Help! Oil light is on!

[elarson88]

Hi. So I did an oil change on my new car the other day. There is definitely the right amount of oil in the engine (3.5 liters) I used 5w30 "high mileage engine" 1/2 synthetic. The car Has just over 250,000 kms. It ran fine before this. The first time I started it after the oil change there was a plume of blue smoke. Now when it warms up and the idle drops below 2000 rpm there is the oil light on. While driving, the light will go off, or flash, past 2000 and come back on solid after. Does this mean high or low oil pressure? The only thing I can think of is I have a pretty bad valve cover leak right now. Could this cause the problem? Hopefully it's a quick fix because I like the car and want to get it fixed up. But my main reason for buying it was the engine ran good, the body is average at best. The car is an 87 accord hatch. 2.0 carbed model. Thanks for your help!

[ShyBoyCA6]

Holy fuck dude 3.5 liters is to much! this engine is a 2.0 liter. 4 quarts should do fine.

[dieselgus]

4 quarts> 3.5L (3.7854L to be exact)

Sure you have the filter on there good and snug?
Oil bung is tight/not leaking?
When you took the old filter off, was the rubber gasket still on the top of it? (Have seen it exactly twice where the old gasket on top of the filter stayed on the filter housing. This will leak when you spin the new filter on).

With that many km, I would be looking at a good 5w40, non synthetic. No point in running synthetic in a motor that is getting up there, there really isn't much benefit vs cost in doing so.

[Hauntd ca3]

5w40 is to light an oil for 1/4 million miles.
20w/50 would be closer to the mark.
the 5w/40 will be far to thin when cold, hence the smoke on start up and will thin out to much when warm.
a dripping tappet cover wont hurt the oil pressure, just consumption.
use some good old castrol gtx 20w/50 or similar and should be cool

[elarson88]

Holy fuck dude 3.5 liters is to much! this engine is a 2.0 liter. 4 quarts should do fine.
LOL! I wish it only took 2 liters, oil changes would be cheap!

Ok so I will change the oil to 20w/50. Do you guys think I will be fine until the next oil change, or should this be done immediately? I don't want anything to blow up here!

I think the filter is on properly, I was going mostly by feel though as it's hard to see on these carbed models. ( I don't have a hoist, just jack and stands )

[Hauntd ca3]

without a gauge , you wont know how much pressure you have.
and since most oil pressure light sensors are set at 5 or 6 psi you are running a risk of bearing damage and stuffing the motor.
so i'd change the oil as soon as possible. you should not have to change the filter, they dont hold much oil so cross contamination isnt really a problem.

[vteckiller]

LOL! I wish it only took 2 liters, oil changes would be cheap!

Ok so I will change the oil to 20w/50. Do you guys think I will be fine until the next oil change, or should this be done immediately? I don't want anything to blow up here!

I think the filter is on properly, I was going mostly by feel though as it's hard to see on these carbed models. ( I don't have a hoist, just jack and stands )

just check oil level for oil consumption frequently. i wouldn't rush to change the oil again if its not leaking from the thin oil you have in there.. generally as a rule of thumb ive used thin oil in winter, thick oil in summers.. just watch the oil level.. also maybe your oil sensor is bad/old, did you accidently pull the oil sensor wire off the oil sensor? and be careful with them things to not over-tighten them and crack your oil mount(housing) as i did this and it was a headache.. luckily though i got one from the junk yard, and a new gasket from honda.. honda is the only place that makes these oil housing gaskets.. mine was $6.80 no tax in oregon. hope this helps..

[lostforawhile]

the oil pressure sender on this car is only rated at 2 pounds, so you basically have no oil pressure, that oil is way too thin for one thing, don't drive it if the light is coming on

[A18A]

don't drive it if the light is coming on

this

[lostforawhile]

in order to check the oil pressure you need a basic oil pressure gauge, you can't just screw it into the hole where the pressure switch is,as it's 1/8 bsp not 1/8 npt like most fittings. I will try to look up the adapter part number from MSC, they aren't very much. If I can scrounge up an old oil pressure gauge I have tons of hose, I can send you the stuff needed , I know I have a number of beat up gauges that still read right...........somewhere in my crap........with pressure this low, you need to check your pressure with something like a 2050

[Dr_Snooz]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you used a Fram filter. If so, throw it out immediately and replace it with a Wix or a Mobil1 or something decent. This website (http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml) offers some good info on choosing oil filters. Like everyone else has said, your oil is a little thin, but choosing oil weight is mostly a function of ambient temperature. In Alberta where it's super cold, that might be okay. Just check the chart in the owner's manual.

