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Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 01:59 PM
Have been posting around on a couple other forums to no avail.


Seems that I don't have any power besides to my Toggle switchs (Ignition, and Accessory) because the LEDs turn on when I flip them on. But when I step on my clutch they turn off, and when I turn my Dome light on they turn off.

Dome light has no power, no dash light power, no headlights, no starter clicks, nothing is engaging.


Have been at it for a month now trying to get my 1G running again. Girlfriend wants me to scrap it so we can get another car but $250 won't get me another car.

Hazwan was helping me over on Honda-Tech, but they stopped replying.

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 02:24 PM
Have been posting around on a couple other forums to no avail.


Seems that I don't have any power besides to my Toggle switchs (Ignition, and Accessory) because the LEDs turn on when I flip them on. But when I step on my clutch they turn off, and when I turn my Dome light on they turn off.

Dome light has no power, no dash light power, no headlights, no starter clicks, nothing is engaging.


Have been at it for a month now trying to get my 1G running again. Girlfriend wants me to scrap it so we can get another car but $250 won't get me another car.

Hazwan was helping me over on Honda-Tech, but they stopped replying.
thats odd he's over here what are the toggle switches for?

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 02:48 PM
thats odd he's over here what are the toggle switches for?
Toggle switches are for Ignition, and Accessory. I also installed a starter button.


Reason being these were installed as a month ago my car stopped getting power, and hasn't ran since.. I thought it could have been my ignition cylinder or ignition switch, so I went to find/buy cylinder/switch and could not find anywhere. So I installed the toggles/button in hopes it would cure my problem..


No fix, and still stuck with dead 1g :(

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 02:55 PM
Toggle switches are for Ignition, and Accessory. I also installed a starter button.


Reason being these were installed as a month ago my car stopped getting power, and hasn't ran since.. I thought it could have been my ignition cylinder or ignition switch, so I went to find/buy cylinder/switch and could not find anywhere. So I installed the toggles/button in hopes it would cure my problem..


No fix, and still stuck with dead 1g :(

have you checked all the basic stuff, battery grounds battery terminals, if the switch lights go out when you turn on the dome light it sounds like a dead battery or bad terminal

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 02:59 PM
have you checked all the basic stuff, battery grounds battery terminals, if the switch lights go out when you turn on the dome light it sounds like a dead battery or bad terminal
I've checked all the basic stuff and even started replacing stuff with the hunch that it would fix my issues...

Replaced both battery terminals and new cables for both. Cleaned ground points (negative terminal to engine pivot to chassis, valve cover to radiator mount area above headlamp)


Replaced the 55a Fusible link/main fuse. Checked for blown fuses, found one that looked fishy and replaced it.

Battery and alternator were tested and appear to be in good health

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 03:02 PM
I've checked all the basic stuff and even started replacing stuff with the hunch that it would fix my issues...

Replaced both battery terminals and new cables for both. Cleaned ground points (negative terminal to engine pivot to chassis, valve cover to radiator mount area above headlamp)


Replaced the 55a Fusible link/main fuse. Checked for blown fuses, found one that looked fishy and replaced it.

Battery and alternator were tested and appear to be in good health

the fact that the dome light isn't working either is telling me no power is getting from the battery to the car, the dome light circuit has nothing to do with the ignition circuits, some circuits should always have power, you need to get a test lamp or something and start testing, I'm thinking that junction block, is it the one with the link or without the link in it? for some reason power isn't reaching the fuse box, check all connections at your fuse box where power comes in, no reason to scrap the car this is something simple

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 03:07 PM
the fact that the dome light isn't working either is telling me no power is getting from the battery to the car, the dome light circuit has nothing to do with the ignition circuits, some circuits should always have power, you need to get a test lamp or something and start testing, I'm thinking that junction block, is it the one with the link or without the link in it? for some reason power isn't reaching the fuse box, check all connections at your fuse box where power comes in, no reason to scrap the car this is something simple
I got a multimeter (Innova 3320) and I bought a tester thing. Not positive on how to use them really.. but I think my fuse box has power?

If I go to my fuse box and find where all the wires are at start check there? I'm not positive on what exactly must be done to check, my 12v Battery test mode has only worked for battery, and my DC-V mode is wonky and shows random numbers, or shows 0, and I think when it shows 0 it means there is power. Will test it after I drop my lady off at work (borrowing a cavalier that is firing on 3 cylinders what a gas hog)

Do you know if the clutch has any electrical in it, like wiring or sensors or something? The power to my LEDs shut off when I push it in as well.. seems weird

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 03:15 PM
I got a multimeter (Innova 3320) and I bought a tester thing. Not positive on how to use them really.. but I think my fuse box has power?

If I go to my fuse box and find where all the wires are at start check there? I'm not positive on what exactly must be done to check, my 12v Battery test mode has only worked for battery, and my DC-V mode is wonky and shows random numbers, or shows 0, and I think when it shows 0 it means there is power. Will test it after I drop my lady off at work (borrowing a cavalier that is firing on 3 cylinders what a gas hog)

Do you know if the clutch has any electrical in it, like wiring or sensors or something? The power to my LEDs shut off when I push it in as well.. seems weird
no wiring or sensors or anything, it's mechanical, you have a loose connection somewhere, probably near the fuse box,it's possible the clutch being pushed moves something, somewhere on there there should be a heavy power wire coming from the battery coming into the fuse box, you need to check for voltage there, you should read around 12 volts if the battery is good, 0 means you don't have any voltage, if the junction block has only one wire try disconnecting it and jumper the wires together for a minute, I'm thinking the issue is there, if it's bad I have spares, where are you located? see if anyone else from here lives near you maby a second set of eyes will help

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 03:23 PM
no wiring or sensors or anything, it's mechanical, you have a loose connection somewhere, probably near the fuse box,it's possible the clutch being pushed moves something, somewhere on there there should be a heavy power wire coming from the battery coming into the fuse box, you need to check for voltage there, you should read around 12 volts if the battery is good, 0 means you don't have any voltage, if the junction block has only one wire try disconnecting it and jumper the wires together for a minute, I'm thinking the issue is there, if it's bad I have spares, where are you located? see if anyone else from here lives near you maby a second set of eyes will help
The battery reads 12 when I have tested it.. well 12.55-12.65

And I haven't been able to find the heavy gauge power wire I'll look again, they all for the most part seem the same to me unless its REAAALLY in there. I haven't figured out how to take my entire dash apart, just got underneath the steering column taking out.

I'm just saying my multimeter is weird.. not positive on how to use it so I really need to figure it out.. how do I test the huge wire when I find it? Cut into it put my positive on it and ground the negative?? I figured out how to use the continuity setting its easy as can be and has a bell when power goes through properly.

Thanks!

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 04:18 PM
The battery reads 12 when I have tested it.. well 12.55-12.65

And I haven't been able to find the heavy gauge power wire I'll look again, they all for the most part seem the same to me unless its REAAALLY in there. I haven't figured out how to take my entire dash apart, just got underneath the steering column taking out.

I'm just saying my multimeter is weird.. not positive on how to use it so I really need to figure it out.. how do I test the huge wire when I find it? Cut into it put my positive on it and ground the negative?? I figured out how to use the continuity setting its easy as can be and has a bell when power goes through properly.

Thanks!you don't need to cut into anything, black lead on ground red lead to one of the terminals at that wire, have you checked for voltage at any of your fuses under the dash? the fuse box will come out without removing the dash, meter on dc volts some circuits such as the lights etc will always have power, since nothing is working the issue is between the fuse box and battery

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 04:32 PM
you don't need to cut into anything, black lead on ground red lead to one of the terminals at that wire, have you checked for voltage at any of your fuses under the dash? the fuse box will come out without removing the dash, meter on dc volts some circuits such as the lights etc will always have power, since nothing is working the issue is between the fuse box and battery
Hopefully... having second thoughts about if I did my toggle wiring properly.

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 04:40 PM
Hopefully... having second thoughts about if I did my toggle wiring properly.

it won't matter nothing works, lights,dome light,hazards etc have nothing to do with that at all, there seems to be no power at the fuse box, double check your grounds

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 05:49 PM
it won't matter nothing works, lights,dome light,hazards etc have nothing to do with that at all, there seems to be no power at the fuse box, double check your grounds
It seems that a lot of my wire cluster has power but 8 fuses arent getting power. Most tge ones that arent wprking are 10A i only got 15a and 20a on me. So it will wait. They dobt seem blown. Just zero power not even to the under wires.

Wires without power are consecutively left head high, and low, right head high, and low, cooling fan, wiper washer, regulator fuel pump, turn signal ligh reverse light fuel meter. Seems that a couple arent the right amperage in cooling fan is a 25a and wipwr washer looks like a 30a. Ugh i hate tge previous owner.

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 06:20 PM
You said something about a junction block? What is it whats it look like? Jumper the wires?? Im in Oregon and trying to get ready for the 3geez meet on the 26th.

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 06:22 PM
I found this huge black thing with dozens of wires going into it. Is it suppoaed to be grounded? It has screws and mounts somewhere.. Words cannot describe my lack of knowledge

Sorry for the multiple posts, was on my phone giving updates using WiFi. It's getting dark but I learned a few more things that are problematic with the electrical. Not sure what the fix is, and still a bit stumped about a few things. Any Oregon 3geez members??? Have been offering my mechanic friends $$ if they want to come out and help me, but no replies yet.

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 07:01 PM
does this one have the block under the hood with multiple fusible links? I wish I could get ahold of a wiring diagram for this I could help you much more someone must have a diagram

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 07:36 PM
does this one have the block under the hood with multiple fusible links? I wish I could get ahold of a wiring diagram for this I could help you much more someone must have a diagram
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66299

Is the best I have found for a manual... Not sure how accurate it is, and I have not seen a fusible link box in the engine area. Only one I know of is the one off the positive battery cable.

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 08:13 PM
I'm in over my head...

2ndGenGuy
08-28-2012, 09:14 PM
It seems that a lot of my wire cluster has power but 8 fuses arent getting power. Most tge ones that arent wprking are 10A i only got 15a and 20a on me. So it will wait. They dobt seem blown. Just zero power not even to the under wires.

Wires without power are consecutively left head high, and low, right head high, and low, cooling fan, wiper washer, regulator fuel pump, turn signal ligh reverse light fuel meter. Seems that a couple arent the right amperage in cooling fan is a 25a and wipwr washer looks like a 30a. Ugh i hate tge previous owner.

That sounds right. Those won't be powered until you turn those systems on. For instance, if you turn on your headlights, that's when they should be getting power. So I'm assuming that the rest of the fuses do have power when the ignition is on?

I think the whole thing is, we are confused as to what is actually going on. I know I am. Because now you're saying you have power to some of the circuits, and I can't figure out when you do have power, what has power when, and when you don't have power.

I think to clear this all up, can you make a video and post it on YouTube? Electrical diagnosis is really difficult over the internet. You need to make the video really clear though as to what is going on.

If not, if you can answer these specific questions, this might help...

1. Does everything work before the you turn on the ignition? Your headlights? Your brake lights? Those should all work without turning on the ignition.

2. Then turn the ignition on. Don't do anything EXCEPT turn on the ignition. What happens? Do the idiot lights light up on the gauge cluster? Then check if the headlights and brake lights still work?

3. Leave the car in neutral, and try to start it. You mention that power cuts out when you push your clutch in. Will it start without the clutch pushed in? The clutch is not connected to anything electrical, so it should not affect anything. If pushing the clutch pedal in affects something, then you need to look around the clutch pedal for pinched wires. Jiggle shit around under the dash and see if things come back on or turn off and try to isolate it. Get under the hood, follow the clutch master cylinder line down to the slave cylinder, and see if the clutch lever on the transmission has any wires on it or around it that are getting pinched.

4. Push in the clutch, if the power cuts out, then when does it come back on?


EDIT: The other thing I might do is disconnect all the stereo shit. It sounds like maybe it was hacked into the car, and it could be shorting out the whole electrical system. Disconnect the amplifiers from the battery, and maybe even disconnect the radio. Also, I would be willing to bet that after your car has been sitting a couple of weeks, your battery is probably getting low again.

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 09:46 PM
That sounds right. Those won't be powered until you turn those systems on. For instance, if you turn on your headlights, that's when they should be getting power. So I'm assuming that the rest of the fuses do have power when the ignition is on?

I think the whole thing is, we are confused as to what is actually going on. I know I am. Because now you're saying you have power to some of the circuits, and I can't figure out when you do have power, what has power when, and when you don't have power.

I think to clear this all up, can you make a video and post it on YouTube? Electrical diagnosis is really difficult over the internet. You need to make the video really clear though as to what is going on.

If not, if you can answer these specific questions, this might help...

1. Does everything work before the you turn on the ignition? Your headlights? Your brake lights? Those should all work without turning on the ignition.

2. Then turn the ignition on. Don't do anything EXCEPT turn on the ignition. What happens? Do the idiot lights light up on the gauge cluster? Then check if the headlights and brake lights still work?

3. Leave the car in neutral, and try to start it. You mention that power cuts out when you push your clutch in. Will it start without the clutch pushed in? The clutch is not connected to anything electrical, so it should not affect anything. If pushing the clutch pedal in affects something, then you need to look around the clutch pedal for pinched wires. Jiggle shit around under the dash and see if things come back on or turn off and try to isolate it. Get under the hood, follow the clutch master cylinder line down to the slave cylinder, and see if the clutch lever on the transmission has any wires on it or around it that are getting pinched.

4. Push in the clutch, if the power cuts out, then when does it come back on?


EDIT: The other thing I might do is disconnect all the stereo shit. It sounds like maybe it was hacked into the car, and it could be shorting out the whole electrical system. Disconnect the amplifiers from the battery, and maybe even disconnect the radio. Also, I would be willing to bet that after your car has been sitting a couple of weeks, your battery is probably getting low again.
I'll make a video tomorrow.

1. Nope, nothing works.

2. No dummy gauge, no dashlights, no headlights or brake lights.

3. Pushing the clutch in didn't shut the power off after I moved the wires around and stuff.

4. Lets say that the clutch issue is fixed, but when I try to turn my dome light on the LEDs turn off, and when I turn the dome light off, they LEDs turn back on slowly but dimly.

All stereo shit is disconnected and removed from my car as I do not like it sitting in one spot for so long for prying eyes. Battery read 12.6V when I tested it today. It has been unplugged every time I leave the car.



Let me sum up how I see it: ZERO VISIBLE POWER besides to my toggle LEDs, lets not assume that because my ignition and accessory toggle LEDs are on that the Ignition and Accessory are being powered as well, because each toggle is basically 3 connections: Power, Load, Ground. It doesn't have to do its Load, but it is getting power and grounding enough to show LED lights functioning.



Out of the 8 fuses that are not getting power, there is a key one that isn't delivering to my Ignition switch. If I trace it backwards on the wiring diagram, it goes to my regulator. If I go forward it turns in to my Ignition..

My Black.Yellow: Cooling fan, regulator, Ignition, solenoid, coil...


Might do the video tonight depending on how face the phone charges..

Cthulhu
08-28-2012, 10:17 PM
Uploading two videos now.. they are dark, but show what I mean... Exactly as described how doing anything shuts off my toggle switches.

http://youtu.be/jvx44NcAZjQ

I didn't pre-watch these as my daughter is sleeping and I dont wanna know how loud they are.

http://youtu.be/m-AWtKmIfmM

Videos are up now.

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 10:23 PM
Uploading two videos now.. they are dark, but show what I mean... Exactly as described how doing anything shuts off my toggle switches.

I think you cut the wires from the key switch for nothing, I'm positive there is a very low voltage due to a bad connection between the fuse box and the battery, there's enough current to allow the LEDS to light,but if you try and pull anymore it can't flow in the circuit

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 10:31 PM
is this your thread on honda tech? http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3079946


did you check all these things they suggested? I still say that fusible link is bad they might look ok and not function at all have you tried to jumper it?

lostforawhile
08-28-2012, 10:41 PM
if thats your post on Honda tech and everything died when you went over a bump, I'm almost positive thats got something to do with a loose battery cable, I know you said you checked them,but thats almost always what causes this

Hazwan
08-29-2012, 04:16 AM
Sorry for disappearing but looks like lost have got you covered with the basics.

I'm out of ideas now grrrr

Cthulhu
08-29-2012, 05:30 AM
I think you cut the wires from the key switch for nothing, I'm positive there is a very low voltage due to a bad connection between the fuse box and the battery, there's enough current to allow the LEDS to light,but if you try and pull anymore it can't flow in the circuit
Starting to get that feeling as well... I've already replaced the 55A Fusible link, and both battery cables and terminals are brand new as of the problem starting. Not 100% sure it died when I went over a bump, it was more of me dropping my speeds and it just dying.


Not sure what you mean by jumpering the fuse... and I still don't know how to fix the power to my 8 fuses.

edit: Gonna test my fuses again with my toggles flipped on to see if they are getting power as well.. do the best I can to figure out what is going on, using what I have to work with as a wiring diagram.

Does anyone know where the Regulator is?

edit: Cooling fan fuse gets power when I hit my ignition toggles. I read that the cooling fan fuse also powers the ignition and ignition coil?

Still losing power when I flip dome light, headlight, hit brake. Haven't tested any other things, not a lot to this car... Pushed in and moved around most of the wires I could. Didn't find anything that seemed weird really. Month away from the meet, I got time.. just gonna be really paranoid once it gets running again. Haven't been able to find any 3geez members in Oregon. If any of you are planning overnighters, feel free to come down a day or two early and help me out. :P

2ndGenGuy
08-29-2012, 10:28 AM
Voltage regulator is on the inner fender next to the battery. It's underneath that fuse that you replaced. I am kinda running out of ideas myself.

Cthulhu
08-29-2012, 01:57 PM
Voltage regulator is on the inner fender next to the battery. It's underneath that fuse that you replaced. I am kinda running out of ideas myself.
Same boat as you... no idea what to do really. I'm gonna check the voltage regulator to see if its getting power, because it is closer to the battery.

2ndGenGuy
08-29-2012, 02:47 PM
Have you checked all the aftermarket stereo wiring for shorts? I've seen some pretty ghetto stereo work done. Unfused wiring, big gauge wiring touching the body. Was there perhaps an alarm on the car at some point?

Cthulhu
08-29-2012, 04:42 PM
Have you checked all the aftermarket stereo wiring for shorts? I've seen some pretty ghetto stereo work done. Unfused wiring, big gauge wiring touching the body. Was there perhaps an alarm on the car at some point?
I HIGHLY doubt there was an alarm on the car.. and new update: I checked the voltage regulator I think and I couldnt really find any power in it, went to go trace wires and check Ohms for an improper ground under the dash. Fuse box has no power no, and my toggles don't turn on. So it is 100% dead. I don't know what I am doing and I REALLY shouldn't be doing this, all I am good for is turning a wrench... I made the problem worse, and unknown if it was terminal.

Surprised car hasn't been towed yet.. I'm gonna push it forward a couple feet and wipe the windows of tree debris. Not sure what actions I'll take next... Asking around for Oregon 3geez members has not turned up anything for me. I'm not sure if I can justify paying $200 for a tow, and $300 to a mechanic when not everyone works on older cars.

lostforawhile
08-29-2012, 04:45 PM
I HIGHLY doubt there was an alarm on the car.. and new update: I checked the voltage regulator I think and I couldnt really find any power in it, went to go trace wires and check Ohms for an improper ground under the dash. Fuse box has no power no, and my toggles don't turn on. So it is 100% dead. I don't know what I am doing and I REALLY shouldn't be doing this, all I am good for is turning a wrench... I made the problem worse, and unknown if it was terminal.

