fuel issue? What is this sensor?

[kentwat]

I thought this thread would fix my issue.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76194

I had the code 1 and the car would stutter and bog when warm. I changed out the sensor and drove it until warm and it continued to hesitate when you step on the throttle to WOT. I sounds about like choked out flooded and after a few seconds will try to increase rpms. At idle it seems ok. But you punch it and the thing just bogs and tries to rev up. I did another survey of vacuum lines and I found a sensor with a broken vacuum. Can someone id it for me?
http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt273/kwat2008/3d6197a2.jpg
on the left side of the thermostat housing. Just a couple vacuum lines and no wires. I saw one goes to the pcv can on the firewall. I was thinking fuel pressure so I was going to check it but my fuel filter only has 2 hook ups. in and out no third for test? Car is all stock otherwise. About 40k on ignition parts. Thanks Kent

[ShyBoyCA6]

O2 sensor A

[kentwat]

I changed the 02 sensor out that is in the exhaust manifold and the code went away but it still stutters and bogs when warm.

[kentwat]

Just some info. I pulled the plugs and all of them were light tan and the 02 sensor end was light also. I'm going out to try and find that sensor in the stat housing above. I still think I need to check fuel delivery pressure etc..

[pickupman6]

That's just a ported vacuum switch aka thermo valve, it cuts the vacuum off to the charcoal can when the engine is cold. Once it warms up it allows excess fuel vapors int the intake manifold. I wouldn't worry about it I bet 90% of us don't have that hooked up.

[pickupman6]

Dang you're only an hour away from me

[pickupman6]

You don't by any chance have headers do you?

[ShyBoyCA6]

Having them crossed will cause the bogging

[kentwat]

Having them crossed will cause the bogging

Hum....The 2 metal open vacuum lines that were connected to it I just routed 1 to the other. Perhaps I should just plug both instead.

I don't have a set of headers btw. Yesterday I went to pullapart and they got rid of all 6 86-89 accords since the last time I was there. Talk about pissed.

[ShyBoyCA6]

Hmm never seen that sensor on mine... But it looks like the fan switch to me.. I dont think that belongs there or should I say that part doesnt belong to that car...the only thing I could say is check your coolant level.

[import racer]

I don't have one on my car either,looks like it's off a carbed car.

[pickupman6]

Have you jumped time. Kinda sound like it to me. I've seen them jump a tooth or two and it would still idle fine but when you go to take off it would just bog.

[pickupman6]

Nevermind, you said it ran fine when cold.

[kentwat]

I can drive it around as long as I don't punch the throttle. If I just use very slow throttle it gets around with no bogging etc. But if I stab the throttle it will bog an sputter while increasing rpm's very slowly. I was thinking today like it was acting as if is timing issue with vac advance. In the pick above I just plugged the 2 lines rather than looping them. That really made no change. All tips welcomed.

[Dr_Snooz]

When was your last tune up?

[kentwat]

plugs, wires cap, rotor, ~40k. Plugs are light tan. I haven't had my cap off. I was going to checking timing and cap tomorrow night. I need to get a fuel filter in the engine bay. Do the ones the dealers sell have the fuel pressure test port? I still haven't found the one in the back of the car. I haven't adjusted my valves either.

[Dr_Snooz]

You're 10k overdue on plugs. What is the gap on them? Wires, cap and rotor come due at 60k, but if you bought Autozone wires, then they were never really any good in the first place. What does your air filter look like? Check your cap and rotor. Check the resistance on your plug wires. They should all be consistent. There are a lot of things that could be causing what you're experiencing, from bad gas to bad filters to timing. Just have to do the sleuthing.

A lot of people think that when the CEL comes on, it means to go change the sensor in question. It doesn't. It means there is a problem in the circuit controlling that sensor. You have to proceed through the troubleshooting sequence listed in the manual to find out what's going on. EGR is the classic example here. People see a code 12 and go replace the EGR valve, which is expensive, and it doesn't solve the problem. The first thing you should check when you get a code 1 is the fuel pressure regulator. I would start with that and continue through the troubleshooting procedure until I was satisfied that everything is fine in that circuit.

[kentwat]

Thanks for info. I was unable to get it in the shop tonight. I just want to say those pdf manuals are great.

[Dr_Snooz]

The Honda manual is beyond excellent. I have 4 different manuals for my Chevy truck: factory, Haynes, Chiltons, factory manual for a different year. If I put them all together, I have a manual that's half as good as the Honda manual.

[kentwat]

OK so I put half a can sea foam through brake vacuum in manifold and half can in tank. After a day or so it started running like a champ. But it started acting up again same symptoms. So I check fuel pressure 31 vacuum connected and 39~40 disconnected. I then hooked vacuum back up and pinched return line and pressure increased.I'm putting a new filter on firewall since I've never replaced it in the 50k+ miles of owning it.Back to the book.

[kentwat]

Took it for a test drive after letting idle for 10 minutes and it ran like a champ. So tomorrow will tell.

[Dr_Snooz]

So are you thinking it was a fuel pressure problem or the fuel filter?

