95 acura legend brake swap

[H2289Acc]

Since one of my rear calipers seized, I decided to upgrade to Legend rear calipers and thought, "What the hell, might as well upgrade the fronts too".

Originally I was going to go with NSX calipers up front, but after weeks of searching on-line, I realized it was going to take a miracle to source them out. I found one for the right side but that was all. Every rebuild company I contacted was out of stock.

Ultimately, I had to go with the Legend GS calipers. From my research, the main difference I found between the two is that the NSX caliper is slightly lighter and has a smaller secondary piston than the Legend.

I got all my parts in the mail a few weeks ago but I'm going to get some caliper paint before I go ahead and do the install. I've got 89 Legend calipers and EBC Sport rotors for the rear, and 95 Legend GS Calipers with 11" redrilled V-TEC Prelude rotors for the front. I ordered new SE-I rear brackets from Rock Auto which I still have to mod for the upgrade. As for the front brackets, the 28Ts that came with the GS calipers are slightly too big for the 23mm Prelude rotors, so I managed to grab some 23T brackets from a 96 base model Legend at the pick-and-pull yard. It took me about two hours to get the damn things off and they were rusted to hell. After a long evening of going at 'em with a wire brush, they are as good as new. I also picked up some EBC Redstuffs to go all around.

Here are some pics:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/8706/dscf6670.jpg

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2126/dscf6672m.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/195/dscf6672m.jpg/)

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2699/dscf6678.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/207/dscf6678.jpg/)

[hammer3rd]

Keep up the good work. Getting ready to upgrade mine and I like what you are doing. Take plenty of pictures.

[H2289Acc]

Keep up the good work. Getting ready to upgrade mine and I like what you are doing. Take plenty of pictures.

Thanks. I'll keep you posted.

[obdriver6]

Looks like a sick set up!

[Tdurr]

Oh my im intrested!

Lots of pics please

[Legend_master]

So your going to mount them upside down? The legend GS and nsx calipers mount on the opposite side of the hub from our cars. Also are you making brackets, or do they bolt directly?

[Oldblueaccord]

I think if its like the Type R bracket you
ll need a 4 mm spacer link I did in my link.

wp

[H2289Acc]

So your going to mount them upside down? The legend GS and nsx calipers mount on the opposite side of the hub from our cars. Also are you making brackets, or do they bolt directly?

Actually, I was originally going to go with the straight-forward itr caliper upgrade until I did a lot of research. This conversion has been done on a lot of civics, itrs, 4th gen v-tec ludes and 5th gen accords. From what I've read, the civic and 5th gen accord calipers are mounted the same as ours, on the front of the rotor. Trick is to bleed the calipers while they're off with the bleeder facing up. Apparently after they're bled, they can then be mounted upside down without any issues. As far as the brackets go, there is a thread that lists all the caliper/bracket combos that are compatible with our cars, the 91-96 NSX and 95 Legend GS included. I have a set of itr calipers and brackets laying around so I did the comparison to the GS brackets and the bolt spacing is in fact the same. Also, I had originally ordered the redrilled 89 Legend rotors from Brian at Fastbrakes, but before they were shipped, I found out I could use the thicker v-tec lude rotors (23mm as opposed to 21mm) which are more suitable for the itr or gs caliper upgrade in terms of brake pad spacing.

I'll post more pics and let you guys know how it goes when I get around to the install.

[Oldblueaccord]

its not the bolt spacing I was referring to it was the spacing out of the caliper bracket so it does not rub on the rotor. I think you will need a spacer. There a few pictures on my link in my sig might make sense maybe not.


wp

[H2289Acc]

I think if its like the Type R bracket youll need a 4 mm spacer link I did in my link. wp

Not sure. I'll have to see what the offset is like with the 23mm lude rotor. Brian sent me some spacers just in case. I've read that some guys have had to shave the bracket approx. 3mm to get it to line up, while some guys did'nt have to make any mods at all. I guess it all depends on the bracket, hub and rotor combo.

[Oldblueaccord]

Also if you use spacers the stock bolts will be short youll need a little longer bolt as well.

Good luck with it looks like a good swap.


wp

[H2289Acc]

its not the bolt spacing I was referring to it was the spacing out of the caliper bracket so it does not rub on the rotor. I think you will need a spacer. There a few pictures on my link in my sig might make sense maybe not.


wp

I know. I did'nt see your post 'til after I replied to LM's.

[H2289Acc]

Also if you use spacers the stock bolts will be short youll need a little longer bolt as well.

Good luck with it looks like a good swap.


wp

Thanks. I'll let you know how it works out.

[Dr_Snooz]

Good stuff. Can't wait to see the install.

[MessyHonda]

this swap sounds hard.(hard to find calipers just because they are dual pistons, have to take off the caliper to bleed it, spacers) just do the legend brake swap. i been running mine for around 14k with no problems. and its a bolt up swap
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Messybone/LX-i/8d386da3.jpg

01 USDM ITR calipers
89 legend disk brakes 11.1 inch
EBC red pads

can still use my 15inch wheels with no prob

[A18A]

are there 2 other stud patterns drilled into those?

[Legend_master]

Actually, I was originally going to go with the straight-forward itr caliper upgrade until I did a lot of research. This conversion has been done on a lot of civics, itrs, 4th gen v-tec ludes and 5th gen accords. From what I've read, the civic and 5th gen accord calipers are mounted the same as ours, on the front of the rotor. Trick is to bleed the calipers while they're off with the bleeder facing up. Apparently after they're bled, they can then be mounted upside down without any issues. As far as the brackets go, there is a thread that lists all the caliper/bracket combos that are compatible with our cars, the 91-96 NSX and 95 Legend GS included. I have a set of itr calipers and brackets laying around so I did the comparison to the GS brackets and the bolt spacing is in fact the same. Also, I had originally ordered the redrilled 89 Legend rotors from Brian at Fastbrakes, but before they were shipped, I found out I could use the thicker v-tec lude rotors (23mm as opposed to 21mm) which are more suitable for the itr or gs caliper upgrade in terms of brake pad spacing.

