ignition system question

[SladeHonda]

Ok having some rough idle problems so gonna try to smooth those out a bit. Ive got Taylor thundervolt 8.2 wires to put on, waiting on my NGK Irdium IX plugs to come in and Im going to get a MSD ignition coil blaster 2. What im wondering is the short wire in the taylor box is that the one to go from the distributor to the coil or what cause it has this big round cup like boot on one side and dont know how that hooks up to the coil if thats the cable for it .... HELP ME OUT??

[lostforawhile]

Ok having some rough idle problems so gonna try to smooth those out a bit. Ive got Taylor thundervolt 8.2 wires to put on, waiting on my NGK Irdium IX plugs to come in and Im going to get a MSD ignition coil blaster 2. What im wondering is the short wire in the taylor box is that the one to go from the distributor to the coil or what cause it has this big round cup like boot on one side and dont know how that hooks up to the coil if thats the cable for it .... HELP ME OUT??

put some pictures up and I can probably tell you, run plain old NGK resistor plugs in this engine, those fancy plugs are a waste on money on these, they seem to run best on the regular NGK plugs, you can go a little wider on the gap with the MSD coil. Are you talking about the taylor wire set has a big round boot on the coil wire? that boot would have gone over the original coil to keep out water, it may fit the msd coil, the wire is in the center of it.

[SladeHonda]

to bad i have already bought the plugs but ... heres the pic if I upload it correctly. But you are thinking of the right one neway

[lostforawhile]

to bad i have already bought the plugs but ... heres the pic if I upload it correctly. But you are thinking of the right one neway
no picture you have to use a host such as photobucket to put up pictures

[SladeHonda]

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u420/babyhuwe05/2012-04-18_18-03-16_456.jpg

How bout now i think i figured it out

[DBMaster]

I agree about the plugs. My car, being made in Ohio, actually came from the factory with Champion plugs. I have used Bosch, Bosch platinum, Autolite platinum, Denso, NGK, Champion, Split Fire (clearance item), and currently, E3. None have ever proved to provide increased performance or gas mileage. So, with that said, my preference would be "regular" platinum plugs if you want extended life (about 50K miles). I think most of the advertising related to spark plugs is pseudo-science and marketing hype.

Pardon my statements, but for me, the same goes for coils and wires. Beyond getting a good quality long-lasting wire (like NGK) I do not think aftermarket wires or coils will get you much beyond a psychological benefit. Flame me, if you will, but I stand by my opinion. I am still running and OEM coil and OEM-type wires.

[SladeHonda]

I appreciate all the comments I'm not one of those stupid people that get mad cause someone tells them something I'm jus tryin something's to hopefully help if they don't I want out of that much but at least I tried ya know ..... but thanks I'm still learning so again I appreciate all the opinions

[lostforawhile]

I agree about the plugs. My car, being made in Ohio, actually came from the factory with Champion plugs. I have used Bosch, Bosch platinum, Autolite platinum, Denso, NGK, Champion, Split Fire (clearance item), and currently, E3. None have ever proved to provide increased performance or gas mileage. So, with that said, my preference would be "regular" platinum plugs if you want extended life (about 50K miles). I think most of the advertising related to spark plugs is pseudo-science and marketing hype.

Pardon my statements, but for me, the same goes for coils and wires. Beyond getting a good quality long-lasting wire (like NGK) I do not think aftermarket wires or coils will get you much beyond a psychological benefit. Flame me, if you will, but I stand by my opinion. I am still running and OEM coil and OEM-type wires.
the msd work but to get the benefit of the better spark you really need the box, the multiple sparks at lower rpm have been proven many times to give a smoother idle and better performance, and the factory coil starts dropping off towards redline, the msd coils such as the gm type coil use a U core and are less prone to saturation at higher rpms, the factory coils also use a U design but the msd simply takes that another level higher, try to avoid the round canister coils, the design is dated and was really designed for lower rpm American type engines such as the older v8's, they have an inherent design flaw at higher rpms, the issue is the coil is basically an electromagnet, as the rpms increase, they tend to stay magnetized and the magnet field doesn't drop out between ignition pulses as needed, this causes a large drop off in spark output. the tendency of the coil to stay magnetized is called hysteresis. Coil makers have solved a lot of this issue with different shaped coils to help break the magnetic lines of force, The other advantage of MSD is the soft touch rev limiters, the factory cutoff on the FI cars is a fuel cutoff, and this causes a very lean condition at redline, they are basically an oh shit limiter, to stop the engine from grenading, the soft touch limit spark one cylinder at a time, and then refine that cylinder the next time around, it gives a very smooth rpm cutoff. of course if you have a carb you have no rev limiter anyway

[Oldblueaccord]

http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u420/babyhuwe05/2012-04-18_18-03-16_456.jpg

How bout now i think i figured it out


that looks like the coil wire to a 1st gen accord with the canister style coil. The boot kept the terminals dry.

wp

[DBMaster]

Lost, I have always thought that an ignition coil was basically a capacitor.