[kentwat]

My son is out with it today and I'll get a report. I'm thinking filter because in testing the regulator it all was within spec. I need to stop by the dealer and try and get a new thermovalve above. I finally found a picture of it.

http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt273/kwat2008/13se001_e0201.png

[kentwat]

Report: Still doing the same thing after full warm up. Tomorrow night I'll check the plugs cap, rotor, and put a fresh set of wires on it. I may just do plugs also. I'll hit the dealer also.

[Oldblueaccord]

Since you think its a fuel issue check and see if the return line is not pinched on that clip/bracket near the brake mastercylinder.

wp

[kentwat]

At first I was thinking fuel do to how it was acting. So I checked fuel pressure and replaced filter in engine compartment. When checking the fuel pressure one of the tests is pinching the return line and pressure went from 30 to 40 plus. So I think the return is ok. I was going to change the one in the tank but I couldn't find one in stock. Today it ran fine on 2 30 mile round trips so back to checking maintenance items.

[Dr_Snooz]

Did you ever go through the troubleshooting procedure for a code 1?

[kentwat]

No Snooz I haven't. It's harder when its not your daily driver. He didn't want it so I picked him up a 93 civic coupe with a d16z6. It runs out well and isn't beat too bad. Now I can get back to troubleshooting the Accord. It still has the same symptoms. So I'll start on the code 1 ts section and work from there. Thanks for input.

[Dr_Snooz]

I'm not badgering you (or at least that's not what I'm intending to do). Just trying to keep you from spinning your wheels is all. At least read through the procedure to get an idea of the kinds of things you want to be looking for. I've often found my problem by just reading the troubleshooting procedure.

[pickupman6]

Sorry to thread jack but I sent you a pm

[kentwat]

I went through and test o2 sensor and it checks good. Fuel testing. I did the pressure it was good. I changed out filter on firewall. I haven't removed fuel pump from tank to check sock. I'll pop the injector wires off tomorrow and check for any changes.

btw It isn't throwing code 1 any longer. If I ease the throttle it will accelerate just fine. But if I stab the throttle to wide open it will cough through the air filter but will eventually pull itself out of sputter. But if I'm doing about 70 and I stab throttle it will accelerate just fine. ????

[pickupman6]

Have you checked your timing? Maybe your va isn't working right? Check for vacuum leaks. Buy a couple of cans of brake cleaner and spray it all over your vacuum lines. If it starts to stumble you know you have a vacuum leak. Pinch off the one to the brake booster and take it for a ride and see if its still doing it.

[kentwat]

Thanks I'll do som spraying too. The vacuum advance idea has been in my mind also. It's just not consistent.

[pickupman6]

Might not be a bad idea to do a compression and leakdown test too

[kentwat]

I just checked injectors not change in idle. I pulled fuel pump and cleaned screen. I also checked fuel resistor and it checked out in spec also. Going for a test drive.

[kentwat]

Runs a bit smoother but didn't cure it. I did put a timing light on it and its hard for me to tell red but i saw 10 and another couple marks following. It is set at between or close to the last mark. I couldn't see a 15 though. The vacuum lines acted normal. It was too damn hot to get it loose. Going to superbowl party. Thanks for feedback.

[kentwat]

When I unplugged the injectors I noticed a small change in idle. Something I have been noticing which is new is that on startup I've been getting a bit of blue smoke. I wonder if I have leaking injectors and this is causing fouling of the plugs. I only pulled 1 spark plug a few weeks ago and it looked great. I wonder though what the other ones look like? Perhaps getting gas soaked on hot start and cleaning themselves? Plugs are coming out tonight. Anyone run the Bosch wires from Autozone? The duralast do not qualify IMHO. Thanks Kent

[pickupman6]

The tune up before last I ran the bosch 8mm wires. Never had a problem with them except the boots pulling off the the plug and the clip staying on the plug and the clip coming off the wire. I put a new clip on the one that pulled loose from the wire and I pulled the boots back and sprayed the wire with hairspray and slid the boot back down. Once the hairspray dries, the boot is there for good. If you get the bosch wire I would recomend bulling all the boots back and checking the crimps then using hairspray to stick the boots back. The best way to do that is to put a plug in the clip and slide the booy down to the right spot. Then just pull the plug out after the hair spray dries.

[Bluntman]

I had bought wires at Pepboys and had problems with the wire coming out of the clip on its own after a few months and it would develop a slight stutter on take off. Having traced it easily I got another set and one in a million the same thing happened over a couple months. So I switched to the Bosch and have never had any issues since and that was years ago.:cheers:

[kentwat]

Thanks for feedback. I pulled the plugs and they were a light tan. The gap was over .050. I got some mileage out of them. I put new plugs, wires on along with a rotor. I wish I would have bought a cap. Dummy. It sounded good on start up so we will see tomorrow.

[kentwat]

Seat of the pants dyno says I picked up about 10 horse. The Dr. called it earlier. Thanks for feedback. I thought it was fuel related and it turned out to be routine ignition maintenance. I'll tell ya though for $5 extra charge those Bosch wires make the duralast wires look like garbage.