Accident Aftermath '88 LX

[88Sleeper]

Hey guys, I rear ended a grampa last Friday, got the officer to write him up for 100% of the fault, but my 3Gee needs a new hood, right headlight housing, ac condenser, bumper paint (I hope that is it), and a bunch of metal straightening to do.

However, the major things I wanted some advice on were the brakes.
I slammed them so hard that the fittings in the front left wheel brake hose blew off and I had to drive home on the engine (sucked).

Anyhow, my rear brakes have been doing terrible performance for a while now, and it didn't help that they were due for a re-tightening for the past month or so. I have heard and read from a bunch of guys that the rear disk swap is great, and I have viewed Legend_Master's big brake kit upgrades, and want to do them.

The problem is that I live in Idaho, and it seems that the (real) cowboys here look down on keeping "jap-crap" lying around in the junkyard. Theres only 2 yards here, and neither of them have an Se-i, and 1 picked out 3Gee left.

I looked online for getting them off the web, and I might be able to get them new from some honda dealers, however, they are big $$, so I was hoping that if anyone has done the swap, what would I need to actually get? I'm leaving disks and calipers off of the list, for Legend_Master's brake upgrade, but Ive never done it before.

Any kind of info you guys can send would be really appreciated!! :huh:

[88Sleeper]

I forgot one other thing.

Do you guys think that I can install a master cylinder from a v6 honda? I would think
that it would help get more braking power, or am I wrong?

[Dr_Snooz]

Search is your friend, grasshopper.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11356

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57902

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46522

www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71591

[Vanilla Sky]

Master cylinder size doesn't dictate the force applied to the brakes, just the gain. A larger bore master cylinder moves more fluid per inch of travel than a small one, so the pedal throw is shorter. If you swap to the SEi rear brakes, you should change the master cylinder out to an LXi/SEi master cylinder.

I've never had an issue with performance out of the drum brakes on these cars, to be honest. It sounds like you had a brake failure, and that's why you crashed. If I were you, I'd be installing new calipers, rotors, pads, rubber lines, hardware, master cylinder, drums, and shoes right now. Not used parts, new stuff. If you want to do a small upgrade, I recommend a front LXi brake swap. The only thing you need from the junk yard is the spindle. Leave the parts you won't be reusing, but take the nuts and bolts for spares.

The stock brakes on these cars are adequate to lock up most tires, unless you're running fairly sticky tires. I've managed to lock up all 4 in an LX sedan, and it was running decently sticky Dunlops on it. Any more braking power than what your tires can handle will just be wasted. I'd skip doing Legend Master's upgrades and work on getting your stock brakes working correctly.

[lostforawhile]

Master cylinder size doesn't dictate the force applied to the brakes, just the gain. A larger bore master cylinder moves more fluid per inch of travel than a small one, so the pedal throw is shorter. If you swap to the SEi rear brakes, you should change the master cylinder out to an LXi/SEi master cylinder.

I've never had an issue with performance out of the drum brakes on these cars, to be honest. It sounds like you had a brake failure, and that's why you crashed. If I were you, I'd be installing new calipers, rotors, pads, rubber lines, hardware, master cylinder, drums, and shoes right now. Not used parts, new stuff. If you want to do a small upgrade, I recommend a front LXi brake swap. The only thing you need from the junk yard is the spindle. Leave the parts you won't be reusing, but take the nuts and bolts for spares.

The stock brakes on these cars are adequate to lock up most tires, unless you're running fairly sticky tires. I've managed to lock up all 4 in an LX sedan, and it was running decently sticky Dunlops on it. Any more braking power than what your tires can handle will just be wasted. I'd skip doing Legend Master's upgrades and work on getting your stock brakes working correctly.

I pulled the numer off of a 1st gen teg and it was the same as the SEI master, if you can't find one you just order one of those,whats more important is the proportioning valve, since the brake bias to the rear will be different with discs, I would bet the teg also has the same one, both cars are a similar size and weight and it has rear discs

[Dr_Snooz]

I've never had an issue with performance out of the drum brakes on these cars, to be honest.

x2. I found that the pedal became slightly mushier after "upgrading" to rear discs. Before I did the swap, I wrecked but still managed to smoke all four tires going in with the stock drums. They are more than adequate for the car. The discs are just sexier, but no one will see them if you have stock wheels.

