Lowering spring stiffness % over stock spring stiffness

[Jims 86LXI HB]

I was helping a member understand something about a certain spring by showing it's spring rates vs stock spring rates by showing it's percentage of increase over stock. I went ahead and did it for all the one's I have rates for. I did not do the eibach prokit or the sprints since the rate info I have is not the same rating system as the other's. I will call eibach and ask how I may figure out a way to rate them equally to the others, (I'll use that system for the sprints as well).

Notice the front to rear rate differences. Increasing the rear rate more than the front will reduce understeer. Increase the front MORE than the rear and you will have more understeer. Also take note of how much more spring power you'll be asking your struts to control

Brand front&rear %+ over stock

Tokico 1" front 66% rear 63%

Susp Tech 1" front 62% rear 54%

Eibach sp lines front 62% rear -32% (low figure double verified)
Eibach prokits front 44% rear -17%
*See note below on eibach spring rates

Neuspeed&
H&R 1.5" front 26% rear 41% (softest lowering spring ava.)

Progress 2" group front 70% rear 205%

B&G 1.6" front 66% rear 205%

Suspen techniques
speed tech 2" front 73% rear 196%

sprint
2.25" front 66% rear 192%

Ground-Control front 61% rear 214%

Dropzone coilovers front 213% rear 300%

Spring tech coilovers front 213% rear 300%

*After talking to eibach to find out how to rate the prokit's they said that the first spring rate they gave me should be equal to how the other spring makers gave out their spring rates. So, the prokits are front 308lbs to 742lbs rear 97lbs to 200lbs. The first numbers are with the car's weight resting on the springs. The second number when the spring is fully compressed. It should be noted that with the sportlines the absolute max stiffness their rear springs can do is only 21% stiffer than stock and that's when the spring is full compressed. Most aftermarket rear springs start off being stiffer without being compressed at all.

[Site]

Originally posted by Jims 86LXI HB
Notice the front to rear rate differences. Increasing the rear rate more than the front will reduce understeer. Increase the front MORE than the rear and you will have more understeer.

So that would make H&R, Neuspeed, B&G and all coilovers more desirable for handling - correct?

With the H&Rs & Neuspeeds being the softest - does that mean that they would not be good for strong cornering?

Thanks, Jim, for always being willing to share what you know!

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Well I think that 9 out of 10 people will be happy with the stiffness of the H&R's. If was only when I was flying and really pushing things that I'd wish I had stiffer springs and stiffer strut valving. If you never push things to 10/10's (like me) they are just fine. If I hadn't wrecked my car I'd be on ground-controls that are stiffer than stock one's and with my revalved Bilsteins.
I'm sure I would be happy with standard GC's, but figured that if I was paying for them, I'd might as well kick'em up yet another notch;)

[Site]

I've been wanting to try the B&Gs out. My concern is that one of the guys on the board has them and instead of dropping 1.6 in, they dropped well over 2 in. I'm really wanting to get into AutoXing, so I need strong cornering (hence my desire to try B&Gs), but I don't really wanna drop much more than 1.5 in.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by Site
I've been wanting to try the B&Gs out. My concern is that one of the guys on the board has them and instead of dropping 1.6 in, they dropped well over 2 in. I'm really wanting to get into AutoXing, so I need strong cornering (hence my desire to try B&Gs), but I don't really wanna drop much more than 1.5 in.

Yeah I know what you mean. Just don't understand why they did that to markmdz89hatch. I fully surport you not wanting to go below 1.5". Yeah I think our car's look better below that, but if you want to kick it up a notch at the track I think it makes more sense to be at 1.5". Unfortunately I think ground-controls would be the way to go, unless you think you can beat the odds that the B&G's will give you the 1.6" drop their surposed to do.

[88LXi68]

Jim...
I helped lower Mark's car and we were both shocked at the outcome, but I later went to B&G's site and it lists the drop for our cars at 40mm. Now I am NOT certain, but when my friend wanted to lower his VW he always talked about 40mm 60mm kits etc. I remember him saying 40mm was around 2.25 drop. I could be wrong though.

On another the note, I noticed that the b&gs dont have the usual front end higher than the rear like most lowering springs for our cars. It was pretty even.

[WhiteSpecV]

You guys should take a ride in a Spec V. It has the stiffest spring rates available from Nissan in a Sentra (or Maxima, or Altima, and even on par with the Z, though the handling will never compete with a Z).

Anyway, the rates are 300lb/in for the front and 375 lb/in for the rear. Most spec owners would rather have softer springs and better struts, but oh well...

Don't go stiffer than you absolutely need. It's a trade off you may not want.

-Joe-

[Site]

Originally posted by 88LXi68
Jim...
I helped lower Mark's car and we were both shocked at the outcome, but I later went to B&G's site and it lists the drop for our cars at 40mm. Now I am NOT certain, but when my friend wanted to lower his VW he always talked about 40mm 60mm kits etc. I remember him saying 40mm was around 2.25 drop. I could be wrong though.

40 millimeter = 1.57 inch

I may try the B&Gs if I will be able to return them if I'm not satisfied. I'll check into it.

[RCracer]

I have the euro versions of the H&R's with Koni specials (reds) and can totally aggree with Jim about being happy with them.
H&R's with Konis make a great combination.
It will be interesting to see how they cope when I get the B20a in.

[marc49]

hey, jim, what is the rates for eibach's pro kit springs?

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by marc49
hey, jim, what is the rates for eibach's pro kit springs?


front 308 to742 rear97 to 200

Which reminds me I need to call them so I can know how to rate them with the same system that the other makers use, to have true comparison. Pretty sure the the numbers mean this,
308='s no weight on the spring. 742='s fully compressed.
which leads me to believe that the fronts are not progresive.

I wonder if half way between them is the figure I want.
Which would mean front 525 rear 149 But I REALLY doubt that, least in the front. I'll really try and call eibach tommarow. I always enjoy talking to them, good people.

[87AccordsterLx]

any idea about the sprint 2.25 in ???

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by 87AccordsterLx
any idea about the sprint 2.25 in ???


I've got the same problem with the sprints as the prokits, the spring rates are not listed in terms of one rate for the front or rear.
front 350 to 425 rear 225 to 300

[87AccordsterLx]

hmm... damn if its 425 then Im really going to need some high quailty seat cushions..... even 350 sounds pretty rough doesnt it?? How harsh do you think the sprints will ride with koni's all around or maybe koni's and tokicos in the rear...???

[jlaccord89lxi]

Originally posted by 88LXi68
Jim...
I helped lower Mark's car and we were both shocked at the outcome, but I later went to B&G's site and it lists the drop for our cars at 40mm. Now I am NOT certain, but when my friend wanted to lower his VW he always talked about 40mm 60mm kits etc. I remember him saying 40mm was around 2.25 drop. I could be wrong though.

On another the note, I noticed that the b&gs dont have the usual front end higher than the rear like most lowering springs for our cars. It was pretty even.

for future conversion reference... 1" = 2.54cm = 25.4mm (basically: 1 inch = 25.4 millimeters) i grew up with metric but was an assistant carpenter for 4 summers so i know the conversions. Its Canadian :D

[KaMiKaZeE]

Any idea of how the handling balance with the Sprints is affected and whether they are more or less stiff than the Suspen. Techs?

Does anyone have the sprints? How do they ride and handle? Do you bottom out on speedbumps? Any info is appreciated as I am thinking of the sprints for my car. :D

[87AccordsterLx]

same here.. I bought them but I havent saved up enough to get the Koni's yet so they're just sitting in the garage...

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by KaMiKaZeE
Any idea of how the handling balance with the Sprints is affected and whether they are more or less stiff than the Suspen. Techs?

Does anyone have the sprints? How do they ride and handle? Do you bottom out on speedbumps? Any info is appreciated as I am thinking of the sprints for my car. :D

I really do advise some caution with any answer you might get. I think that the majority of sprint owners were chasing appearance allot more than handling or how the car rode and drove. Just my observation, anyone can freely disagree, not a problem.:cool: :werd:

While being on the same subject, since you mention handling. I'd be inclined to like the extra 1/4" of suspension travel with the S/T springs and they are a smidge stiffer as well. Just my 2 cents.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Ok I updated the very first page with all the info. I spoke to Eibach and I've added the prokit information and the sprint information. The chart no show's how much stiffer or (gulp) softer than stock those springs are.

[KaMiKaZeE]

Thanks for the info Jim. You are a valuable asset here. I think I am gonna go with the Suspension Techs.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by KaMiKaZeE
Thanks for the info Jim. You are a valuable asset here. I think I am gonna go with the Suspension Techs.

Thanks, just trying to help out.;)

[AZmike]

Jim, could you list the drop associated with each spring set and whether they are linear or progressive (stock too).

Also, is there any news on running the 1st generation Integra AGXs?

Thanks

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by 89LXi4dr
Jim, could you list the drop associated with each spring set and whether they are linear or progressive (stock too).

Also, is there any news on running the 1st generation Integra AGXs?

Thanks

Ok I went back and edited the original post and added in the drop amounts. The tokico, eibach sportline, suspension techniques 2" speed tech springs have front linear, rear progressive springs. I'm not sure about the fronts on the B&G's and progress groups springs. The H&R's/Neuspeeds and Eibach prokits, ans suspension techniques 1" drop springs are progressive front and rear. The ground-controls and drop zone coilovers are linear front and rear.

On the 2nd & 3rd gen struts (not 1st gen teg) markmdz89hatch had a conversation with koni about possibly using them on his accord. Based on the conversation, it doesn't look possible. But I'm not totally writting them off. When I can find a 88-89 civic or 90-93 teg at the junk yard I'm going to pull a 1 each front and rear strut/spring assemblies. Plus I'm going to snag a pinch fork as well for the front. I'll compair them with my eyes and on the car. Have know idea when I might be able to get around to that.

[BMS]

If you want to try the H&R springs, but find that they are not stiff enough you can always opt for a set of polyeurothane bushings. A set for all four corners is usually less than 30$, and they give you a stiffer ride with more steering response.

[anchovies]

Originally posted by BMS
A set for all four corners is usually less than 30$, and they give you a stiffer ride with more steering response.
If you can find any, let us know.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by BMS
If you want to try the H&R springs, but find that they are not stiff enough you can always opt for a set of polyeurothane bushings. A set for all four corners is usually less than 30$, and they give you a stiffer ride with more steering response.

Installing poly bushings will not have any effect in increasing the effective spring rates your springs offer. They will reduce waisted energy and transmit action into motion much quicker. Poly sway bar bushings do not make the bar stiffer, they speed up the responce time by not having to compress the soft rubber before for the bar is asked to do it's job of resisting bending.

If you figure out a spring isn't stiff enough and you know it's not a case of under dampning, the only way to fix the problem is to increase you spring stiffness.

[markmdz89hatch]

ok so can someone tell me why this is the first time I've seen this thread? Jim, in answer to ur Q about linear or progressive up front on the b&g's I'm almost positive they're progressive.

site, in response to ur post about getting the B&G's, I have to say go for it. They're definitly worth it. I'll be putting a set on my next 3G that I decide to modify. Mine were factory defects, but only in drop length, not stiffness, and the B&G's along with a nice compliment of Koni's at all 4, and you've got urself a go-cart. Only suggestion would be to eventualy think about revalving the Koni's or getting revalved Billsteins up front to better suit the hard spring rate up front.

[Site]

Thanks for answering that question for me! I'm glad to hear (well, not for your sake, LOL) that yours were factory defects. I was starting to think the only option I had for a 1.5 in drop for a motorsports setup was to go with coilovers.

[bobafett]

hmm, i have the H&R's now, but i think i would rather have B&Gs since they make the car look more even and lower a bit more than 1.5"/... then again i would have to buy a camber kit after that... :(

[Site]

H&Rs lower the car 1.5 inch. B&Gs lower it 1.6 inch. I don't think the diff is noticeable.

[AccordSi]

I ran the B&G's for several months before I decided to go with the coilovers for greater control of my suspension. I must admit that the B&G's were a really great ride. Talk about comfort....and the car was one level. It did state that I was gonna get a 40mm drop but after the install, my car was dropped by 2.25".

[bobafett]

Originally posted by Site
H&Rs lower the car 1.5 inch. B&Gs lower it 1.6 inch. I don't think the diff is noticeable.

i thought people were saying it dropped them MORE then 2" thats the only reason i would go with them over the H&R's which i do really like!

[doug]

usually I read about ground control or skunk2 in the forums online. people with GC say they are great and skunk2's suck or people that ride with skunk2 say GC sucks. These two seem to be two of big players in the coilover market. I've seen Jims guide to rates lists the GC but not the skunk2 spring rates. Anyone have info on the spring rates of the skunk2s? Would the koni front and tokico rear setup be enough to ride the skunk2 kit?
Thanks.

[dXsquared]

how come the stiffer springs are in the front and sometimes they go in the back???

Travis

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by DXHATCHBACK
how come the stiffer springs are in the front and sometimes they go in the back???

Travis

You asked the same question in another post, here's the link to the answer. No 3rd gen spring is stiffer in the rear than the front.

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=109487#post109487

[anchovies]

Originally posted by doug
Anyone have info on the spring rates of the skunk2s?

They don't make skunk2 springs or coilovers for 3geez.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by doug
usually I read about ground control or skunk2 in the forums online. people with GC say they are great and skunk2's suck or people that ride with skunk2 say GC sucks. These two seem to be two of big players in the coilover market. I've seen Jims guide to rates lists the GC but not the skunk2 spring rates. Anyone have info on the spring rates of the skunk2s? Would the koni front and tokico rear setup be enough to ride the skunk2 kit?
Thanks.

I was just on a site that mentioned what the rates were, but I think they were speaking in general terms(it was a online store), not model specific. They said 500lbs front and 400lbs, which would mean custom revalved struts and frankly, to stiff for even my hard charging hide:D Now those rates do kinda make sense, I see people on other forums whining and crying that the skunk's are terrible and have bounce. When will someone tell them the coilovers are fine, it's the sucky struts their running thats the problem.

But, with the skunk's being so close in price to the GC it makes them a hard sell. In all the forum's I visit the GC's are the overwhelming favorite by a commanding margin. But in fairness, skunk2 should be called to verify their spring rates for the 90-97 accord coilover. I would NOT recommend them for use with Koni's if they are stiffer than the GC's, getting revalved Bilsteins or revalved Koni's would be the thing to do if they are stiffer.

The SKUNK2 coilovers are for 90-97 accords, but can be used on our cars.

[doug]

Jim,
if the spring is stiff then the compression is low which would mean less action on the strut, right?

[markmdz89hatch]

Originally posted by doug
Jim,
if the spring is stiff then the compression is low which would mean less action on the strut, right?

Sure, due to the stiffer spring, it's harder to compress. Anything stiffer then stock will, regardless of "drop", provide less suspension travel then the stock setup. So, it's true that the strut has to compress a lesser amount, but it's valving is what will be the controlling factor in rebound. If the valving or rebound of the strut is not built to handle the greater spring rate, then the spring itself, upon rebound, will overpower the strut, and it's ablility to dampen the rebound. This basically allows the spring complete control of how the car rides. Running an undervalved strut will always allow the spring to control the ride. This is what results in the "bounce". Jim, did I mess up on that, or is it basically correct? I'm kinda new at this, only had a few conversations with Koni, and you so far, so I'm certainly not as well versed in this department just yet.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by doug
Jim,
if the spring is stiff then the compression is low which would mean less action on the strut, right?

Please ask your question in a different way, reword it please. I'm not understanding what your asking. I'm thinking 2 possibilities and both of them are a the opposite end of the suspension universe :huh: :sadwave:

[doug]

i decided in the interest of knowledge for the board to sacrifice my blue hatch to the skunk2gods and bought a set off ebay.
(thanks ochogirl) the 90-97 set arrived. it has four identical spring, the info states that these are the standard issue for the 90-97 & 98-01 accord sets. i think these are 451 lbs/in. I have a set of konis for the front set to ship from the factory this monday and tokicos for the rear on the way. no better way to learn than to just do it. so in the next few weeks it should all come together and i'll have an idea if this setup will work.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by doug
i decided in the interest of knowledge for the board to sacrifice my blue hatch to the skunk2gods and bought a set off ebay.
(thanks ochogirl) the 90-97 set arrived. it has four identical spring, the info states that these are the standard issue for the 90-97 & 98-01 accord sets. i think these are 451 lbs/in. I have a set of konis for the front set to ship from the factory this monday and tokicos for the rear on the way. no better way to learn than to just do it. so in the next few weeks it should all come together and i'll have an idea if this setup will work.

To minimise the bounce, flat out maximize the stiffness on rebound with the koni's, that's the best you can do. Glad to see a member try them out, for your sake I hope they aren't that stiff. Based on conversation's with other koni user's and my own experience I would not run springs stiffer than the 350lbs rate that the ground-controls have. Run with them for a couple week's before you comment on how they are. Keep in find they whould never ever have bounce over bumps and undulations. And when you shove down on a bumper it should come back up and not bounce. I'm hoping you can give a honest evaluation, I see to many people claim their lowered suspension doesn't bounce, when in I know for a fact they do.

Curious, do you think the spring rates are the same front to rear? Are their front and rear springs or all they all the same?

[carotman]

To minimise bounce in the front, you can just NOT use Tokico blues :)

Imagine, I got the Neuspeed springs (the softest springs available) and my front end bounces wayyyyyy too much.

I HAVE to get koni reds now.

[kevin b]

:( i don't hear many people talk about the kyb's, is that because they suck or something. I'm thinking of going w/ either the B+g's or the s/t 2" drop, and I'm not sure which struts to go with. I was thinking i would go w/ either the kyb's or the koni's. anybody got any advice?:tongue:

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by kevin b
:( i don't hear many people talk about the kyb's, is that because they suck or something. I'm thinking of going w/ either the B+g's or the s/t 2" drop, and I'm not sure which struts to go with. I was thinking i would go w/ either the kyb's or the koni's. anybody got any advice?:tongue:

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11093

Do not use the KYB GR-2's with lowering springs. For a explanation, go to the above thread 2nd post.

Get the koni's:wave:

[87DXHatch]

So Jim, if I get a set of H&R's, and throw those along with a set of rear Koni's, and the revalved Bilsteins, on my SE-i, I would acheive a smooth ride with go-cart like handling?

Does that sound about right? I had planned to get GC's, but if I can get similar handling out of the H&R's (I know it won't be as good because the H&R's are progressive instead of linear, but I won't a comfortable car to drive, not feeling every bump in the road) then I am all for them!

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by 87DXHatch
So Jim, if I get a set of H&R's, and throw those along with a set of rear Koni's, and the revalved Bilsteins, on my SE-i, I would acheive a smooth ride with go-cart like handling?

Does that sound about right? I had planned to get GC's, but if I can get similar handling out of the H&R's (I know it won't be as good because the H&R's are progressive instead of linear, but I won't a comfortable car to drive, not feeling every bump in the road) then I am all for them!

Ok, you are thinking on the right path, but their's one big detail that I need to clear up about the revalved bilstein's.

I revalved the Bilsteins in preperation to go with stiffer than normal GC's. The Koni's are awesome with the H&R's, you don't have to get revalved Bilsteins, (but keep in mind that, yes, standard Bilstein's are to WEAK to run with lowering springs) when the stock koni's are just fine. I was going to get GC's that were 400lbs front and like 325 rear. I was testing the Bilsteins, when my car got totaled.

Running the H&R (or Neuspeed) springs with the Koni's will give you a nice firm (NOT STIFF) sporting ride. It is firmer than stock, but never harsh. It feel's as if you took your car to the honda dealer and had them install a "factory" sport suspension (if they ever had made one). You Cannot get a better ride in a 3rd gen with a lowered suspension, no other lowering spring is softer.

(Ok, in case your thinking. Why was Jim looking to install stiffer springs and strut's and walk away from his H&R's/Koni's? Here's why. When I would push the car past 9/10's on the diserted foothill road's I love to fly on, I could feel the suspension hitting the bump stop's and moving way to much. I needed more spring and more strut power to improve than I had with the H&R's and Koni's. I HIGHLY DOUBT any member would be driving to the absolute limit of car and self that I did to come to my conclusion!

Driven at 9/10's and below, the H&R/Neuspeed/Koni's are a awesome setup that I HIGHLY recommend.)

[87DXHatch]

The revalved Bilsteins with the H&R's won't be "harsh" will it?

What springs would you suggest I get with the revalved Bilsteins?

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by 87DXHatch
The revalved Bilsteins with the H&R's won't be "harsh" will it?


No their not harsh at all, but the Koni's are just fine with the H&R's. The only reason I could see you justifying the extra money for the revalved Bilstiens over the standard Koni's is for this. If you might want a stiffer setup latter on, I could see getting revalved bilsteins that could run up to 400lbs spring rates. That's what I had mine set to and they ran just fine, not harsh at all with the H&R's. That way if you wanted stiffer springs than the H&R's latter on, you'd allready be running the struts that could deal with those stiffer springs. But if you'd never do that, I cannot justify the extra expence. Revalved Bilsteins are $630 vs. $424 for the Koni's. The Koni's should be fine up to the stiffness of the Ground-control coilovers, beyond that you should go revalve.

I will say that the revalved Bilstein's did have a more expensive feel than the Koni's, they felt like someone spent more time getting the valving dynamics right.

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by 87DXHatch
What springs would you suggest I get with the revalved Bilsteins?

Well, either go with the H&R's or get the GC's. Keep in mind that the GC would be a step down in ride comfort. To some people that is a proper trade off, but not to some. I can relate the way the H&R's were as far as firmness over stock directly to how much stiffer the springs are,.....over stock. The are about 25% firmer than stock, sporty, but not stiff or harsh. The GC's are about 60% stiffer than stock, so..... But, like most all coilovers the GC are not progressive springs (H&R's are progressive), they are linear. Progressive means that the spring has a softer initial rate and as it is compressed, it goes to a firmer rate. The idea being to be soft on little bumps yet firm on bigger one's and when your cornering hard. Linear spirngs have no initial soft rate, they dish out their quoted spring rate from the moment weight is put on them. I personely would rather have linear for thier better responsiveness.

A plan B would be to get DropZone coilver's for $100, and purchase a pair of 250lbs springs from GC for $110. That would allow you to NOT use the 450lbs springs that came with the DropZones. You'd use the 350lbs springs they came with in the front and then the 250lbs springs you bought seperate, in the rear. Same spring rates as the stock CG, but with a $210 price tag, vs $329 and if you did decide to go even stiffer, you allready own some 450lbs springs. Now GC does have the best reputation in the sleave coilover business, so you'd have to ask yourself if it would be worth the $120 savings.

[Vanilla Sky]

so what's the stock spring rate? with this i can order the custom hypercoils i'm wanting

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by Vanilla Sky
so what's the stock spring rate? with this i can order the custom hypercoils i'm wanting

211lbs front 117lbs rear

[hondacowboy003]

The Koni's are awesome with the H&R's, you don't have to get revalved Bilsteins, (but keep in mind that, yes, standard Bilstein's are to WEAK to run with lowering springs) when the stock koni's are just fine. I was going to get GC's that were 400lbs front and like 325 rear. I was testing the Bilsteins, when my car got totaled.

Ok Jim, you convinced me, Ive just came back from both H&R's website and Koni's. But I have a few questions, 1) Since Koni is discontinueing the struts for our cars, what other aftermarket struts will work with the H&R springs?
2) And (I'll probably get flamed for this) will I have to get a camber kit for my car after the springs are installed?

(Im not financially stable yet to get these parts. Just trying to learn more about what I can and can't get by with on my 88 LX for future reference)

Thanks for the informative thread and keep up the good work. :)

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by hondacowboy003
Ok Jim, you convinced me, Ive just came back from both H&R's website and Koni's. But I have a few questions, 1) Since Koni is discontinueing the struts for our cars, what other aftermarket struts will work with the H&R springs?
2) And (I'll probably get flamed for this) will I have to get a camber kit for my car after the springs are installed?

(Im not financially stable yet to get these parts. Just trying to learn more about what I can and can't get by with on my 88 LX for future reference)

Thanks for the informative thread and keep up the good work. :)


Your welcome:wave:

1. Sadly, none of them are strong enough. When the Koni supply dries up for good the only option will be getting Bilstein H.D.'s and sending them back to bilstein to be revalved. That does mean more money than what you would have paid for the koni's, but you do get better struts for your extra money.

2. I take the position that 1.5" drops don't have enough negitive camber to warrant lifting a finger let along spending a dime to correct. I didn't do anything, frankly my car ended up having the most even tire wear I've every had on a FWD vehicle. Now if you want total perfection, do the prelude arm camber correcton that's outlined in the boards FAQ section.

[zerotap]

Tight looking ride KaMi are those 16" rims on your 3g ?

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Alright... so, I am looking at getting some H&R springs as soon as I get the money for them. (local shop wants $300 CDN). I think the price is fairly reasonable, and that is excactly the drop that I want.. I won't go lower.

Anyways... I am running Tokico blues all around, and I have heard from some that I will be ok, and from others that I will get huuuuge bounce. So I am just wondering... when you say it is $600 for the revalved billsteins, is that for all 4? Because I don't have a lot of money, and I think that the tokico's in the rear would probably work alright, but it would be nice to put bilsteins up front.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

And also... I have heard from some that the H&R/Nuespeed springs do not give an even drop, but some of these people have 100lbs of stereo shit in their trunks, so what other options do I have? or do people have pics of 3geez with the H&R's and an even drop.

[Bloodlust]

Ok Jim, I have been reading this thread, and i heard that Tokico Blues would not be good with H&R springs. Is this right? Because I am right about to go with this setup. If it is not ok, what would be the best setup i could do at a reasonable price?

I was thinking Koni's but i have no idea where I can get them. Could you please get a link for me if this would be a good setup? Thanks, much appreciated.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

I was actually going to ask how the Tokico Blues and the H&R Springs would work myself. That's what I'm considering on doing. I've heard that people liked that setup but I would like to hear what the Grand Master Suspension God thinks about that setup :)

Jim I haven't given up on suspension. I've been repairing mine and getting it ready to lower it. I installed all inner and outer tie rods and got new driveshafts. I will do the bushings and sway bars when I install the springs and struts.

[AZmike]

Here's what someone with that exact combination has to say about it:
(H&R rates are said to be identical to Neuspeeds)


To minimise bounce in the front, you can just NOT use Tokico blues :)

Imagine, I got the Neuspeed springs (the softest springs available) and my front end bounces wayyyyyy too much.

I HAVE to get koni reds now.

[Busted_Blue]

I'm going Tokico Springs with Tokico Blues. 1inch drop following 3xxlbs/in front and 195lb/inch rear

for some reason i think the neuspeed is too soft and will cause bounce...due to softness.

[bullard123]

Any idea of how the handling balance with the Sprints is affected and whether they are more or less stiff than the Suspen. Techs?

Does anyone have the sprints? How do they ride and handle? Do you bottom out on speedbumps? Any info is appreciated as I am thinking of the sprints for my car. :D

I have the sprint 2.25'' lowering springs. I think they have awesome handling and they don't bottom out over speed bumps, but they do bottom out when I have more than one person in the car, only on the rear passenger side. I think it might be because of the metal lip that is under the wheel well. Or it could possibly be because of the stock shocks that I still have. And not its not bouncy either. I am gonna replace my stock shocks though. And the stiffness is awesome. If you are still planning on getting the sprints I got mine from www.dragracing.com for $119.99 with free shipping.

[blazin3gen]

damn i got some B&G 1.5 springs, with stock OEM springs, it rides awesome compared to my old DZ springs. rides bumpy (little more then oem) but they do not hit hard as the dz springs


just my 2 cents on how happy i am with these springs :D

[3gn86lxi]

Any one had experience with spring tech?? I just scored a set on e-bay for $78 shipped. They say it nets a 2.50 drop in front, 2.25 in the back.
Shout if these are shit, I'm hoping that they will do well.

[night]

........

wtf. i have eibach sports on my lude, but that rear rate bugs me. a lot.
anyone know the info on the lude springs?

also... ive had these eibachs and tokico blues for a long time now. and luders have more info on whats out there? there were koni's for the car, but the rears, if they were ever made, cannot be had now. ive never had a reason to complain about the eibachs though. they should be fine now since car will be no more than 1900lbs. but i do intend on racing it on lap days.
does anyone know if the 1get teg has the rear setup like a lude? what about the 2gen accord? classic garage lists them for the rear, wonder if they would fit....

ive always dreamed of having some miata tiens or from some other light car modded to fit mine :rockon:, but the macpherson design in back is a pain.

['A20A3']

So would it be okay to use the H&R springs with stock struts, or no? I only want a mild drop, so 1 to 1.75 is all I want.

Thanks.

[Busted_Blue]

I just thought I convert the percentages to actual rates. I always thought knowing the actual pounds per inch makes the idea more real to me than a percentage. Course these numbers were just converted from the initial post and they are rounded up to the nearest one.

Stock F 211lbs R 117lbs

Tokico 1" F 350lbs R 190lbs

Susp Tech 1" F 342lbs R 180lbs

Eiabach Sportlines F 342lbs R 80lbs

Eiabach Prokits F 304lbs R 97lbs

Neuspeed & H&R 1.5" F 265lbs R 170lbs

Progress 2" F 358lbs R 357lbs

B&G 1.6" F 350lbs R 357lbs

Susp Tech 2" F 365lbs R 346lbs

Sprint 2.25" F 350lbs R 342lbs

Ground Control coilovers F 340lbs R 364lbs (There are custom rates available for these coilovers.)

Dropzone coilovers F 660lbs R 468lb

Spring Tech coilovers F 660lbs R 468lbs



now i am questioning..jim's percentages...and what they exactly mean

the ones OVER 100% stiffer are wrong...the ones under are right since I know tokico 1inch springs are correct.

Ground Control regular spring rates are F 350lbs and then R 250lbs. if we are using the 214% stiffer....this is wrong.. 250/117*100 is 214.xxx which is 214% of the stock rate. so its 114% stiffer than stock instead of 214%.

anyone have any ideas?

['A20A3']

What about the rate for these springs?

http://www.nopionline.com/nopistore/dsp_part_detail.cfm?vmakeid=140&vmodelid=010&vcatyear=1989&vnopinum=591%2B0313&vTitle=HONDA%20Accord%201989

Thanks.

['A20A3']

What about the rate for these springs?

http://www.nopionline.com/nopistore/dsp_part_detail.cfm?vmakeid=140&vmodelid=010&vcatyear=1989&vnopinum=591%2B0313&vTitle=HONDA%20Accord%201989

Thanks.

[Busted_Blue]

I emailed them... waiting for reply. :D

['A20A3']

Good looking out Busted. :bow:

[accord-ing to me]

Ok, you are thinking on the right path, but their's one big detail that I need to clear up about the revalved bilstein's.

I revalved the Bilsteins in preperation to go with stiffer than normal GC's. The Koni's are awesome with the H&R's, you don't have to get revalved Bilsteins, (but keep in mind that, yes, standard Bilstein's are to WEAK to run with lowering springs) when the stock koni's are just fine. I was going to get GC's that were 400lbs front and like 325 rear. I was testing the Bilsteins, when my car got totaled.

Running the H&R (or Neuspeed) springs with the Koni's will give you a nice firm (NOT STIFF) sporting ride. It is firmer than stock, but never harsh. It feel's as if you took your car to the honda dealer and had them install a "factory" sport suspension (if they ever had made one). You Cannot get a better ride in a 3rd gen with a lowered suspension, no other lowering spring is softer.

(Ok, in case your thinking. Why was Jim looking to install stiffer springs and strut's and walk away from his H&R's/Koni's? Here's why. When I would push the car past 9/10's on the diserted foothill road's I love to fly on, I could feel the suspension hitting the bump stop's and moving way to much. I needed more spring and more strut power to improve than I had with the H&R's and Koni's. I HIGHLY DOUBT any member would be driving to the absolute limit of car and self that I did to come to my conclusion!

Driven at 9/10's and below, the H&R/Neuspeed/Koni's are a awesome setup that I HIGHLY recommend.)

Jim,, I am very convinced that your knowledge on the suspension of the 3g's is your expertise. You have convinced me to use the Neuspeed springs for my 88 LX-i, even though I would prefer to go lower. My questions to you are
1. Would Tokico's in the rear be much different then the Koni's/ I could save $100.00, worth it?
2. In other posts I have read that lowering more the 2.25"??? you should shorten Koni's. If I use the Neuspeed 1.5" and do the fork cutting in front I should be OK with the Koni's, correct?
3. If I do the fork cutting will it bring camber issues into play?

Thank you so much for your contributions, my wife hates this site--can't get me away from it!!!! :rockon:

[accord-ing to me]

Jim,, I am very convinced that your knowledge on the suspension of the 3g's is your expertise. You have convinced me to use the Neuspeed springs for my 88 LX-i, even though I would prefer to go lower. My questions to you are
1. Would Tokico's in the rear be much different then the Koni's/ I could save $100.00, worth it?
2. In other posts I have read that lowering more the 2.25"??? you should shorten Koni's. If I use the Neuspeed 1.5" and do the fork cutting in front I should be OK with the Koni's, correct?
3. If I do the fork cutting will it bring camber issues into play?

Thank you so much for your contributions, my wife hates this site--can't get me away from it!!!! :rockon:

Well, scratch the last, the lasy set of Knoi's are gone, now it's Bilsteins or Tok's--can the Tok's be revalved?

[keruhas184]

3. If I do the fork cutting will it bring camber issues into play?


You will need to have camber correction even with a 1.5" drop. For drops less than 2", prelude upper control arms in the front with a washer trick in the back work fine. If you drop more than that, you'll need to use more expensive camber kits.

[accord-ing to me]

You will need to have camber correction even with a 1.5" drop. For drops less than 2", prelude upper control arms in the front with a washer trick in the back work fine. If you drop more than that, you'll need to use more expensive camber kits.

I think you will be outvoted on this response--1.5" requires no camber change, it's the extra .5 from the cutting I am worried about

[sporkHSP]

With H&R springs, and KONIs upfront, should I adjust them as stiff as possible, or will that hurt ride quality at all?

[AZmike]

With H&R springs, and KONIs upfront, should I adjust them as stiff as possible, or will that hurt ride quality at all?

I have my front Konis one turn from full soft with the H&Rs and am happy with it. If it was easier to adjust i might try a little more, but since you're probably runing Tokicos in the rear the extra rebound damping in the front may give you an unbalance ride. I'd recommend starting with one turn and seeing what you think of it.

[halxi]

Will the Tokico Premium Performance Struts be alright with the Neuspeed/H&R springs?

Im planning on buying the 1.5" Neuspeed drop springs, with the Tockico PP Struts up front, and HP Series for the rear. My true question is, will i tear up the struts super fast this way? Im sure its going to be a little bouncy, but im more concerned about killing my struts in 1-2 years.

[ACCORD1.8CARB]

hey sup man . i was woundering which setup i should use. i wanna get the eibach sport line springs they have a 1.5 lower on them and was woundering which struts would ride best wit them. also would a camber kit b needed? or could i just get the upper arms from a lude? i was thinking about koni's all around wit the sportline but dunno. what u think? im looking for a stiff yet comfy ride but wit the sumwhat bounce u see most cars doing like when they accel it kinda bounces like its really stiff. but dun wanna feel like i hit a curb everytime i hit a dip.

[bobafett]

Will the Tokico Premium Performance Struts be alright with the Neuspeed/H&R springs?

Im planning on buying the 1.5" Neuspeed drop springs, with the Tockico PP Struts up front, and HP Series for the rear. My true question is, will i tear up the struts super fast this way? Im sure its going to be a little bouncy, but im more concerned about killing my struts in 1-2 years.

alex 86AccordLxi had shitty OEM kyb? shocks and updraded to tokicos all around and he really liked it. i think he was lowered on h&r springs...

im running coilovers on rear tokicos. and it could be stiffer, but its tolerable.

i think it works like this: if u just want to have a lowered car then tokicos with h&r would be ok... i was suprised with how good it rode...

but if u want an awesome handling setup, i would save up and go with revalved blistiens and some coilovers...

[POS carb]

anyone tried the Intrax 1.7/1.6 springs? (35.1.001?)