I'll post more pics and let you guys know how it goes when I get around to the install.

Interesting, I can't wait to see these installed. The bleeding sounds like a POA, but it will look clean as hell. I actually did not have to use spacers for my type R upgrade, but I used the Legend rotors. What about the rear, what rotors are you going to use?

[87roach]

This is a cool swap, I'm interested to see how it turns out.

[H2289Acc]

this swap sounds hard.(hard to find calipers just because they are dual pistons, have to take off the caliper to bleed it, spacers) just do the legend brake swap. i been running mine for around 14k with no problems. and its a bolt up swap
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Messybone/LX-i/8d386da3.jpg

01 USDM ITR calipers
89 legend disk brakes 11.1 inch
EBC red pads

can still use my 15inch wheels with no prob

Actually, the dual piston GS calipers were not hard to find at all. Now the NSX calipers on the other hand...
Not quite sure why you're discouraging the GS swap cuz it's the same as the itr, except for the bleeding issue, which I don't consider to be that big a problem.

[H2289Acc]

Interesting, I can't wait to see these installed. The bleeding sounds like a POA, but it will look clean as hell. I actually did not have to use spacers for my type R upgrade, but I used the Legend rotors. What about the rear, what rotors are you going to use?

I'm hoping not to use the spacers either. Btw Legend, what bracket are you using for your setup, 23t or 25t?
I'm using stock size EBC sport slotted rotors for the rear. I really wanted to go with the civic 11" big brake upgrade in the rear using the legend bracket; I saw what you had accomplished with yours and it looked pretty awesome! I would still do it save for the rattle bracket issue. Any progress with that so far? I know everyone would love to see that project completed.

[Legend_master]

I'm hoping not to use the spacers either. Btw Legend, what bracket are you using for your setup, 23t or 25t?
I'm using stock size EBC sport slotted rotors for the rear. I really wanted to go with the civic 11" big brake upgrade in the rear using the legend bracket; I saw what you had accomplished with yours and it looked pretty awesome! I would still do it save for the rattle bracket issue. Any progress with that so far? I know everyone would love to see that project completed.


Not sure which bracket I have. I'll check next time I have the wheel off. As for the rear, the only solution would be a slight smaller diameter rotor. I can't see any other way without custom brackets.

[hammer3rd]

I thought you could just use a 93 accord V6 caliper and or some truck caliper without haveing to bleed them upsidedown. I know thay are still a single piston but just how much clamping force to you need with a 2600 pound car. Ill bet everyone on here with the itr or other 11" swap and rear swap can lock up all 4 at will. Then all your breaking goes to the contact patch of the tires. Very sorry to turn on you H2289Acc but I want to swap parts I can fix in an afternoon with autozone parts and be back up running. I would put the duals on in a heartbeat but that upside down thing. Now find me a dual piston that is all honda parts swap and works normal and I will be all over it. But thanks for all your hard work. That is what makes for goor reads on here.

[Legend_master]

I thought you could just use a 93 accord V6 caliper and or some truck caliper without haveing to bleed them upsidedown. I know thay are still a single piston but just how much clamping force to you need with a 2600 pound car. Ill bet everyone on here with the itr or other 11" swap and rear swap can lock up all 4 at will. Then all your breaking goes to the contact patch of the tires. Very sorry to turn on you H2289Acc but I want to swap parts I can fix in an afternoon with autozone parts and be back up running. I would put the duals on in a heartbeat but that upside down thing. Now find me a dual piston that is all honda parts swap and works normal and I will be all over it. But thanks for all your hard work. That is what makes for goor reads on here.

I don't think there is such a thing as a 93 V6 accord. To each his own on this one, and frankly I'm just curious as to if it will all bolt up or not. Again tho, I have to agree the upside down bleed is going to be a POA if something breaks down on the side of the road.

[hammer3rd]

I don't think there is such a thing as a 93 V6 accord. To each his own on this one, and frankly I'm just curious as to if it will all bolt up or not. Again tho, I have to agree the upside down bleed is going to be a POA if something breaks down on the side of the road.

Bolt on like the Legand rear caliper and theb 11" front disk upgrade. All it takes is a small spacer and the breaks work.And my bad on the 93. It was 95 but still the same caliper as the itr. (dont quote just been reading). But if you can upgrade with mostly fasctory parts and use the kiss method. You can have better than stock with autoshack serviceability. Meaning you can find parts almost anywhere. But there is a place for the full on custom car or truck But not as a daily driver.( or at least I cant afford it anyway).

[Legend_master]

Bolt on like the Legand rear caliper and theb 11" front disk upgrade. All it takes is a small spacer and the breaks work.And my bad on the 93. It was 95 but still the same caliper as the itr. (dont quote just been reading). But if you can upgrade with mostly fasctory parts and use the kiss method. You can have better than stock with autoshack serviceability. Meaning you can find parts almost anywhere. But there is a place for the full on custom car or truck But not as a daily driver.( or at least I cant afford it anyway).

If it was a small spacer that moved the caliper towards the gas tank, that would be easy. That's not the case tho, the caliper would have to be moved out as in towards the tire. That's not a simple bracket, plus the rotors are not readily available unless ordered online. As for the Legend calipers, those GS twin piston calipers are as easy to find as the Type-R calipers, I think they actually came on some models of the odyssey. Parts really shouldn't be a problem, its just the extra labor of bleeding. I'm not really sure how to bleed the brake caliper off the car since that will push the piston out, and make it difficult to put onto the rotor.

EDIT: Misunderstood what you were saying. You meant a spacer for the front. I didn't even have to use a spacer.

[hammer3rd]

If it was a small spacer that moved the caliper towards the gas tank, that would be easy. That's not the case tho, the caliper would have to be moved out as in towards the tire. That's not a simple bracket, plus the rotors are not readily available unless ordered online. As for the Legend calipers, those GS twin piston calipers are as easy to find as the Type-R calipers, I think they actually came on some models of the odyssey. Parts really shouldn't be a problem, its just the extra labor of bleeding. I'm not really sure how to bleed the brake caliper off the car since that will push the piston out, and make it difficult to put onto the rotor.