Are you getting any other symptoms of low oil pressure like tapping at idle, clattering on startup, etc? If the oil filter fixes the problem, then I would say start budgeting for an engine rebuild. You probably have an existing low pressure situation that is being exaggerated by the crappy Fram filter. Getting a better filter will get the pressure up enough to turn off the light, but not enough to be optimal for the engine bearings. In the meantime, put in some Slick 50 and run a heavier weight oil. I would also recommend installing a proper oil pressure gauge in the dash. The light is not enough. Once you get the gauge on, you will know a lot more about the condition of your engine.

[lostforawhile]

I've got him a wix filter in the package I'm sending him, if the car is losing oil it could also be something as simple as a leaking oil pump seal or or a leaking filter base gasket, or possibly even the pressure regulator in the oil filter base is stuck open partly, it's not unheard of them to get sticky and stay closed causing a high oil pressure issue, they can also do the opposite, the sliding valve will gum up really bad if the oil wasn't changed right,thats an easy fix, a few dollar gasket, which is going to probably fail soon anyway, and an hour or so under the car if he hasn't done it before. it would be something to look into if the oil pressure is low, it can make a good engine look like it has worn bearings

[AccordEpicenter]

Id change the oil and use the wix filter. You really need to go to 20w50 conventional oil and see if the oil light goes off. Even if the oil light goes off Id bet the engine is getting pretty loose internally. You can try switching oil filter bases with the relief valve in them for another but I doubt thats going to solve your problems... its a last case scenario thing.

[lostforawhile]

Id change the oil and use the wix filter. You really need to go to 20w50 conventional oil and see if the oil light goes off. Even if the oil light goes off Id bet the engine is getting pretty loose internally. You can try switching oil filter bases with the relief valve in them for another but I doubt thats going to solve your problems... its a last case scenario thing.

I figured that might be something to look at if it shows low pressure before condemning the engine, I seem to remember sending a base to someone where the spring had actually broken in half

[ecogabriel]

5W30 sounds way too thin for that car. In my 1986 user manual, the most common oil weights were 10w40 and 20w50.... anyway, they have taken care of you already.
Please post updates.

EDIT: did I see a FRAM oil filter in that thread???
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1093974#post1093974

Dr_snooz was right (or he read the other thread).... mmmm...

[elarson88]

Please post updates.

EDIT: did I see a FRAM oil filter in that thread???
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1093974#post1093974



I will be changing the oil to 20w50 as soon as I get the chance. It's parked at my work so probably Monday or Tuesday. It's a motomaster filter in there now. Unfortunately these are made by fram so this will be changed as well. Only problem I face is that the oil drain plug was stripped by the previous owner. I have an oversize in there now but I'm a little worried about there not being enough threads to grip it next time. I have thought about one of those rubber expansion plugs but can't seem to find anywhere that sells them...

[ecogabriel]

You can re-thread it to a larger size if you can get the proper tap and a plug to matcha tap. I believe Honda's thread is 14mm x 1.5mm, and there are plugs in 16mm through I do not remember the thread pitch.

Check what you can get over there; I got the same problem with my wife's camry, and went from 12x1.25 to 14x1.25. If you are comfortable with using taps, that would be the way to go.

You may probably tap it while installed (If you have enough clearance) by covering the tap with grease so the metal shavings would stick to it. However, I removed the oil pan when I did mine to be perfectly sure that no shavings would remain.

An alternative that may be even better is to get one of those quick drain plugs,

http://www.amazon.com/Fram-SD1-SureDrain-Access-Change/dp/B000AMW0K6
http://www.qwikvalve.com/fumoto-f-106-valve.html

Check rockauto.com; they also carry the plugs you are looking for (search under tools and universal parts)

[lostforawhile]

I will be changing the oil to 20w50 as soon as I get the chance. It's parked at my work so probably Monday or Tuesday. It's a motomaster filter in there now. Unfortunately these are made by fram so this will be changed as well. Only problem I face is that the oil drain plug was stripped by the previous owner. I have an oversize in there now but I'm a little worried about there not being enough threads to grip it next time. I have thought about one of those rubber expansion plugs but can't seem to find anywhere that sells them...

