does anyone here own a protrator?

[como 2nd gen civic]

hello all, i'm still looking for some data about the clutch if anyone could help me by measuring the angel of the clutch linkage lever on the transmission with the clutch pedal fully depressed inside the car that would really help me. I'd like to know the total number of degrees of travel at the end or the trans side linkage arm and the ending degree, (like if you held a 180 deg protractor vertically, with the round side facing the passenger side of the car facing and the center at the pivot point of the linkage arm). Alternately somebody could measure the distance from ground to the end of the clutch linkage lever on the trans with the clutch pedal on the ground, but then differences in suspension heights could alter car to car comparisons.

Thanks in advance, let me know if my request makes sense!

Also if anyone else w a 3g 5 speed lives close to columbia mo, we could meet up and then i could just measure the number of degrees of travel and end point of degree on your car, it should take like 5 min. Thanks again.

[como 2nd gen civic]

hello ello llo llo o o o

[lostforawhile]

if you are trying to adjust it there is a simple procedure, I would get you the angle but no one to press the pedal while I'm measuring

[como 2nd gen civic]

yeah, i know how to adjust the clutch cable, but that only works if nothing is bent like the clutch pedal assembly or the trans side actuator arm. On older cars nothing is off the radar as far as problems go and i'm just trying to do as though a diagnosis as possible before i start spending money. but thanks for replying.

maybe i could mail you a stick! :)

[lostforawhile]

yeah, i know how to adjust the clutch cable, but that only works if nothing is bent like the clutch pedal assembly or the trans side actuator arm. On older cars nothing is off the radar as far as problems go and i'm just trying to do as though a diagnosis as possible before i start spending money. but thanks for replying.

maybe i could mail you a stick! :) I seriously doubt the clutch pedal is bent, I've never seen the arm bent on these either, the best bet would be to find a picture of one and compare it to a picture of yours, the clutch cable would have broke long before you bent the pedal on this car

[como 2nd gen civic]

i know its not generally a likely thing, but i'm just trying to rule out anything being bent or the cable being stretched before i order a new pressure plate and pull off the transmission. I think a faulty pressure plate is the most likely thing for the symptoms (in gear the car accelerates fine, but shifting is rather hard to do, and totally impossible with the engine running and the clutch pedal on the floor if the car is at a full stop; the car creeps, like the clutch pedal never makes the pressure pate pull the friction disk off the flywheel). but the previous owners replaced the clutch cable themselves in an attempt to fix this problem, but adjusted it so that it was always putting pressure on the pressure plate/clutch linkage, so i'm trying to rule out 1. the new (but probably thrashed) clutch cable and 2. this low amount of tension being applied on the linkage over a 6 month period bending anything. getting the angle of the trans. side clutch linkage arm with the clutch engaged and disengaged is the only was i see of doing this besides pulling stuff apart. I was hoping that someone had run though diagnostic step like this before for this problem or that someone could take measurements of a working car, and add them to the 3gee knowledge base.

[Dr_Snooz]

You'll be happier (and wealthier) if you just adjust it properly. As long as the engagement feels good and it's releasing fully, the arm can be pointing at the sky and it won't matter. There are only two things that could be wrong from what you describe. One, the clutch disk is cooked from never disengaging properly or two, the cable is stretched beyond usefulness. Neither of those problems is going to have anything to do with clutch arm angles. Try adjusting the cable first and see where that leaves you. If you still have problems you can keep looking from there.

[como 2nd gen civic]

snooz, as i stated I've already adjusted the clutch cable. and the clutch disk being fried wouldn't generate symptoms like these. the pressure plate being thrashed would as would a stretched clutch cable or a bent clutch pedal bracket. I was hoping someone could take a few min to collect this data as then we would have a simple and definite test that would take less than a minute to verify a stretched clutch cable that wouldn't involve removing anything from the car but it's starting to look like no one (other than myself) is interested in this right now.

[lostforawhile]

another issue you may likely have is a throwout bearing or throwout bearing clip failure,if the clutch was adjusted too tight this could definitely be an issue, the wire clip coming off or bending or breaking will give the symptoms of a bent arm or stretched cable,

[A18A]

pedal box assemblies do fail. i think it was twoloud who had a (probably pretty heavy) clutch in his car and he bent the whole pedal assembly. so I wouldn't rule that out for being a problem if everything else checks out fine.

[Oldblueaccord]

snooz, as i stated I've already adjusted the clutch cable. and the clutch disk being fried wouldn't generate symptoms like these. the pressure plate being thrashed would as would a stretched clutch cable or a bent clutch pedal bracket. I was hoping someone could take a few min to collect this data as then we would have a simple and definite test that would take less than a minute to verify a stretched clutch cable that wouldn't involve removing anything from the car but it's starting to look like no one (other than myself) is interested in this right now.

I measured 5 inches from the bottom of the adjuster bracket to the far end of the pivot arm with the clutch up (engaged)


wp

[como 2nd gen civic]

hmmm, i just checked and I've got just under six inches from the bottom of the adjuster bracket to the end of the arm. ill have to check the arm to see if its bent and the adjuster bracket too.

[Oldblueaccord]

I have pictures PM me a public e mail and I will send them to you I don't have a working imageshack account atm. They don't really help I cant get straight on it so the camera doesn't show the angle but it is slight 10 degrees at the most.

I would keep working on the adjustment so it gets into 1st and doesn't slip. Even mine, which is very old of course, doesn't go into 1st very well at idle unless I am rolling slightly.

I would also make sure the cable is attached at the valve cover it helps make it more precise.



wp

[Dr_Snooz]

snooz, as i stated I've already adjusted the clutch cable. and the clutch disk being fried wouldn't generate symptoms like these. the pressure plate being thrashed would as would a stretched clutch cable or a bent clutch pedal bracket.

Maybe I'm not understanding the question then. Everything you describe sounds like a clutch that needs adjusting. What am I missing?

[como 2nd gen civic]

well, the fact that i re-adjusted the clutch cable correctly already :). But as far as the clutch disk vs pressure plate + bent assembly, if the clutch disk was worn or damaged, the clutch would "slip" when it was engaged, like if you were to accelerate quickly, the RPMs would increase, but not the speed of the car. Once in gear, my car accelerates fine, but acts like the clutch never fully disengages, so i think the normal troubleshooting process would be:
1. check/adjust the clutch cable
2: remove and measure clutch cable to check for stretching
3. inspect pedal box/ clutch linkage for damage (but really, only because these are old cars, and its impossible to tell whats happened to them in their long lives)
4. pull of the trans to inspect the clutch assembly.

I'm trying to combine steps 2 and the 3 with a simple non-component removal check of measurements, but I don't have access to a functioning car to gather data from.

If i had this data, I would know where the problem lay, and could order parts without taking my car apart.

Anyway this is my last week of school, finals and all, so I don't have time to pull it apart this week, but next week I'll figure out whats going on and take some more pre and post repair measurements and post them here. Hope this helps explain what I'm trying to do.

[Dr_Snooz]

well, the fact that i re-adjusted the clutch cable correctly already :).

Let me state outright what I've been trying to hint at diplomatically for this entire thread:

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/129176261037863634.jpg

The process of adjusting your clutch ends when the symptoms you are describing disappear. Adjust your clutch.

[lostforawhile]

you need to loosen the cable adjuster until you can deflect the cable about a 1/2 inch to one side with your finger, the cable SHOULDNT be tight, and Snooze I didn't need the image of fat Elvis in a jock strap in my head ughhhh

[Oldblueaccord]

well, the fact that i re-adjusted the clutch cable correctly already :). But as far as the clutch disk vs pressure plate + bent assembly, if the clutch disk was worn or damaged, the clutch would "slip" when it was engaged, like if you were to accelerate quickly, the RPMs would increase, but not the speed of the car. Once in gear, my car accelerates fine, but acts like the clutch never fully disengages, so i think the normal troubleshooting process would be:
1. check/adjust the clutch cable
2: remove and measure clutch cable to check for stretching
3. inspect pedal box/ clutch linkage for damage (but really, only because these are old cars, and its impossible to tell whats happened to them in their long lives)
4. pull of the trans to inspect the clutch assembly.

I'm trying to combine steps 2 and the 3 with a simple non-component removal check of measurements, but I don't have access to a functioning car to gather data from.

If i had this data, I would know where the problem lay, and could order parts without taking my car apart.

Anyway this is my last week of school, finals and all, so I don't have time to pull it apart this week, but next week I'll figure out whats going on and take some more pre and post repair measurements and post them here. Hope this helps explain what I'm trying to do.

Did you get my email with the pictures?



wp

[Dr_Snooz]

I think I scared him away. Sorry.

[pickupman6]

Oh come now timmy, we know you laughed at that.