EDIT: Misunderstood what you were saying. You meant a spacer for the front. I didn't even have to use a spacer.

Good even better that you didnt use a spacer And yeah I was talking about the rear caliper upgrade. I haveing buying parts for a while to build/rebuild my 88. And I am getting ready to start buying the breaks and such. So I am going back through old posts and looking for the best of the factory type upgrades to put on my car and your name keeps comeing up. I think the legend 2 piston caliper would be great if it functioned like it should meaning the bleeder screw( light bulb, why cant you just buy threaded plug and plug the factory bleed screw hole and redrill and tao a new hole on the high side of the caliper). But I do not want anything that is not 100% servicable and reliable on my car. I work in maintenance and I see every day what bandaids do to reliability to machineary. But any way yours and old blue's 11" inch upgrade is looking mighty good at this point. Thanks for the hard work on these cars it makes it a lot eaiser for the rest of us.

[Oldblueaccord]

Actually, the dual piston GS calipers were not hard to find at all. Now the NSX calipers on the other hand...
Not quite sure why you're discouraging the GS swap cuz it's the same as the itr, except for the bleeding issue, which I don't consider to be that big a problem.


While your digging in the have you looked into the 11.8" rotor? Only fits a few 15" wheels.

Sorry for the ht link buts its fairly informative.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2906054

wp

EDIT

I looked on Rockauto the NSX caliper seems to be available. There about 175$ with the core charge. If you go local you might be able to slide around this.

[H2289Acc]

If it was a small spacer that moved the caliper towards the gas tank, that would be easy. That's not the case tho, the caliper would have to be moved out as in towards the tire. That's not a simple bracket, plus the rotors are not readily available unless ordered online. As for the Legend calipers, those GS twin piston calipers are as easy to find as the Type-R calipers, I think they actually came on some models of the odyssey. Parts really shouldn't be a problem, its just the extra labor of bleeding. I'm not really sure how to bleed the brake caliper off the car since that will push the piston out, and make it difficult to put onto the rotor.

EDIT: Misunderstood what you were saying. You meant a spacer for the front. I didn't even have to use a spacer.

From what I've read, the guys who have done the GS swap bleed the brakes using a wooden block or spacer between the pads in order to keep the piston in. Seems easy enough.

[H2289Acc]

I looked on Rockauto the NSX caliper seems to be available. There about 175$ with the core charge. If you go local you might be able to slide around this.

All of the websites list them but when it comes to ordering them, that's a different story. I've made several attempts to order them and I always get an e-mail response saying they are out of stock indefinitely. A lot of these websites don't bother to update their inventory, or rather list the items and depend on their suppliers to keep them in stock. It looks like the left side is the only one I can get my hands on.

The other problem is that whenever someone sends a set out to get rebuilt, they are obviously gonna want them back; any previous overflow of rebuilt NSX calipers have been scooped up by guys putting them on cars they weren't originally intended for (eg. itrs, civics, accords, ludes, etc.), hence the lack of supply. The only way to get 'em now would be to find 'em at a scrap yard...yeeeah! And there's no way in hell I'm paying $1200+ for a brand new set from Honda!

[H2289Acc]

Oh, and another thing...apparently the NSX calipers can be swapped directly without the bleeding issue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the NSX has its calipers bolted on to the front of the hub. That was the main reason I wanted to go NSX calipers rather than GS...and for the "NSX" stamp of course! lol

[lostforawhile]

Actually, I was originally going to go with the straight-forward itr caliper upgrade until I did a lot of research. This conversion has been done on a lot of civics, itrs, 4th gen v-tec ludes and 5th gen accords. From what I've read, the civic and 5th gen accord calipers are mounted the same as ours, on the front of the rotor. Trick is to bleed the calipers while they're off with the bleeder facing up. Apparently after they're bled, they can then be mounted upside down without any issues. As far as the brackets go, there is a thread that lists all the caliper/bracket combos that are compatible with our cars, the 91-96 NSX and 95 Legend GS included. I have a set of itr calipers and brackets laying around so I did the comparison to the GS brackets and the bolt spacing is in fact the same. Also, I had originally ordered the redrilled 89 Legend rotors from Brian at Fastbrakes, but before they were shipped, I found out I could use the thicker v-tec lude rotors (23mm as opposed to 21mm) which are more suitable for the itr or gs caliper upgrade in terms of brake pad spacing.

I'll post more pics and let you guys know how it goes when I get around to the install.
what is the issue with the bleeders facing up? is it a matter of reaching the bleeder bolts? if you can get to the bleeder bolts, you put a piece of hose on the bleeder bolt and submerge the hose in brake fluid in a jar, that excludes air from getting back into the system, you are forcing out air with hydraulic pressure by pumping the brake pedal, it doesn't really care about the orientation of the bleeder,another alternative is a set of speed bleeder bleeder bolts with the built in check valve. Or you can get a pressure bleeder kit, they are common now due to the number of ABS cars on the road,how were you bleeding them before, gravity? it's a closed hydraulic system, force out the air it doesn't care what direction something is facing

[Vanilla Sky]

The air will travel to the top of the fluid, so unless that's where it's bleeding, you're going to have a pocket of air. That's why bleeder orientation matters. It's the same reason my Jeep's cooling system can be such a pain to bleed, as it has high spots that trap pockets of air.