check with summit racing, you can get an oil plug repair insert designed to fix stripped pan threads right on the car

[lostforawhile]

cancel that if you have an oversize plug already the timesert kits won't work. It's not that hard to do a pan if it comes down to it, or you can get one of those tubes that sucks the oil out of the dipstick

[Dr_Snooz]

it could also be something as simple as a leaking oil pump seal or or a leaking filter base gasket, or possibly even the pressure regulator in the oil filter base is stuck open partly

It wouldn't be a bad idea to check the pressure relief valve and the base gasket while he has it apart, but it would be highly unlikely for those things to fail immediately following an oil change. If you have an FI engine, then the easiest way to get to the filter base is to remove the air cleaner box and go in from the top. You can actually see what you're working on if you peer through the gaps in the intake runners. LOL. I couldn't do anything from below. It was impossible to see and it was so tight I couldn't get any leverage on my wrenches.


Dr_snooz was right (or he read the other thread).... mmmm...

I only know things because I've broken so much stuff. On my last engine, I bought a Purolator oil filter and it exacerbated an existing low pressure condition. I realized from that experience that the quality of your oil filter makes a difference to the health of your engine. Buy good quality oil filters and you'll get a lot more life out of your engine.

[ShyBoyCA6]

wtf? last time i post and drink:beer:

[dieselgus]

yup. Same here. Drinking and posting=iffy info lol.

Mind you, in the winter I would use 10w40 just due to the fact that unless it is plugged in, it will be a pretty sluggish crank at -33C. 20w50 for high mileage, stay away from Fram (had great luck with both Purolator and Wix over the years in my gassers. The diesels always got Mahle filters though. Would love to do a drop in cartridge style remote filter. Maybe when I rebuild an engine for this thing I will look into machining up an adaptor plate and running one.)

[elarson88]

It wouldn't be a bad idea to check the pressure relief valve and the base gasket while he has it apart, but it would be highly unlikely for those things to fail immediately following an oil change. If you have an FI engine, then the easiest way to get to the filter base is to remove the air cleaner box and go in from the top. You can actually see what you're working on if you peer through the gaps in the intake runners. LOL. I couldn't do anything from below. It was impossible to see and it was so tight I couldn't get any leverage on my wrenches..

So today I changed the oil again with castrol gtx 20w50 and a Wix (Napagold) filter. The car is having the same issues as before, except now the light comes on below about 1500 rpm versus 2000 before and flashes above 1500. Im going to guess that means that the pressure has increased slightly, but not enough.

My engine is carbed, so I do not see any easy way to get to the oil filter base. From underneath seems impossible, I can't even really see the filter base without the filter on.

I want to test the pressure with a gauge. Does anyone have a picture of where to connect it to? I'm really hoping its just a bad sensor :violin:

[lostforawhile]

So today I changed the oil again with castrol gtx 20w50 and a Wix (Napagold) filter. The car is having the same issues as before, except now the light comes on below about 1500 rpm versus 2000 before and flashes above 1500. Im going to guess that means that the pressure has increased slightly, but not enough.

My engine is carbed, so I do not see any easy way to get to the oil filter base. From underneath seems impossible, I can't even really see the filter base without the filter on.

I want to test the pressure with a gauge. Does anyone have a picture of where to connect it to? I'm really hoping its just a bad sensor :violin:

the top of the filter base, just rip the rotted rubber boot off of the pressure switch, and you'll see you can get a wrench on it, it's accessible from below

[lostforawhile]

you'll need the adapter to screw into the base as it's not 1/8 npt it's bolted directly to the back of the block the filter screws onto it

[elarson88]

Ok so I took some time to listen closely to the engine and it is making a tapping noise. I don't think that the filter base is going to be the problem. I don't want to but I'm seriously considering selling the car and looking for one that I can get on the road sooner. It just seems beyond my mechanical ability to fix this, and I can't justify spending $100's of dollars at a shop to fix a car I only spent $350 for... If anyone can convince me otherwise lets hear it!

