3G Diesel?? (20t2r TDI)

[bryan6732]

Not really sure where to post this, but since an engine swap is involved I think it fits in here.

I've been very much into Diesel lately, to be precise: Turbocharged Direct Injection with mechanical diesel pump.
It's very well tunable, has huge amounts of torque, is way more fuel efficient and with the fuel prices over here it's a great money saver.
Current prices about €1.65+/L for gas (8+ USD per Gallon) and €1.30/L for diesel (about 6,40 USD per Gallon).

At first I was thinking about a VW TDI engine because of the availability and support, but after some
research I found out about the 6G Civic/5G Accord/late 90s Rover 2.0 TDI engines (20t2r and 20t2n).
If I decide to go diesel, I'll take the 20t2r since that ones got a mechanical pump (20t2n has electronical).

With some nice turbo, intercooler and tuning of (the mechanical) fuel pump it'll be fun to drive and cheap as f***. :)

Anyone on here who's got some experience with these engines?

[BB_cuda]

Bryan,
I don't have the info you seek but definately share the want for diesel in a 3g. I have a 335D that flat hauls a$$. Unforetunately, here in the US diesel is more expensive than premium gasoline. I still come out on top once superior fuel econmy is taken into account. The difference between diesel and premium is down to 10 cents/gallon and i expect the two will cross over in the next month. I get 40 mpg going 70 on the highway. The freekin thing has 425 lb-ft of torque. Talk about passing with ease. Redline is about 5500 rpm.

[Dr_Snooz]

Sounds awesome! Definitely do the conversion and then post a write up here with lots of picssssss!

[bryan6732]

I dropped the 20t2r idea since I quickly found out it has the gear box on the other side of the engine bay, compared to the A20. I'm now researching the VW TDIs, which have the gearbox on the same side as the 20t2r, but they've got more support and are easier to get!

My favourite is the 2.5L 5cyl... I need it's dimensions to tell wether it fits in my engine bay or not.. :)

I'll try to keep you posted, but it won't be a fast project!


Bryan,
I don't have the info you seek but definately share the want for diesel in a 3g. I have a 335D that flat hauls a$$. Unforetunately, here in the US diesel is more expensive than premium gasoline. I still come out on top once superior fuel econmy is taken into account. The difference between diesel and premium is down to 10 cents/gallon and i expect the two will cross over in the next month. I get 40 mpg going 70 on the highway. The freekin thing has 425 lb-ft of torque. Talk about passing with ease. Redline is about 5500 rpm.

I think no-one has the info I'm looking for. That's also kinda what I like about it. Having the first (and therefore the only) 3g Accord TDI would be nice! :)
I'm kinda into odd things.. ;)

[Honda Man]

That would def be a good alternitive motor swap. Anything you find post quick. I'm going to keep watching this thread. Nice idea man!

[bryan6732]

Well I actually "stole" the idea from a friend.
He swapped a 1.9 TDI into his VW Scirocco MK2 a few months ago!

[2drSE-i]

Definitely a great idea. In for the project!

[cygnus x-1]

For parts availability in the US, the VWs are likely going to be the best. Unless maybe you could find a front drive tranny for a Cummins I4, but those engines are ungodly heavy.

The biggest question I think will be about the height; will it fit under the hood? If yes, then everything else is just execution (how's that for hand waving :lol:). I imagine the TDIs use a hydro clutch so you'll need to mount a master cylinder or figure out a cable bracket for the gearbox.

Sounds like a cool project.

C|

[bryan6732]

I haven't been thinking about the hood clearance, since a Scirocco has a quite low hood as well.
The thing I'm trying to find out is wether the longer 5 cilinder 2.5L TDI engine with tranny will fit between the strut towers.
Volvo used those engines in their 850 TDI, which has a 4 cm wider track than the 3G.

[ecogabriel]

What about the 1.9 TDI? wouldn't that fit? What figures does that engine produce (HP, TQ?) Turbo would give nice torque. Besides, it may be a quite lighter engine compared to a 2.5.

NO diesel Honda here in the US that I am aware of.

[bryan6732]

The 1.9 TDI is my second choice. I really like the sound of a 5 cylinder engine, and the diesel makes it even "worse".
Thereby, there are plenty Volvo 850s in The Netherlands, so the price is quite low.
The difference between 1.9 and 2.5 is roughly 50 HP stock and lots of torque... :lol:

EDIT: Looked it up:
2.5: 140 HP, 290 Nm torque
1.9: 90 HP, 210 Nm torque

[obdriver6]

Honda Accord Aerodeck TDI! I like the sound of that! DO IT! lol

[dieselgus]

I have been looking into this for quite some time myself (I would love to stick either an ALH or BEW 1.9 into my Accord. I miss my diesels very very much). From what I have figured out so far, your best bet is to buy an entire written off/heavily damaged donor car for your swap. One with severe damage from the B pillar back. You will be pretty much swapping everything mechanical from the firewall forward. It isn't going to be the easiest swap out there by any stretch and having some good reference points as far as how things are mounted will be rather handy. Also keep in mind that it is a heavier motor that is going in there you will be making changes to the front suspension to keep the car from becoming an overly nose heavy and poor handling pig.