[lostforawhile]

The air will travel to the top of the fluid, so unless that's where it's bleeding, you're going to have a pocket of air. That's why bleeder orientation matters. It's the same reason my Jeep's cooling system can be such a pain to bleed, as it has high spots that trap pockets of air.
thats why the pressure bleeder, you can get them for mitivac systems too, you are forcing fluid into the system, a speedbleed valve or hose to brake fluid, and all of the air is forced out. they can get expensive, but there are a number of solutions on making your own online, we have this same issue bleeding the airplane brakes, they made up one with a small air compressor tank, and some fittings,they put brake fluid in the tank and use compressed air to force it into the system, the pressure bleeders are popular due to ABS brakes, not only do they prevent dirt from possibly getting in, the ABS system had issues with air pockets being trapped, and being hard to bleed, fluid under pressure forces everything out, you can also vaccume bleed which will pull any air out,probably eaisier to do and cheaper

[Oldblueaccord]

thats why the pressure bleeder, you can get them for mitivac systems too, you are forcing fluid into the system, a speedbleed valve or hose to brake fluid, and all of the air is forced out. they can get expensive, but there are a number of solutions on making your own online, we have this same issue bleeding the airplane brakes, they made up one with a small air compressor tank, and some fittings,they put brake fluid in the tank and use compressed air to force it into the system, the pressure bleeders are popular due to ABS brakes, not only do they prevent dirt from possibly getting in, the ABS system had issues with air pockets being trapped, and being hard to bleed, fluid under pressure forces everything out


rewriting laws of Physics again are we?


wp

[lostforawhile]

rewriting laws of Physics again are we?


wpno, if you force enough fluid into the system the air is forced out, it has to go somewhere

[cygnus x-1]

what is the issue with the bleeders facing up?

The problem is not which way the bleeders are facing, it's where they are located on the caliper. In this application they end up on the bottom instead of on the top, so the trapped air at the top doesn't ever make it to the bleeder. Using a pressure/vacuum system to bleed will probably help but still may not get all the air. The simple solution is to remove the lower caliper mounting bolt and flip the caliper up so the bleeder is at the top. Then put a block of wood between the pads to keep the pistons from pushing out too far and bleed as normal. When finished remove the block and swing the caliper back down. Done.


C|

[hammer3rd]

Ok so if we can for us newer viewers can someone tell the best front setup useing mostly factory parts and that are easy to get. Please LOL!!!!!!!!!!

[H2289Acc]

The problem is not which way the bleeders are facing, it's where they are located on the caliper. In this application they end up on the bottom instead of on the top, so the trapped air at the top doesn't ever make it to the bleeder. Using a pressure/vacuum system to bleed will probably help but still may not get all the air. The simple solution is to remove the lower caliper mounting bolt and flip the caliper up so the bleeder is at the top. Then put a block of wood between the pads to keep the pistons from pushing out too far and bleed as normal. When finished remove the block and swing the caliper back down. Done.


C|

Thank you! You just made this sound really easy.

[hammer3rd]

No one has answered the question of why cant we just plug the hole on the bottom and drill and tap a new one on the high side so tha air can have a passage out.

[lostforawhile]

No one has answered the question of why cant we just plug the hole on the bottom and drill and tap a new one on the high side so tha air can have a passage out.

it's not just a hole, it's a specific taper so it seals when the bleeder it tightened,just like an AN fitting does, the area where the bleeder is is also an area with more metal for the bleeder to screw into,take a bleeder out one day and look at the end of it

[hammer3rd]

it's not just a hole, it's a specific taper so it seals when the bleeder it tightened,just like an AN fitting does, the area where the bleeder is is also an area with more metal for the bleeder to screw into,take a bleeder out one day and look at the end of it

I have here just pipe threads. Not sure which size here but pipe threads none the less. Was not thinking of it being thicker but now hat you mention it I think I remember see like a little boss cast into the caliper. But yeah just figure which size tap you need and all will be fine with the taper. As for the thicker materal I cant say just a thought.

If one was to find a set of nsx calipers which mounting braket would one need. The 23,25 or what. And was the nsx for 11 or 11.8 inch roters.

[lostforawhile]

I have here just pipe threads. Not sure which size here but pipe threads none the less. Was not thinking of it being thicker but now hat you mention it I think I remember see like a little boss cast into the caliper. But yeah just figure which size tap you need and all will be fine with the taper. As for the thicker materal I cant say just a thought.

If one was to find a set of nsx calipers which mounting braket would one need. The 23,25 or what. And was the nsx for 11 or 11.8 inch roters.

I don't mean the threads, I mean the end that goes into the caliper, it has a taper to it that seals with an identical taper,

http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/productImages_thumbBIG/122048545104772.jpg

[H2289Acc]

I have here just pipe threads. Not sure which size here but pipe threads none the less. Was not thinking of it being thicker but now hat you mention it I think I remember see like a little boss cast into the caliper. But yeah just figure which size tap you need and all will be fine with the taper. As for the thicker materal I cant say just a thought.

If one was to find a set of nsx calipers which mounting braket would one need. The 23,25 or what. And was the nsx for 11 or 11.8 inch roters.

I think the NSX uses 11.8 inch rotors. Some say it doesn't matter which bracket you use and claim to have run (and continue to run) odd bracket/caliper combos without any problems. Others say the bracket you use should correlate to the thickness of rotor you are using in order to get the proper pad seating - eg. 28mm thick rotor, 28t bracket; 25mm rotor, 25t bracket; 23mm rotor, 23t bracket etc. As I understand it, if you use a 28t bracket with a 23mm thick rotor, your piston has to come out the extra 5mm in order for the pads to make contact with the rotor. As the pads and rotor start to wear down, the piston has to move out even further to make up for the wear. Not sure what negative affects this may have, if any, but using the proper bracket/rotor combo makes sense to me.

[Legend_master]

I think the NSX uses 11.8 inch rotors. Some say it doesn't matter which bracket you use and claim to have run (and continue to run) odd bracket/caliper combos without any problems. Others say the bracket you use should correlate to the thickness of rotor you are using in order to get the proper pad seating - eg. 28mm thick rotor, 28t bracket; 25mm rotor, 25t bracket; 23mm rotor, 23t bracket etc. As I understand it, if you use a 28t bracket with a 23mm thick rotor, your piston has to come out the extra 5mm in order for the pads to make contact with the rotor. As the pads and rotor start to wear down, the piston has to move out even further to make up for the wear. Not sure what negative affects this may have, if any, but using the proper bracket/rotor combo makes sense to me.

If I remember right the NSX caliper are mounted the same as the 2nd gen legend. With that said, I think the first gen NSX caliper is 11". The second gen is the larger brake setup. Either way the NSX calipers wil cost you more in the long run. I would do the legend calipers, and upgrade from there

[hammer3rd]

[QUOTE=Legend_master;1099393]If I remember right the NSX caliper are mounted the same as the 2nd gen legend. With that said, I think the first gen NSX caliper is 11". The second gen is the larger brake setup. Either way the NSX calipers wil cost you more in the long run. I would do the legend calipers, and upgrade from there[/QUOA

What do you have you done to yours. The legend front setup and the legend calipers on the rear?

[Legend_master]

I think the NSX uses 11.8 inch rotors. Some say it doesn't matter which bracket you use and claim to have run (and continue to run) odd bracket/caliper combos without any problems. Others say the bracket you use should correlate to the thickness of rotor you are using in order to get the proper pad seating - eg. 28mm thick rotor, 28t bracket; 25mm rotor, 25t bracket; 23mm rotor, 23t bracket etc. As I understand it, if you use a 28t bracket with a 23mm thick rotor, your piston has to come out the extra 5mm in order for the pads to make contact with the rotor. As the pads and rotor start to wear down, the piston has to move out even further to make up for the wear. Not sure what negative affects this may have, if any, but using the proper bracket/rotor combo makes sense to me.


Did some research, and you are correct the NSX calipers mount in the same direction as the Accord. That would make for an easy bolt on, but expensive replacement part.




What do you have you done to yours. The legend front setup and the legend calipers on the rear?

I am running (front) Lx-i hubs, Integra type-R brake calipers/bracket, and re-drilled first gen Acura Legend rotors. Currently in the rear i'm running stock rotors with first gen Legend calipers modified to fit SE-i brake brackets.

[hammer3rd]

Did some research, and you are correct the NSX calipers mount in the same direction as the Accord. That would make for an easy bolt on, but expensive replacement part.




I am running (front) Lx-i hubs, Integra type-R brake calipers/bracket, and re-drilled first gen Acura Legend rotors. Currently in the rear i'm running stock rotors with first gen Legend calipers modified to fit SE-i brake brackets.

Thanks legend. Read some of your posts but could never find where you said this system preformed.

[MessyHonda]

I am running (front) Lx-i hubs, Integra type-R brake calipers/bracket, and re-drilled first gen Acura Legend rotors. Currently in the rear i'm running stock rotors with first gen Legend calipers modified to fit SE-i brake brackets.

IM running the same set up. just drilled and slotted rotors and I been running it for more than 13k miles with no issues.

[hammer3rd]

IM running the same set up. just drilled and slotted rotors and I been running it for more than 13k miles with no issues.

Thanks messy. Does it stop well. Is it biased well front to back. Which prop valve do you have.

[Oldblueaccord]

http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=29191

pretty good chart for Honda brake swaps.



wp

[Legend_master]

Check this one out, mini cooper rotors bolt directly on the Integra hub with not re-drilling of the bolt holes.

http://marketplace.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3033972

[ShyBoyCA6]

Check this one out, mini cooper rotors bolt directly on the Integra hub with not re-drilling of the bolt holes.

http://marketplace.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3033972


Could it be possible for the rotors to fit on the accord without much mods? Im interested since i do need new brakes.

[Legend_master]

Could it be possible for the rotors to fit on the accord without much mods? Im interested since i do need new brakes.

Honestly i have no clue, but im leaning towards yes.

[ShyBoyCA6]

Honestly i have no clue, but im leaning towards yes.

I've been looking at the rotors and look like they "would" work. The only thing is that the cooper rotor is 11.5 i think a bit bigger than the legend rotor?, so i dont think using 15's will be possible cause of the caliper but i could be wrong...

[Legend_master]

I've been looking at the rotors and look like they "would" work. The only thing is that the cooper rotor is 11.5 i think a bit bigger than the legend rotor?, so i dont think using 15's will be possible cause of the caliper but i could be wrong...

No, there is a year that is 11.1 because that is what the civic/integra guys are running with type R calipers and brackets. What I would be worried about is if it fits without washers, or grinding the brackets.

[MessyHonda]

Thanks messy. Does it stop well. Is it biased well front to back. Which prop valve do you have.

yeah it stops well. It does not tend to lock up like the stock set up. I have the SE-I prop. I also have a new master cly and stainless steel lines with Dot 5.1 napa brake fluid

[Rendon LX-i]

Umm I need to do this mini cooper rotors ey.

[H2289Acc]

I've got some good news...and some bad news!

Guess i'll start with the good. I did a test fit and the GS calipers and brackets bolt up perfectly with the lude rotors using two washers for each bolt (I used the longer legend bolts that I got with the 23t bracket at the scrap yard). I got pics so I'll try to post 'em later today.

And now for the bad news...

Got into a bad wreck today with my baby :( I was crossing an intersection on a green light when this cocksucker in a Ford Windstar decided to make a left in front of me. Did what I could to avoid the collision but didn't have anywhere to go. I locked up the brakes and basically T-boned this asshole, crunching my whole right side. JDM marker is gone (good luck finding another one), front marker is gone, custom bracket and headlight modules that I spent hours making are totalled and my HID ballasts are messed up. My front bumper, re-bar, hood, fender, and probably inner-right frame are all mangled.

I don't know how your insurance works down in the States, but up here in Canada we have what they call "no-fault insurance". Basically means that you have to deal with your own insurance company instead of the insurance company of the person who's at fault. Problem with this is, as you guys all know, the blue book value on our cars is basically peanuts; I'm afraid my insurance company is going to write off the car because they'll say it's not worth it to get it fixed, given the car's age, and offer me a measly $1000 bucks. I'd say the damage is probably in the $3-4G range. This system is bullshit in my opinion. :madflip: What ever happened to "you break it, you fix it"? Only good thing is that I had 3 witnesses say they saw the whole thing and it wasn't my fault. They gave me their business cards, and one guy even gave a statement to the cop who arrived on scene.

And so, as the depression sets in, I'll be drinking myself into a coma tonight. But before that, I'll post up the brake pics, as well as the horrifying ones.