[Dr_Snooz]

At this point, you are going to be into some money, I think. A tapping noise at idle would tend to mean that the oil pressure is low and the engine is grinding itself to pieces. You can try to salvage it, but you're going to be pulling things apart. The filter base would be the first thing to remove so you can check the relief valve. After that you would remove the oil pan to check if the pickup tube is clogged. You'll also be getting under the timing belt cover to check the condition of the oil pump. You've probably already done a lot of damage and you could very well spend a great deal of time and money fixing the problem, only to find that you have a smoking car or a new rod knock. So that's what you're up against. These cars are well worth restoring, but only you can say whether your car is worth spending money on.

It doesn't make sense to me that you would do an oil change and on the next startup the car would blow blue smoke. Maybe you should describe what all was involved in that oil change. Unless you poured the oil in the carb, it shouldn't have done that.

[lostforawhile]

is it blue smoke or does it smell like coolant? one thing you need to check these cars have a coolant passage in the carb, if the base gasket goes bad it can suck coolant right into the intake manifold

[elarson88]

Well I had the air filter cover off and could kinda see into the carb. Looked clean, no sign of coolant. The smoke smelled like oil, not coolant. It was blue for sure, not white that would indicate coolant right? It's weird, after the oil change, I pulled it out of the shop, it was fine. Went to go start it up a few hours later and that's when the cloud of smoke appeared and the light started coming on. I know I did the oil change properly. I've changed my own oil for years. I've since pulled it in and out of the garage a few times, but no extended driving for fear of more damage. It doesn't smoke like crazy every time I start it now, just a little sometimes. The idle once warm seems rough. About 800 rpm which seems normal, but rough like something's not quite right. I don't know, maybe I'll try to pull the filter base and oil pan if I get under there and it looks doable. If not, look for a for sale thread on here soon. If I can't keep it I would at least like it to go to someone who won't just scrap it or drive it into the ground...

[lostforawhile]

you might have two different situations going on at once,low oil pressure and bad valve stem seals, the valve stem seals are a project you can do at home, most of the time there is an air holding tool you use compressed air with, but there is another trick with nylon rope which requires no air, and is easy to do, I've done it myself and it works,bad valve stem seals will account for the smoking on startup

[ecogabriel]

you might have two different situations going on at once,low oil pressure and bad valve stem seals, the valve stem seals are a project you can do at home, most of the time there is an air holding tool you use compressed air with, but there is another trick with nylon rope which requires no air, and is easy to do, I've done it myself and it works,bad valve stem seals will account for the smoking on startup

Done the nylon rope trick on my Civic; works perfect.

[elarson88]

Hmm well the oil pressure is the serious issue so I'll see if that's doable first, and then I'll look into the valve stem seals.

[Dr_Snooz]

Is this the first oil change since you bought it? I wonder how much Motor Honey you drained out of the crankcase when you changed it. You might have gotten scammed by the PO. They had a real beater on their hands, but with enough duct tape, chewing gum and Motor Honey, they managed to pass it off as something other than scrap metal.

[lostforawhile]

if the engine is bad don't scrap it yet, there is someone on here someone that will sell you a good used motor, it's not hard to change one at all on these cars

[elarson88]

That was the first oil change I had done on it. It definitely won't be getting scrapped. If I do sell I will wait for it to be to someone on here. It's too bad there's no forum members near me. I've never done any serious engine work, let alone change an engine!

[ecogabriel]

if the engine is bad don't scrap it yet, there is someone on here someone that will sell you a good used motor, it's not hard to change one at all on these cars


That was the first oil change I had done on it. It definitely won't be getting scrapped. If I do sell I will wait for it to be to someone on here. It's too bad there's no forum members near me. I've never done any serious engine work, let alone change an engine!

Why don't you download the service manual for the car from here, and see what removing and installing an engine is about? If you have a place to work, can get hold of a engine hoist, and follow instructions/directions to the letter, it is a doable job.

[lostforawhile]

hey I sent that stuff again via USPS, I sent it the first time from work which involved filling out four pages of declaration forms, then we didn't cross a T or dot an I because it came back as rejected by customs, don't be surprised if the box says Happy Birthday, according to what I told the post office I'm sending you car parts as a birthday present. I don't know why it's so crazy, it used to be like sending stuff here shipping to there,now they act like you are sending a package to a war zone in Afghanistan. I grew up on Lake Erie, and it was no big deal to take a day trip to your side over the lake, if you saw an official you talked about fishing and the weather a bit and they waved you through, now you might be gunned down. :dunno: