with a clean filter and put that in,also noticed that the gas is at half way mark but my gauge says 3/4 so I guess that doesn't work right either .

[ecogabriel]

I don't think I have the stuff saved that came out of the black box.I went by the write up posted on here as to what to save.Do yo have a pic of this solenoid?

I have been working on the car yesterday; I'll take a look because I should have a working spare somewhere.

[import racer]

What does the A/T idle solenoid look like,I found some of the stuff out of the black box.Found 2 more icm's today unless they're a diff module.Is there a fuse that controls power to the icm.

[pickupman6]

Have you checked the other 2 wires to make sure you didn't hook your icm to the ac idle boost Solenoid wires( two sensors look the same but just different colors and they plug up the same) the at idle boost is the one hooked to another solenoid I believ the fast idle control solenoid, but then again I'm talking about an 87 honda magic box and yours is an 89. The fast idle has an orange wire and I think the at idle boost has a green wire.

[pickupman6]

If you have the icm hooked to the red and blk/ylw its wrong. The icm is the ylw and blk/ylw wires

[import racer]

Mine is ylw/grn and blk/ylw I just disconnected the harnest to the black boxes didn't take the wires off the solenoids.

[import racer]

Well since it was warmer out today I decided to try another fuel/temp gauge.It says 1/2 a tank of gas which is right but the temp gauge goes all the way to hot.When I unplug the sender unit it drops,Is it my sending unit or the gauge.Is there a way to check the sending unit.

[import racer]

Well I did some more checking and there is power to the icm,changed that to and I don't see any diff.Sorry eco couldn't find that speed sensor but I think one is 3/8 and one is 1/4,hope that helps.

[ecogabriel]

Well I did some more checking and there is power to the icm,changed that to and I don't see any diff.Sorry eco couldn't find that speed sensor but I think one is 3/8 and one is 1/4,hope that helps.

I found a speed sensor trying to get a spare cold advance solenoid for a photo. One connector is 1/4" and the other I suspect is slightly bigger (3/8" is way too loose)

And I could not find the f@#*& solenoid!!! I'll take another look.

[import racer]

Ok thanks man,I was checking the manual I downloaded and mine doesn't have some of the things it shows.I guess canadian models are diff.If I get some money this week gonna get some new plugs and coolant and see if that help any.

[import racer]

I think my rough idle is from a vacuum leak around intake mani,gonna see if I can borrow a vacuum gauge and see what I got.What should the vacuum be off the manifold,I figure around 20.

[pickupman6]

It should be around 18-22 on a good engine. Pinch the pcv hose and see if the valve clicks. If it doesn't replace it. Also pinch the vacuum hose to the brake booster to see if that evens out your idle.

[Rendon LX-i]

The cold advance solenoid is inside the black box.

However, from the postings I saw there is no black box. If you still have it, look inside. 86-87 have two identical solenoids (one is for the A/C booster, the other for the cold advance).
88-89s should have at least a third one (I believe it is for the intake manifold second plenum).

Testing them is easy; check continuity between the terminals. If there is no continuity they are dead. They can be energized by applying battery voltage to the terminals (they should click when doing so), but unplug the car's wiring from the solenoids first.

this what i was saying. i didnt mention there was 2 alike. but when i did my magic box delete i needed to keep my CAS in order for my car to idle correctly. not hard to test

[import racer]

Do you have a pic of what it looks like and how it gets hooked up.Rendon yours is an 86 and mine is an 89,so would they be the same or diff.I wish someone could show me these things they're talking about,FI cars are new to me.

[import racer]

Hey rendon ,how do I know which is which?

[ecogabriel]

The first picture in the link below is what the cold advance solenoid looks like; it is from a Prelude but it looks exactly the same like the ones I have in my black box.

http://mustardcat.brinkster.net/p3g/Engine/B21intaketoB20/B21intaketoB20.htm

[import racer]

Hey man I have 4 that look like that,one tested bad.how do I know which one is icm and which one is the cold advance solenoid.

[import racer]

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z304/importracer1987/Picture003-1.jpgSo what are these modules for.

[ecogabriel]

Those look like the solenoids I have been talking about. They may have the lower port in a slightly different position but they do the same thing.

You see the black rubber thing with the white cloth inside. When the solenoid is de-energized, one of the ports in the other side communicates with that one. Whatever it is connected to that solenoid will receive no vacuum but atmospheric pressure. Think second butterflies in the intake manifold; when the solenoid is de-energized they will remain closed.

Because of that, the connection of the hoses to the lower ports should be done with care. You will need the vacuum and wiring diagrams from the year your car/engine is. For 89s Dr Snooz posted his service manual.

Hope it helps

[import racer]

Is there a way to tell which is which,when looking at them they seem the same.I'm still looking for another eacv to try and see if that help the rough idle.

[import racer]

So I checked the online manual that snooze had a link to,and noticed that the ignition control solenoid and the bypass control solenoid valve look the same.How do I tell which is which,maybe I'm using the wrong one.

[pickupman6]

Don't think it really matters as long. As there's no vacuum coming off the second port with no power applied to the solenoid, it would be okay to use as the icm. I'm using the orange and blue solenoid where blue is the outside port going to the vacuum advance and the orange is going to manifold vacuum. That way its getting filtered air from the bottom black filter on the solenoid when its not activated. Once it activates the plunger inside the solenoid comes down and allows vacuum to go through the blue outer port. I don't know how the secondaries work so I can't help you there but you could still use any of the solenoids I would think, you would just have to move the filter and hose to the secondaries to get it working right if it needed vacuum when the solenoid was deactivated. I hope I'm making sense I suck at explaining stuff.

[pickupman6]

Those look like the solenoids I have been talking about. They may have the lower port in a slightly different position but they do the same thing.

You see the black rubber thing with the white cloth inside. When the solenoid is de-energized, one of the ports in the other side communicates with that one. Whatever it is connected to that solenoid will receive no vacuum but atmospheric pressure. Think second butterflies in the intake manifold; when the solenoid is de-energized they will remain closed.

Because of that, the connection of the hoses to the lower ports should be done with care. You will need the vacuum and wiring diagrams from the year your car/engine is. For 89s Dr Snooz posted his service manual.

Hope it helps

Also judging from the link in the other post( http://mustardcat.brinkster.net/p3g/Engine/B21intaketoB20/B21intaketoB20.htm ) it looks like the secondaries solenoid hooks up the same and that is exactly lice the solenoid I'm using for my icm

[pickupman6]

Gosh I can't spell today, *like

[Rendon LX-i]

BINGO thats the Little bitch i was fighting. My bad on not repling. but pickupman basicly said it all

[import racer]

So what you're saying is I can use either one but which wires go to the other one for the secondary valve.Also I could not find a cold advance solenoid,maybe mine doesn't have one.

[ecogabriel]

So what you're saying is I can use either one but which wires go to the other one for the secondary valve.Also I could not find a cold advance solenoid,maybe mine doesn't have one.

You can use any solenoid as long as they look like those in the photos. The only issue is how you hook up the vacuum lines.
I checked whether my A/C booster worked using the cold advance solenoid that was still working (A/C solenoid was toast). The boost vacuum system worked but I switched the hoses at the base so when I turned off the A/C the idle speed was still high. Switching the hoses solved the problem.
The little black thing at one end of the solenoid communicates one of the ports on the other side with the atmosphere (that is why they have that cloth thing inside.

Sorry for not getting right what you needed, and replying it late.

[import racer]

Yeah thanks but I still don't think that's my problem,I switch the icm with one that read good but from what pickupman said his is hooked up the opposite of mine.I hooked my up the way it was according to the write up on here.Can anyone clarify this.Still don't know about the cold advance solenoid rendon was talking about.

[import racer]

If I try to swap hoses to the icm,should I include the check valve with hose or leave it alone!

[pickupman6]

I don't use the check valve with my icm

[import racer]

So you don't need it,Do you have a pic of yours.

[pickupman6]

No and I have no way to post one either, sorry.

[import racer]

Well I printed off the diagram from the online manual of the icm hookup and ran mine that way,seems to idle better.still a little rough but alot better.Since it was nice out today I decided to flush the cooling system,after I put new antifreeze in I noticed my fan wasn't running.Checked the fan on the battery and it worked,so I guess the thermal switch in the rad is bad.I also changed the temp gauge sending unit with one from my old car,because I knew it worked.That one made the gauge go to hot as well.I did the check for the gauge as the manual said and it checked out ok.Do you think the two problems are related to each other.

[import racer]

bump!

[pickupman6]

Could be. Have you checked the fan relay? There shuld be continuity between a and b with battery + and - hooked to c and d. When you un plug the wire from the sending unit does the gauge drop? If you have a dvom or just a plain vom you could test it by checking resistance between the case and the terminal. Hang it over a pot of watersubmerging just the end that goes into the tstat housing till the threads are covered. Heat up the water and the resistance should decrease as the water gets hotter. If its cold and it has no resistance than the sensor is no good.

[import racer]

I have about a dozen of those relays and tried half of them an no difference.And like i said it always worked fine in my old car.Can't do much right now because it's freezing out.

[pickupman6]

I've seen old sending units go bad just from removing and replacing, you can test the fan switch the same way except it will just go from on to off when the temp reaches 190-210. Also about the relay, take it out and make sure you have power on one of the 4 terminals

[import racer]

How can you test for power when its plugged in.

[pickupman6]

Unplug it. If the key is on one of the 4 terminals on the car side will have power, if you jump the wires at the switch on the rad two of the terminals should have power.

[ecogabriel]

If you jump the wires at the switch on the rad two of the terminals should have power.

x2.

With the relay still installed and the ignition key in ON, your fans should turn on when jumping the fan switch in the radiator.

[import racer]

Thanks eco,I'll do that when it get warmer.Got to fix my wiper on the pass side too,guess the arm poped off.

[import racer]

So today I finally got the idle screw out,seemed to be sealed with some plastic in the threads.After digging it out with a pick it came right out.It was nasty so cleaned it and put back in but the car still idles rough.I still think I have a leak around intake gasket.Hopefully it will be fixed in spring as I'm changing engine and possibly B-series intake if I can find one complete.

[import racer]

Hey guys,so the other day put some new plugs in and it seems to have smooth out some.but today when i drove it the idle surges up and down,checked for codes and the only one i have is for the egr.does anyone have any idea why it's surging.

[pickupman6]

If you are talking about the up and down idle it could be air in the coolant that needs to be bled out or it could be the FIT (fast idle thermowax) valve on the back of the throttle body. Take the two phillips head screws out and remove the plate. While its surging, stick your finger in there to cover up the hole. If the surging stops you found the problem. Take a wide screwdriver and tighten the ring inside the valve. If you look in you will see the slots in it. I've heard a quarter works too.

[pickupman6]

Oh and that plastic you said was holdin your idle adjustment screw in was actually an o ring. If you didn't put a new one on there's nothing to keep it from backing back out. Also it could be leaking around the threads which is doubtful that's wahts causing your idle problems you could eliminate that possibility by sticking your finger over the screw to see if it stops. But my guess is the idle screw has backed out enough to cause the idle problem.

[pickupman6]

Oh I have a photobucket account now so I can upload pics and I haven't completely tucked away all the black box crap from when I swapped transmissions in my car if you want I can put those pics up. Its raining now so I can't take them but I can later if you want them..

[import racer]

Well when I got the screw out there was an o ring on the back side so I don't know what was keeping the screw from coming out.It still seems to have a vacuum leak somewhere and is hard on fuel.Could the problem be a bad dizzy.

[import racer]

So I have the egr blocked off,but want to just use the block off plate and remove the egr to clean it up.My question is do I need to leave the egr plugged in or can I take it out all together.

[pickupman6]

Well if you don't care about the cel just throw it in the trash.

[import racer]

Well the cel comes on anyway after driving for awhile anyway so that doesn't make a diff.So it won't cause a problem if it's unplugged then.