[Vanilla Sky]

I really think the SEi needs a bigger master cylinder. Every 3gee I've driven with rear disc brakes felt mooshy, even an actual SEi. A bigger MC should help with that.

The 88 and 89 LXi has the same master cylinder as the SEi. The proportioning valve is the same as the Civics and Integras. It's the popular "40/40" proportioning valve, so you should be able to source one with very little trouble.

Here are some relevant numbers:

SEi master .94" bore, Honda part number 46100-SM4-J04
LX master .88" bore, Honda part number 46100-SK7-J03

[88Sleeper]

Thanks for the info guys!

My brakes weren't the problem for the hit. dumb grandpa flipped into my lane going 15-20 mph on a 45 mph street. He had a well-built on ramp, and I had already slowed down to 35 since I saw he was going slow. When I shifted up to pass him up the hill, he basically swerved into my lane with maybe 10 ft or less in between our bumpers.

POS Dodge grand caravan didn't even get a scratch, but the top of my bumper went under his and most of the damage went straight into the hood and right light.

Best part is that he told the officer "I was just trying to teach him a lesson...":facepalm: at which point she loaded him up with another ticket for reckless driving :Owned2:

Sorry for not searching very thoroughly before posting, the
links will really help Dr. Snooz!

Thanks for the P/N as well. Im not sure if it's just me, but its getting a little bit harder to find parts for the 3Gee? In my understanding, honda stopped making the parts, and is just selling its stocks since 2010...

I was planning on going to rear disk for (maybe) better stopping power and for the look. I was going to go with 15 or 16" rims and then the brakes would show. I am just not that big of a fan of showing off a small rusted drum that doesn't take up much space, kind of like the ones on a Scion xB, lol!

Also, whenever I would really use the brakes before, the fronts would lock, but the rear's would just keep rolling forward as if they weren't getting a lot of pressure. But that was not long after I had tightened them, so I didn't get wtf was going on.

I will try the lx-i front upgrade too. The boot on my CV joint broke last year and considering that the boot costs -10$ from the cost of a new Cv Joint/axle, it was recommended to just forget it until it fell off :werd:

I just gotta find time to go parts hunting I guess.

[Vanilla Sky]

We don't have factory support like we used to have, in that Honda doesn't make most of the unique parts to our cars anymore. We're at the point that the aftermarket has started to produce new spares, but many of them, despite being new, still are lacking in quality. Service parts, like suspension parts and engine parts are fairly readily available in the aftermarket, but quality varies greatly. For suspension stuff, buy Moog or another top-shelf brand that makes their own parts or buys quality parts for resale.

I wouldn't use that axle too much longer. Once the bearings get contaminated, they often don't last much longer, so I'd be saving up for a new axle. If you can swing it, I'd buy a new aftermarket axle instead of a remanufactured axle.

Grandpa sounds like he's a dick. I think I would have argued at that point that he was attempting to kill you. I mean, might as well tack on an attempted manslaughter charge!

[88Sleeper]

Lol, Im not sure if grandpa was just being challenged that day or what; I was really pissed off when he hinted that he had done it on purpose, but I didn't say anything since the cop was right there and she had already told me to leave.

Im not sure if the insurance company will even cover me much for the cost of repair. One of my friends told me that since the car has no real world value, they might only give me like $400-500 and claim it as "totaled"

Im not sure if it would be better to just fix it myself, or try to get something from insurance? I have never been in an accident before, & my parents have never had a situation where the damage exceeds worth of vehicle, so they dont know either.

[Vanilla Sky]

It's his insurance that has to pay for it. Don't settle out for less than a few grand if they even hint at totalling the car out. I'd try to settle out around $1200 and then I'd fix it myself. Don't take the first insurance offer, either. If they start trying to dick you around, a letter from a lawyer's office weighs fairly heavy with an insurance company, because it's easier and cheaper to settle.

[88Sleeper]

Ok, Thanks. I will make sure to make them pay for what they did to my poor 3G :D

I found a few Upick Junk Yards in Ontario, so Im going to go head up there to try & pull an lx-i front knuckle & setup, and Im hoping to score some Se-i parts.

I don't think they will let me bring in a van, but they make you walk in with your own tools & what you can carry in/out.

Any tips for what I definitely should bring & what to watch out for?
Lol, I know I'm definitely bringing a 10mm wrench ^.^

I got the '88 accord manual book with me, so I will check with that, but I'm going to be trying to rip stuff out in the biggest chunks possible.

Again, thanks for all of your help!! :bow:

[Dr_Snooz]

I take all my tools to the yard. All 150# of them. I've gone in too many times and had to leave something awesome because I didn't have the right tools.

[Vanilla Sky]

You're going to need tools in 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 17mm, 19mm, and I believe 31mm for the big axle nut. I have found that the axle nut may be a different size due to replacement, so I have a few different sizes for that task. I keep a junkyard tool kit, and I'll take extra stuff if needed. My junkyard kit is small, but it's selected to keep me from carrying extra tools. I keep it all in a big tool duffel bag.

[lostforawhile]

this might be one of those times to get a lawyer and go after him, since he said " he was trying to teach you a lesson" and the cop heard him and cited him because of that, what kind of crazy asshole hits someone because they are "trying to teach them a lesson?" you could have been seriously hurt or killed,

[88Sleeper]

this might be one of those times to get a lawyer and go after him, since he said " he was trying to teach you a lesson" and the cop heard him and cited him because of that, what kind of crazy asshole hits someone because they are "trying to teach them a lesson?" you could have been seriously hurt or killed,

Im going to wait and see how much $$ Ill get from the insurance before I decide to do that. Personally, I want to go get him cited with 'use of vehicle as weapon' and then suggest that they take away his driving privileges for being unstable, but that's wishful thinking. I don't know how the law is enforced where you guys are, but the police budget here is small, and a lot of s*** slides because it's not kept track of, and the officers are mainly concerned with going after gangs and drugs.

I think I've got a good idea of what Im going to say, just need to script it out if I go to the court over it. One thing Im going to do is install one of those small camera recorders on the front and back to have as an option in case I ever get screwed over again.

:dunno:

[88Sleeper]

You're going to need tools in 10mm, 12mm, 14mm, 17mm, 19mm, and I believe 31mm for the big axle nut. I have found that the axle nut may be a different size due to replacement, so I have a few different sizes for that task. I keep a junkyard tool kit, and I'll take extra stuff if needed. My junkyard kit is small, but it's selected to keep me from carrying extra tools. I keep it all in a big tool duffel bag.

Ill have to check if I have a 31mm, but that's a great idea for making a "toolkit"

Initially I was going to throw the toolchest and some boxes of loose tools into my brothers van and take that there, but they they said I couldn't bring the van into the yard. I don't want to drag unnecessary things around on me either, cause each one adds up pretty fast, but like Dr Snooz said, it would suck pretty bad to not have that one thing you really need to pull a part off.

I think a combination of taking it all in the van and then just coming in/out with a big bag of tools specific to the part Im pulling would be the best option.

I wonder how Im going to fit a hood into a minivan though, :banghead:

[lostforawhile]

Ill have to check if I have a 31mm, but that's a great idea for making a "toolkit"

Initially I was going to throw the toolchest and some boxes of loose tools into my brothers van and take that there, but they they said I couldn't bring the van into the yard. I don't want to drag unnecessary things around on me either, cause each one adds up pretty fast, but like Dr Snooz said, it would suck pretty bad to not have that one thing you really need to pull a part off.

I think a combination of taking it all in the van and then just coming in/out with a big bag of tools specific to the part Im pulling would be the best option.

I wonder how Im going to fit a hood into a minivan though, :banghead:

get a piece of foam,put it on the roof, and use a set of ratcheting tie down straps, I would be suprised if the van doesn't have a luggage rack to anchor to

[Dr_Snooz]

this might be one of those times to get a lawyer and go after him, since he said " he was trying to teach you a lesson" and the cop heard him and cited him because of that, what kind of crazy asshole hits someone because they are "trying to teach them a lesson?" you could have been seriously hurt or killed,

I think it California you can notify the DMV of older drivers behaving erratically. They will bring them in and make them take the driver's test again. It started after that guy crashed his car into the farmer's market in Santa Monica.

[Dr_Snooz]

Yep. Here it is.

http://dmv.ca.gov/pubs/brochures/fast_facts/ffdl10.htm

[88Sleeper]

get a piece of foam,put it on the roof, and use a set of ratcheting tie down straps, I would be suprised if the van doesn't have a luggage rack to anchor to

Its a 93 Toyota Previa, without a roof rack :mad: Instead, they came up with the great idea of "dual sunroofs" what they should of called it: "Toyota Greenhouse van" (or something like that, it just makes the inside hot as hell if you leave it outside for more than 20 min.)

But that is a very good idea! I will have to try it if it really won't fit inside.

[88Sleeper]

I went out to the JY today, and I got lucky since they had around 8 3Gs lying around. A lot of 87's and a couple of 88's and 89's. They even had 2-3 LX-is; but no se-i :crying:

I did manage to find one good Right headlight, the grill (which I can't believe I got charged $35 for!! :mad:) and a few cosmetic things on the bumper (got them w/o paying, so it makes makes up for the grill :cheers: ) and the middle part over the radiator. I only found one hood that wasn't bent or dented on an 87, but the paint was completely faded and I wasn't sure if it was the same size of hood?

Do the 86-89's all have the same hood?? It looked kind of funky to me, when I compared it to the other 88 LX out there.

I was also surprised that they had an 88 LX that somebody had basically brought in and left for salvage, and all it had was a cut on the right side of the bumper :uh: oh well, my gain...) The thing is that most of the doors and fenders and bumper on it were in super perfect condition (although no honda emblem on the trunk, as none of the 3Gs there had it...?) I was thinking I should snag as many of the doors/fenders/trunks there so I can strip them, repaint them, and then swap them out for my rusted/dented ones :D )

One small question is whether or not the Cruise Control switch is basically the same thing as the OEM foglight switch? at least on pinouts?? None of the accords there had a foglight switch, so I was thinking I could just wire up another CC switch to a set of fogs. I know it won't be the "cool oem honda thing" but it should work, right?

The last thing that was awesome was that 3-4 of the 3G's there had OEM moonroofs :) I saw on another thread that you actually CAN just cut a good hole in the roof and install an aftermarket roof... but why bother with aftermarket when you could possibly just strip enough good moonroof parts from 3-4 donors and then just install an OEM roof?? Im talking about the entire window/seals/motor, then the entire roof of the 3G with the sliding window cover, the wiring, etc. Is this possible? or just a pipe dream for some random reason dealing with the fact that there is some "mystery" part missing from my LX??

I just remembered that the other thing I was going to ask was about how picky I should be on a front end from an LX-i? I am going to assume it HAS to be 88-89 year, LX-i or SE-i. But does it matter what condition it is in? and do I basically need everything including the wheel hub and all of the metal arms going to the frame, chassis, CV joint, strut, etc? Most of the ones there were rusted, and even when I kicked the studs the hubs wouldn't budge. A lot of them had bent dust shields? Should I care how it looks, or just find one that looks like it hasn't been hit, and just take it for what it is?

Since it might take a while to do all of the mods to the hubs/brakes, including possibly rebuilding them, I am thinking it would be better to keep running on the ones I have now; mod the new ones off of the car until I have a full assembly that is ready to just throw on the car, and swap them out when I want?

*if it sounds like Im rambling, then I apologize, since I probably am, lol* :wave:

[Vanilla Sky]

You really only need the spindles and caliper brackets. You can send your old brake calipers in as cores when you exchange. I'd go ahead and replace the hub bearing while you're at it for peace of mind and reliability in the future.