It can be done I am certain of it. If I had more room in the shop at work and way more time on my hands I would already have a swap under way. With the right injector nozzles, ECU tune and slight turbo upgrade, one can easily get the BEW up into the 200HP/350 ft lbs range and still manage 50MPG.

[bryan6732]

Well, long time no update to this thread anymore, but the plan is still being designed.
So the first choice engine is the D5252T (R5 TDi) from the Volvo 850, V70 and S70, produced by Audi. I believe these engines were EDM only, but they're the same as some VW Transporter T4/5 engines. Big difference is the gearbox, which is shorter in the Volvo to fit it in the engine bay transversal (which obviously is what I need!)

I'm still kind of wondering about the fitment of this engine + tranny into the 3gee enginebay.
Some numbers:

Length D5252T: 544mm
Length tranny: 353mm
Total: 897mm (35.3149606 inch)

Track Volvo 850: 1520mm
Track 3gee: 1480mm
(difference of about 1.5 inch)

Will take some measurements of the engine bay of the Aerodeck tomorrow to see if it will be physically possible to do the swap!

EDIT: The D5252T won't fit, cause our engine bay is only 790mm width. So I'm missing more than 10 cm (4 inches)...
1.9 TDI will be the next goal!


Honda Accord Aerodeck TDI! I like the sound of that! DO IT! lol

The exact name is gonna be Honda Accord Aerodeck mTDi.. :)


I have been looking into this for quite some time myself (I would love to stick either an ALH or BEW 1.9 into my Accord. I miss my diesels very very much). From what I have figured out so far, your best bet is to buy an entire written off/heavily damaged donor car for your swap. One with severe damage from the B pillar back. You will be pretty much swapping everything mechanical from the firewall forward. It isn't going to be the easiest swap out there by any stretch and having some good reference points as far as how things are mounted will be rather handy. Also keep in mind that it is a heavier motor that is going in there you will be making changes to the front suspension to keep the car from becoming an overly nose heavy and poor handling pig.

It can be done I am certain of it. If I had more room in the shop at work and way more time on my hands I would already have a swap under way. With the right injector nozzles, ECU tune and slight turbo upgrade, one can easily get the BEW up into the 200HP/350 ft lbs range and still manage 50MPG.

Yeah I'm actually planning to find a wrecked 850 TDi somewhere, but that's not easy.
Other "problem" seems to be that people don't like to sell these cars or bring them to the junkyard.
You see them everywhere, and when they're sold the lowest mileage is around 400,000 km, which is pretty normal for these cars but I'm a bit hesitant to buy an engine/car with such numbers on the clock!

BTW, the fuel delivery will be done by a mechanical fuel pump (Verteiler Pumpe in German). So no such thing as chipping the ECU, but finetuning of the pump! :)

[bryan6732]

Oh, and if one of the moderators reads this, could you change the thread name to something like this:

Volkswagen 1.9 TDI swap research

The Rover engine idea had been dropped pretty quickly lol..
EDIT: The Volvo 850 TDI engine plan is also thrown into recycling bin.

Thanks! :)

[dieselgus]

Ahh mechanical pump. Very good. We used to do a lot of swaps to the bigger 11mm pump head on the 4cyl ALH/AHU motors. Add in some nice Fratelli Bosio nozzles and one was making some really nice (and cheap!) easy to add on power. Upgrade to a VNT17 turbo and you are set!


Just remember, with fluids that 5cyl motor alone weighs in at 489Lbs. No turbo, no transmission, etc. The Aseries motor come in at just over 300lbs. The change in weight over the front end will have an effect on your handling. And the effect won't be positive aside from better traction when hammering on it.

Have driven a T5 or two in my time with the I5 motor in it and it is a rather smooth and torquey engine. Not easy to get ahold of over here as they have many many thousands of KM on them along with untold hours.

[bryan6732]

Yeah I know about the weight, would've caused a headache as well! lol

But as you can read below, the I5 TDI won't fit in our engine bay so 1.9 TDI is the next goal!

[rjudgey]

Hmm I have a spare BMW 2.0 4 pot with gearbox and diff wonder how hard it would be to stick the rear frame on the back and bosh the engine in! lol! Would be interesting a lude with a 230bhp and 350lbft derv with RWD in a super light chassis!! Hmmmm!! The rear frame pretty much sits on a flat surface and has 4 bolting points I bet it wouldn't be too hard to fit it to any chassis biggest problem I reckon is to route the exhaust, and prop shaft, obviously mounting the enigne in the bay would be interesting but being 4 pot it's not too long although the gearbox is pretty lengthy!! Not to mention the whole drivetrain, and engine weigh as much as the car if not more! lol!