View Full Version : 4x100 conversion dilemma. AHHHHH!
Hazwan
05-05-2012, 09:36 PM
Okay so I've decided that I really could use some new set of wheels. Except the gay 4x120 pattern is gonna be a pita to find some new wheels for it (N)
So now I have the option to convert them to the commonly used 4x100 pattern by:
Converting to newer 2g Civic/Accord Hubs
Redrill the current hubs
Spacer/adapter
First option is the best since I would have newer and better brakes while I'm at it but they're also the most expensive.
Redrilling is not a bad idea, being the cheapest among them all. I know some people have done it except I'm not sure how exactly its being done? I mean how can I trust them getting them done/centered properly? Obviously I don't want them to be off and vibrate like hell.
Spacer/adapter is the easiest but still doesn't make any sense since they gonna cost about the same as the hub swap so its out.
Opinions?
Ichiban
05-06-2012, 09:42 AM
since you have to take the hubs off to machine them, I'd just do the swap. A dial indicator can be used to detect the exact center of the part, then you use the table on the milling machine to locate each hole if you were going to be re drilling.
Legend_master
05-06-2012, 10:49 AM
Okay so I've decided that I really could use some new set of wheels. Except the gay 4x120 pattern is gonna be a pita to find some new wheels for it (N)
So now I have the option to convert them to the commonly used 4x100 pattern by:
Converting to newer 2g Civic/Accord Hubs
Redrill the current hubs
Spacer/adapter
First option is the best since I would have newer and better brakes while I'm at it but they're also the most expensive.
Redrilling is not a bad idea, being the cheapest among them all. I know some people have done it except I'm not sure how exactly its being done? I mean how can I trust them getting them done/centered properly? Obviously I don't want them to be off and vibrate like hell.
Spacer/adapter is the easiest but still doesn't make any sense since they gonna cost about the same as the hub swap so its out.
Opinions?
I agree with option 1. Re-drilling the hubs sounds very iffy to me, centering would have to be spot on. I say spend the money needed for the new setup, and be done with it. May be easier to get parts for in the future as well.
amirul
05-06-2012, 02:36 PM
if you want to change to pcd 100,the better way is to change the hub. but if you want to drill the hub,i think you better drill to pcd 114.3. there's will be extra choice,spec and oldskool rim than pcd 100. to converting spacer..hmm..must be the thick one.so it wont easily crack but need to order because i don't think the 120 to 100 spacer already in the market
MessyHonda
05-06-2012, 03:08 PM
can you try to find the parts at a local junkyard?
PDXAccord79
05-06-2012, 06:11 PM
You can do spacers but then your tires aren't going to clear without modification to the fenders. They'll stick out at least 2cm further than they do now if you can even find them.
Redrilling will work if you have a blank drum for the back but based on how the front hubs are set up I don't see you having a lot of luck with drilling the fronts. The rotor bolts up behind the hub at 4 points and the lugs stick out at the other 4. There's not much free space there to mess with bolt pattern.
Your best option is going to be the 4 lug front/rear disc conversion that 79cord has done. All parts come off of cars that you should be able to find in the yard. Doing this also puts the rotor on the outside of the hub which saves $50 worth of pressing if you need to replace the rotor in the front. Link action:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2051977/1979-honda-accord/page-3
obdriver6
05-06-2012, 08:14 PM
+1 for the hub conversion.
Hazwan
05-07-2012, 03:59 AM
So I've looked around the junkyard for the price of 2g Civic knuckle assembly (complete with hubs and brakes) and apparently they cost a LOT less than a pair of custom made 4x120 to 4x100 adapter LOL. Now I gotta make sure that my CV joint would fit properly on the 2g Civic hubs and its all good to go (Y)
As for the rears I think it would be okay to have them redrilled to 4x100? I don't feel like spending a lot of money on rear disc setup or even swap the whole drum from a 2g Civic/Accord since mine is still pretty new.
PDXAccord79
05-07-2012, 09:40 AM
An 82 Prelude has 100x4 drums and I believe that's straight bolt up. I bought new drums for my 79 recently and they were around $15 each. Buy new ones, don't dick around with drilling.
2ndGenGuy
05-08-2012, 02:16 PM
The Prelude drums are the same size and everything? Well, hell that makes the rear super easy!
Hazwan
05-08-2012, 07:57 PM
Prelude drums = just the drum or are you talking about the whole drum assembly?
I'd rather not swap the whole thing seeing how I have all new shoes/cylinders recently (N)
carotman
05-09-2012, 05:46 AM
In the rear, you'll have to swap the bearing/hub assembly with the drum.
2ndGenGuy
05-09-2012, 11:40 AM
But the rear wheel bearings are the same part number for both the 82 Prelude and 81 Accord. Also, they both use 180mm drums. I think I'm going to buy a set in a few weeks when I get paid and double check the fitment.