[H2289Acc]

The good:

http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2226/brake1a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/32/brake1a.jpg/)

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/5785/brake2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/560/brake2.jpg/)
Here you can see the two spacers used to line up the caliper with the rotor. Brian from Fastbrakes sent them along with the V-TEC Lude rotors; somehow he knew exactly what I needed - one washer is thinner than the other to provide the exact spacing.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8766/brake5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/brake5.jpg/)

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/1185/brake4c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/brake4c.jpg/)
GS BRAKE SET UP
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6345/brake7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/brake7.jpg/)
STOCK BRAKE SET UP
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5606/brake8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/brake8.jpg/)
LEGEND REAR BRAKE SET UP READY FOR PAINT
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6084/brake20.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/brake20.jpg/)

[H2289Acc]

The redundant:

Thought I'd throw in some pics of my recent wire tuck. Probably doesn't matter now.

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6783/tuck4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/tuck4.jpg/)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9922/tuck10.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/tuck10.jpg/)

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2655/tuck15.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/tuck15.jpg/)

[H2289Acc]

The ugly:

Brace yourselves. This ain't pretty...

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/1253/crash1w.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/crash1w.jpg/)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4313/crash2x.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/crash2x.jpg/)

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7048/crash3v.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/crash3v.jpg/)

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5679/crash4m.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/crash4m.jpg/)

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9518/crash5o.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/crash5o.jpg/)

Hopefully someone will wake me up 2moro and tell me this was all a bad dream.

[A18A]

the brakes look good, what size are your wheels? they still make the new brakes look small lol.

Sucks about the crash though, but it doesn't look *too* bad. if you have access to a good sized steel beam, and other basic tools, you can pull the bent frame back straight

[Legend_master]

My grey hatch was totaled for $500, i then bought it back for $75 lol. Moved everything over to an $800 "new" hatch. Besides that, am i seeing the bleeder scew on top of the legend caliper?

[87roach]

Good job on the swap, sucks about the crash though... it looks repairable though.

[DBMaster]

OMG! It caused me physical pain to see those photos!

[MessyHonda]

the brakes do look good. but are the rotors backwards?

[Oldblueaccord]

I run mine with the slots forward. Really I did it by mistake. I copied the Power slot add and they had the negative flopped so when I put them on I realized my mistake. They do make them both ways.

I think its like the debate about calipers in front or rear hung. Not really an answer.


H22 I bet if you measure those spacers it will be 4 mm or about .170"


wp

[Oldblueaccord]

I've got some good news...and some bad news!

Guess i'll start with the good. I did a test fit and the GS calipers and brackets bolt up perfectly with the lude rotors using two washers for each bolt (I used the longer legend bolts that I got with the 23t bracket at the scrap yard). I got pics so I'll try to post 'em later today.

And now for the bad news...

Got into a bad wreck today with my baby :( I was crossing an intersection on a green light when this cocksucker in a Ford Windstar decided to make a left in front of me. Did what I could to avoid the collision but didn't have anywhere to go. I locked up the brakes and basically T-boned this asshole, crunching my whole right side. JDM marker is gone (good luck finding another one), front marker is gone, custom bracket and headlight modules that I spent hours making are totalled and my HID ballasts are messed up. My front bumper, re-bar, hood, fender, and probably inner-right frame are all mangled.

I don't know how your insurance works down in the States, but up here in Canada we have what they call "no-fault insurance". Basically means that you have to deal with your own insurance company instead of the insurance company of the person who's at fault. Problem with this is, as you guys all know, the blue book value on our cars is basically peanuts; I'm afraid my insurance company is going to write off the car because they'll say it's not worth it to get it fixed, given the car's age, and offer me a measly $1000 bucks. I'd say the damage is probably in the $3-4G range. This system is bullshit in my opinion. :madflip: What ever happened to "you break it, you fix it"? Only good thing is that I had 3 witnesses say they saw the whole thing and it wasn't my fault. They gave me their business cards, and one guy even gave a statement to the cop who arrived on scene.

And so, as the depression sets in, I'll be drinking myself into a coma tonight. But before that, I'll post up the brake pics, as well as the horrifying ones.


Just to add get rid of those tires . Thread ware rating of 500 on tires is for old people who just goto church and the bread store once a week. You wouldnt been able to lock up your brakes with a good performance tires with a 200 rating.


wp

[H2289Acc]

the brakes look good, what size are your wheels? they still make the new brakes look small lol.

Sucks about the crash though, but it doesn't look *too* bad. if you have access to a good sized steel beam, and other basic tools, you can pull the bent frame back straight

Thanks. Wheels are 18s. They do make the brakes look small, huh? lol
I've got to take the car to the body shop 2moro to get a quote for my insurance. I managed to get my hood open today and the right side under my intake is pretty banged up as well as the front part of the frame where the fender and lights bolt up. One of the welded seems above the wheel well also split. Rebar is also mangled. I think I'm gonna need more than a big steel bar and some tools to fix this one. Don't think I can handle this on my own.

[H2289Acc]

My grey hatch was totaled for $500, i then bought it back for $75 lol. Moved everything over to an $800 "new" hatch. Besides that, am i seeing the bleeder scew on top of the legend caliper?
Yeah, I might have to do the same but the prob is finding a good shell with no rust.
And the bleeder is up cuz you're looking at the left caliper on the right side; that's also the left rotor. Already had the right side jacked and the wheel off when I realized i brought down the left side brake parts with me so I just threw them on that side for the test fit.

[H2289Acc]

OMG! It caused me physical pain to see those photos!

Exactly how I feel.

[H2289Acc]

Just to add get rid of those tires . Thread ware rating of 500 on tires is for old people who just goto church and the bread store once a week. You wouldnt been able to lock up your brakes with a good performance tires with a 200 rating.

wp

4mm sounds about right. I'll get an exact measurement later.
How did you know the tread wear rating? Just from the pics? And thanks for the advice. These ones have a good amount of wear and two of them need to be replaced asap.

[Dr_Snooz]

It's heartbreaking to see such a clean build get banged up. Good luck fighting with your insurance.

[A18A]

I think I'm gonna need more than a big steel bar and some tools to fix this one. Don't think I can handle this on my own.

You might be surprised! (excuse going OT) my mate has a subaru he crashed which twisted the whole car to the point of the door alignment being completely out, it was straightened with one big solid steel beam, some chains & a ratchet. same for my celica, the whole front of the body was twisted. that same steel bar, plus some chains & a trolley jack got it straight again (within 2mm of factory). if i was local, i'd be keen to help you fix it

[H2289Acc]

:crying:Thanks Snooz, A18A.
My inner frame seems to be pretty mangled and my rebar is completely shifted 2 inches to the left. Seems like a pretty daunting task for me to fix by myself, and to pay someone else may cost me an arm or two.
Not sure what I'm gonna do yet, but I do have another option; a guy at my local parts shop said he had a customer trying to sell his '88 LX, body cleaner than mine, with only 130k on it. Think he wants a G-note for it. It's manual but it's carbed. Anybody know how difficult it would be to swap harnesses? I figure for all the work and money I would need to get the other one fixed, I could spend close to the same amount and just swap all the parts over like Legend did. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm still kinda torn.

Oh, and Ol Blue, tread wear rating on my tires is actually 300.

[ShyBoyCA6]

It shouldn't cost you a dime if you still have your coupe. Its just swapping things over from the FI to the carb. There is a how to fit this swap. Sorry for the loss of your car. BTW what size is the rotor your using with the gs caliper?

[lostforawhile]

you can swap everything over just like factory, there are great How to's on here, whats mangled in yours? are you talking about the front cross member? the one the front motor mount is attached to? I'll have a spare one shortly,it's a little beat up but solid, the shipping would kill you though, there is nothing in the front of these cars that can't be fixed by unbolting and replacing, or a BFH and a piece of wood and a beam, they are very simple construction, both the front and rear cross member unbolt, the headlight buckets unbolt, the radiator support comes off with bolts, try that on a civic, take everything off and the fenders and you'll see what I mean

[A18A]

well in that case, everything from your car will swap into the other one relatively easy (you'd need to swap harness, fuel tank & fuel feed line). only issue would be the mounts that where welded to your car for the h22 would have to also be welded into the next car

[H2289Acc]

It shouldn't cost you a dime if you still have your coupe. Its just swapping things over from the FI to the carb. There is a how to fit this swap. Sorry for the loss of your car. BTW what size is the rotor your using with the gs caliper?

The rotors are off of a 4th gen vtec lude; I believe they are 11.1 inches.

[lostforawhile]

if you fix yours once everything is unbolted, it basically comes down to two side frame rails,inner fender wells, and a box section around the radiator shell, all easy to fix, these cars not being mcphearson struts, the shock tower alignment isn't quite as critical, it's still important due to the upper control arms, but it can be hammered pretty straight. Most of the parts that are critical and are damaged in a front end wreck,can be unbolted

[H2289Acc]

you can swap everything over just like factory, there are great How to's on here, whats mangled in yours? are you talking about the front cross member? the one the front motor mount is attached to? I'll have a spare one shortly,it's a little beat up but solid, the shipping would kill you though, there is nothing in the front of these cars that can't be fixed by unbolting and replacing, or a BFH and a piece of wood and a beam, they are very simple construction, both the front and rear cross member unbolt, the headlight buckets unbolt, the radiator support comes off with bolts, try that on a civic, take everything off and the fenders and you'll see what I mean

Thanks for the offer, but my front cross member is about the only thing on the front end that's untouched. Plus it's a custom one for the 22 swap.

The main parts that are damaged are: my rebar or bumper support - it's mangled and shifted more than 2 inches to the left and down; the part of the frame where the last bolt secures the top of the fender is completely caved in; the bucket where the headlight goes is crunched inward and down, and; the seam near the upper part of the wheel well (under hood side) has partially split. I'll start taking shit apart 2moro if it doesn't rain. I'll also take some pics under the hood to give you a better idea of the extent of the damage. And BTW, sorry but, what's a "BFH"? Big f'n hammer? lol
Oh and one other thing, rebar, rad support, fender are all pretty easy to find in the aftermarket but HL bucket and fender wells? These cars are non-existent in the scrap yards up here in Canada.

[lostforawhile]

Thanks for the offer, but my front cross member is about the only thing on the front end that's untouched. Plus it's a custom one for the 22 swap.

The main parts that are damaged are: my rebar or bumper support - it's mangled and shifted more than 2 inches to the left and down; the part of the frame where the last bolt secures the top of the fender is completely caved in; the bucket where the headlight goes is crunched inward and down, and; the seam near the upper part of the wheel well (under hood side) has partially split. I'll start taking shit apart 2moro if it doesn't rain. I'll also take some pics under the hood to give you a better idea of the extent of the damage. And BTW, sorry but, what's a "BFH"? Big f'n hammer? lol

a big f'ing hammer, right. you know the entire headlight buckets unbolt? where the top of the fender bolt is is all sheet metal under there, it's easy to hammer back, I know the fender looks bad, but the fender sheet metal is thin, what it bolts up to is pretty simple and should hammer back

[H2289Acc]

a big f'ing hammer, right. you know the entire headlight buckets unbolt? where the top of the fender bolt is is all sheet metal under there, it's easy to hammer back, I know the fender looks bad, but the fender sheet metal is thin, what it bolts up to is pretty simple and should hammer back

Really appreciate your help. You're making this seem relatively easy. But where am I going to find a new HL bucket? These cars are non-existent in the scrap yards up here....or are you suggesting I bang it back into shape like the fender well?

[Dr_Snooz]

I agree with Lost. I don't see any damage that would make you have to scrap the car. You'll know more when you tear it down, of course. Are your front wheels tracking straight? If so, then I'd be very optimistic. Basically, you just keep taking stuff off until you don't find bent stuff anymore. Then replace.

[lostforawhile]

Really appreciate your help. You're making this seem relatively easy. But where am I going to find a new HL bucket? These cars are non-existent in the scrap yards up here....or are you suggesting I bang it back into shape like the fender well?

have you tried seeing if someone here has one? they are everywhere in the yards here, the entire bucket unbolts with the headlight mechanism attached to it, other then the motor, I'm going to the yard Saturday, if any are left I'll see how much, the bracket caved in in the picture,actually unbolts, I took a picture since my fender is off, but my phone is acting up, guys here always seem to have parts, just ask and work something out is all

[H2289Acc]

I agree with Lost. I don't see any damage that would make you have to scrap the car. You'll know more when you tear it down, of course. Are your front wheels tracking straight? If so, then I'd be very optimistic. Basically, you just keep taking stuff off until you don't find bent stuff anymore. Then replace.

Well before the banger, felt like she was pulling very slightly to the right. I did my own alignment after my lude arms went on so I know it wasn't perfect. After the wreck, I put my stock rims back on with winters on 'em and while driving today it felt like it was pulling very slightly to the left. There's next to no wear on these so that would explain it. I don't think the crash threw off my tracking. I did however hear an odd clunk today when I hit a bump. I'm gonna have to check it 2moro and make sure everything's still tight.

The more I talk to you guys about it, the more optimistic I am. Even managed to find a replacement set of JDM markers today on ebay.

[lostforawhile]

Well before the banger, felt like she was pulling very slightly to the right. I did my own alignment after my lude arms went on so I know it wasn't perfect. After the wreck, I put my stock rims back on with winters on 'em and while driving today it felt like it was pulling very slightly to the left. There's next to no wear on these so that would explain it. I don't think the crash threw off my tracking. I did however hear a an odd clunk today when I hit a bump. I'm gonna have to check it 2moro and make sure everything's still tight.

The more I talk to you guys about it, the more optimistic I am. Even managed to find a replacement set of JDM markers today on ebay.

we are here to help you if we can, I don't think a light assembly weighs that much, I have a spare left and right in a box and it's not that bad, I don't think it would cost much to ship, you might need a set of headlight retractor relays, they are behind that corner, but they may be fine

[H2289Acc]

have you tried seeing if someone here has one? they are everywhere in the yards here, the entire bucket unbolts with the headlight mechanism attached to it, other then the motor, I'm going to the yard Saturday, if any are left I'll see how much, the bracket caved in in the picture,actually unbolts, I took a picture since my fender is off, but my phone is acting up, guys here always seem to have parts, just ask and work something out is all

:bow: Thanks, Lost. If you can find one I'll pay you for the part, the shipping AND the trouble!

[lostforawhile]

:bow: Thanks, Lost. If you can find one I'll pay you for the part, the shipping AND the trouble!

just the part and the shipping is fine,it's no trouble, how the crap do you get stuff past customs? I've been trying to send a small box to someone and it came back six times,there must be a way

[H2289Acc]

we are here to help you if we can, I don't think a light assembly weighs that much, I have a spare left and right in a box and it's not that bad, I don't think it would cost much to ship, you might need a set of headlight retractor relays, they are behind that corner, but they may be fine

I don't have the pop-up assembly anymore. I made my own custom brackets for a flush conversion. You can see it in the pics earlier in this thread. What sucks is that I'm gonna have to make 2 new brackets from scratch and my Hella custom HL modules cost $100 a piece plus shipping. Also my right side HID ballast and bulb is toast. The ballast was tucked right behind the bucket. I managed to salvage what's left of the high beam module and I hammered out the bracket so I may be able to use it temporarily 'til I can fab up another one.

[H2289Acc]

just the part and the shipping is fine,it's no trouble, how the crap do you get stuff past customs? I've been trying to send a small box to someone and it came back six times,there must be a way

lol What's in the package? Mary J? Not sure why you're having so much trouble. I've never had any probs shipping to the states. Did you specify what was in the package?

[lostforawhile]

I don't have the pop-up assembly anymore. I made my own custom brackets for a flush conversion. You can see it in the pics earlier in this thread. What sucks is that I'm gonna have to make 2 new brackets from scratch and my Hella custom HL modules cost $100 a piece plus shipping. Also my right side HID ballast and bulb is toast. The ballast was tucked right behind the bucket. I managed to salvage what's left of the high beam module and I hammered out the bracket so I may be able to use it temporarily 'til I can fab up another one.

let me know which pieces of the bucket you need, I know if that one is still at the yard I can grab that bent bracket, if I send anything it will be "ford probe headlight parts" if it's made in the US no fee, if it's made outside of the us it's 6 percent of declared value, so everything will be "ford parts"

[H2289Acc]

let me know which pieces of the bucket you need, I know if that one is still at the yard I can grab that bent bracket, if I send anything it will be "ford probe headlight parts" if it's made in the US no fee, if it's made outside of the us it's 6 percent of declared value, so everything will be "ford parts"

You are GOOD, sir!

Basically, I think I'm gonna need that whole bucket assembly/bracket thingy. The custom bracket I made just sits over top of the original assembly using the original mounting points for the pop-ups.

[obdriver6]

I think I died a little when I saw the car! :( Hope you can get every thing straightened out with the insurance and car.

[H2289Acc]

I think I died a little when I saw the car! :( Hope you can get every thing straightened out with the insurance and car.
Thanks.

It's at the body shop now, I just haven't had a chance to pick it up yet. Apparently they managed to straighten out the major damage. Now I just need a rebar, hood, fender, bumper and lights for the right side. My insurance company is trying to dick me around though; the adjuster went to see it and said the car isn't worth anything and they are going to write it off! What the hell am I paying insurance for? The accident wasn't even my fault. I told the adjuster I just replaced the brakes, all UCA's/ball joints, had a new stereo and alarm installed all within the last two months. The guy told me to send him all the receipts and he will do his best. My ass! I knew they were going to try to low-ball me. F*ckers!
I'll post pics and let you know how it turns out.

[Dr_Snooz]

What the hell am I paying insurance for?

Duh, so the CEO and board of directors can vote themselves fabulous bonuses for denying claims.

Seriously though, sorry to hear about the trouble. Hope you get it worked out.