[SladeHonda]

So u saying the ignition box like a 6al is wen that stuff will help but before it want?

[Oldblueaccord]

Do a google search on CDI capacitor discharge ignition and IDI Inductance discharge ignition. Learn for yourself.


wp

[SladeHonda]

Do a google search on CDI capacitor discharge ignition and IDI Inductance discharge ignition. Learn for yourself.


wp

Ok so I looked them up I understand what the CDI does (thats like a MSD control) and from the reading its like it has Pros and Cons, but still has me a little confused on the IDI though and which one is better

[Oldblueaccord]

Well inductance is whats on your Honda now and on just about every car ever made. Nothing wrong with it at all just has some limitations just like CDI does. The biggest positive is its very very reliable and the spark has a longer duration.

If on your(any) stock system if you are going to change the coil do watch for the resistance. It could load the ignitor/pick up incorrectly and cause it to burn out.

wp

EDIT: http://www.gofastforless.com/ click the "How it works tab" under Ignition at the upper left. I always likes his explanation just took me a while to find this page again.

[SladeHonda]

Ok that makes alot of since so if you have these after market parts how do you get the right amount of fuel ratio that will burn .... better fuel injectors that produce more ... or Proper tuning ?? .... this ignition system stuff is tough i might need to go to the professionals for this one before I "F" something up LOL:omg:

[Oldblueaccord]

Well our cars are very efficient. I have a wideband O2 sensor and the EFI cars run very close to 14.7 most of the time with being a little rich at full throttle.


But remember efficient isn't always "more power". Our little Honda motors already put out 1hp per cu. inch so its harder to get more power esp on the cheap. Domestic V-8's, older ones, make maybe 170-200 hp on a 350 cu inch platform. Plenty of room for improvement.

There is a few builds on here, some natural aspirated and some forced induction to give you some ideas.

wp

[SladeHonda]

Well what i wanna know is will these help with gas efficiency and smoothing out the idle. Didn't think I would get a lot of HP gain but i want smoother starts and smoother take offs. Do you think better coil, wires and plugs would give me that ?? O and also new distributor cap and rotor?

[SladeHonda]

and what did you new O2 sensor do ?

[lostforawhile]

Lost, I have always thought that an ignition coil was basically a capacitor.
it's an electromagnet, you have a primary winding and a secondary winding, when current to the primary winding is interrupted, the magnetic field collapses and induces a high voltage in the secondary winding. The coil has to charge for every cylinder that fires, the higher the rpm, the less time the field has to charge and collapse,it also wants to retain it's magnetism instead of collapsing

Ok that makes alot of since so if you have these after market parts how do you get the right amount of fuel ratio that will burn .... better fuel injectors that produce more ... or Proper tuning ?? .... this ignition system stuff is tough i might need to go to the professionals for this one before I "F" something up LOL:omg:
there are excellent how to 's on here about doing ignition upgrades, if you are stock stick with he factory setup, upgrading your ignition really should be part of an overall plan, along with intake,exhaust, fuel system upgrades etc, by itself it doesn't do much, the msd boxes will give you a nice smooth idle though and the option of the rev limiter

[SladeHonda]

there are excellent how to 's on here about doing ignition upgrades, if you are stock stick with he factory setup, upgrading your ignition really should be part of an overall plan, along with intake,exhaust, fuel system upgrades etc, by itself it doesn't do much, the msd boxes will give you a nice smooth idle though and the option of the rev limiter

O I'm planning out everything I plan on doing to my car. I have some more big stuff to do first. Have to get the trans rebuilt which is the biggest and finish finding and fixing the oil leaks which i think I'm on my last one (replacing the rear main) at least hopefully .... seeing as there is not any CAI's I'm making my own and got the plan on the header back exhaust. The ignition stuff was what i was planning after those are taking care of.

Would I need better fuel injectors to go along with the (new distributor cap and rotor, new wires and plugs, new coil and MSD 6AL ignition )

If all those were done would that be a good setup i can expect good gains from cause that's the setup I'm thinking about doing ASAP

[Oldblueaccord]

and what did you new O2 sensor do ?

Well a wide band O2 sensor just has more resolution I guess best way to say it. So you can see how your engine is running. its and after market thing I bought.

I think the ignition upgrade would smooth out the idle,well the multi spark ones, but I don't think you will see much on a stock car. I don't know if you would even see better MPG out of it.


wp

[SladeHonda]

Ok cool well ima do the trans first since its the most expensive and no need to have extra power that I cant use .... Then Ima open up the engine with a CAI that ima start to make immediately since it will take some time to do (hope thats not to bad, been reading the how to on it) then the header back exhaust and the ignition stuff next .... Thanks for the incite my man