79cord
05-12-2012, 04:36 AM
Sorry for the slow response.
At least the 4x100 swap allows plenty of brake upgrades & easy disc rotor replacement, though I still don't know all the options.
I first tried 2g Accord (Vented) front brake calipers & discs on mine but found they clashed once fitted to the Accord knuckles due to the different location of their mountings. Since these seem to fit the 1g Prelude which shared many parts with the 2g civic you may also find problems fitting the civic brakes, but I could be wrong. 2g-civic and most 1g prelude had non-vented discs anyway so nothing to get excited about.
You may still be able to swap 2g accord/prelude driveshaft ends on to yours (as 1g-civic do with 2g-civic ends ), to allow you to use their hubs if needed. I just found 81-2 1g-prelude driveshafts easier & then had the suitability of 2g-civic hubs for the accord driveshafts confirmed by others. (Quintet are also the same as civic)
I also extensively modified a set of 2g-accord rear drums (and all internals including backing plate) for transverse hand-brake cable actuation to fit the accord. not recommended.
2g accord/prelude rear discs were MUCH easier, better & no more undoing wheel bearings to check linings. Though they are heavier which isn't ideal.
1g prelude shared its brakes with the 2g civic but (unique amongst Honda) the prelude did not use studs and wheel nuts to mount the wheels; instead copying VW and used bolts into the hubs/drums. Civic had studs. Both have the transverse hand-brake cables like the accord and the same wheel bearings/spindle dimensions but I think there was a slight difference in the size of their brake linings so you would probably need the complete rear brake assembly, this should also provide self-adjusting rear brakes which few 1g-accord had. Again Quintet is the same as 2g-civic.
I have spare 1g-prelude bits available but have never tried them on the accord.. yet.
Hazwan
05-12-2012, 07:05 AM
So I still would need to swap my driveshaft ends from whatever donor hub to make them work then since my current 1g Accord ends wont fit into them?
79cord
05-12-2012, 04:17 PM
The original Accord driveshafts wiil fit with 2g-Civic, Quintet and '79-80 model year 1g-Prelude hubs.
Though I just remembered there might be another complication. I think '81 & maybe '80 Accords have slightly different driveshaft ends to earlier cars. The splined area was the same but inboard of that early cars tapered out to the CV-joint, later ones were squared. Early also had a split-pin to retain the castellated retaining nut where later had a groove to hammer the flanged end of the retaining nut into.
I am not sure if this could cause problems as I have seen cars that have wound up a driveshaft of each style, but it is worth remembering and getting the appropriate dust/oil seal for the hub/wheel bearings in this area.
PDXAccord79
05-12-2012, 09:11 PM
I have a 79 that originally came with the pin and castle nut. I got a replacement with the crush nut and it does not fit my car. I've seen crush nut style ends on 80 Accords in the yard so there was a change between 79-80.
79cord
05-13-2012, 01:12 AM
Interesting; just looked up some online partsbooks.
The front hub & driveshaft part# changed for the '81 model year. '76-'80 were the same.
1981 sure got a lot of changes.
That might cast doubt upon 2g civic hubs for '81 models. I suspect civic might have kept the tapered driveshaft ends possibly with crush/flanged nut.
Hazwan
05-13-2012, 02:55 AM
So I'm guessing that this method would fix the driveshaft issues then http://japanesenostalgiccar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15995
edit:
http://www.mijnalbum.nl/Foto-XNQTIJUE.jpg
Isn't that the pin and castle nut driveshaft judging from the holes at the end of it? So mine being a 81, with the grooved nut thinggy would actually fit instead?
LMAO I'm actually confused here. I guess I'll just bring my driveshaft to the junkyard and see what actually fit then hah! Stupid Honda making things so complicated!
PDXAccord79
05-13-2012, 11:52 AM
That is the pin and castle nut style that I need.
I'm thinking that maybe the axle change was a late 80 to early 81 issue since I've never seen the crush nut on anything earlier than 80 in the USA (80 2 port exhaust, 81 four port, both CVCC).
The last 80 I saw had a castle nut style for the long shaft and crush nut for the short so your car might be able to take both? I'd say bring an axle with you to the yard and start shoving it in stuff.
PDXAccord79
05-14-2012, 11:17 AM
I have now confirmed that the axles change from 79 to 80 and you cannot use an 80 axle in a 79. I have no idea how this applies to 2g hubs but at least you now know that they did change.
Hazwan
05-14-2012, 02:30 PM
I remember way back then when a shop replaced my axles and they got the wrong one where it won't fit. I guess its for a 79 and mine being a 81.
Thanks for the info tho!
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