Surprised car hasn't been towed yet.. I'm gonna push it forward a couple feet and wipe the windows of tree debris. Not sure what actions I'll take next... Asking around for Oregon 3geez members has not turned up anything for me. I'm not sure if I can justify paying $200 for a tow, and $300 to a mechanic when not everyone works on older cars.

find a way to get it home and I'll help you work through this, someone has to have the manual if I had the electrical manual check your battery voltage again maby the alternator wasn't charging and its something as simple as a dead or bad battery, you can have a terminal that looks tight be over corrosion and not function

Cthulhu
08-29-2012, 04:55 PM
find a way to get it home and I'll help you work through this, someone has to have the manual if I had the electrical manual check your battery voltage again maby the alternator wasn't charging and its something as simple as a dead or bad battery, you can have a terminal that looks tight be over corrosion and not function
Battery is at 12.56 still...

I cant afford to just replace stuff on the hunch that it will fix the car anymore... I did that already and shelled $100 on wires, cables, tools, grease, etc..

I really can't explain what is going on, and I really don't know what I am doing... I check my battery every time and everyone keeps saying check my battery... Car has to turn on for alternator to work.

conozo
08-29-2012, 05:04 PM
Can you take your battery out and bring it to an Autozone or a simlar parts store and have them test it, they will at least tell you if it doesnt have any charge.

I'm in the same boat that think either your battery is dead or there is a connection issue between your battery and main fuse box or inside the fuse box.

lostforawhile
08-29-2012, 05:05 PM
Battery is at 12.56 still...

I cant afford to just replace stuff on the hunch that it will fix the car anymore... I did that already and shelled $100 on wires, cables, tools, grease, etc..

I really can't explain what is going on, and I really don't know what I am doing... I check my battery every time and everyone keeps saying check my battery... Car has to turn on for alternator to work.

take a wire and jumper the two terminals coming into the 55 amp fuse, disconnect the battery first so you don't short them, then hook the battery up and see if the dome light etc comes on,those terminal blocks can develop issues

Cthulhu
08-29-2012, 05:10 PM
take a wire and jumper the two terminals coming into the 55 amp fuse, disconnect the battery first so you don't short them, then hook the battery up and see if the dome light etc comes on,those terminal blocks can develop issues
Take a power wire (I only got 12g from wiring toggles), strip both ends, and attach each end to the screws where the 55A is? Will this kill my new 55A Fusible link? I've only got one of these terminal block fusible links and its the one coming from my positive battery terminal.

Cthulhu
08-29-2012, 05:24 PM
Can you take your battery out and bring it to an Autozone or a simlar parts store and have them test it, they will at least tell you if it doesnt have any charge.

I'm in the same boat that think either your battery is dead or there is a connection issue between your battery and main fuse box or inside the fuse box.
been there done it already...

lostforawhile
08-29-2012, 05:36 PM
Take a power wire (I only got 12g from wiring toggles), strip both ends, and attach each end to the screws where the 55A is? Will this kill my new 55A Fusible link? I've only got one of these terminal block fusible links and its the one coming from my positive battery terminal.

no it won't kill it you are seeing if it's not allowing current to get past, didn't you say you had a test lamp? in this case that's your best option since you have a bad connection the alligator clip goes to a good ground and then start checking each terminal starting from the batty through that fusible link and keep following it, the heavy white wire, eventually you'll find a place where there is no voltage and you have found the issue, you can do this

lostforawhile
08-29-2012, 05:43 PM
has someone got an electrical diagram for this car so I can help him?

lostforawhile
08-29-2012, 05:46 PM
I just dusted off my 73-88 Accord Chiltons manual let me look at it

Cthulhu
08-29-2012, 06:02 PM
I just dusted off my 73-88 Accord Chiltons manual let me look at it
I've tried following said wires, they are shrink wrapped so its kinda hard because they split off and I've no idea what is going where.

I've got a multimeter and a test light. I've just been clipping it to the fender nut on the engine bay. The thing is.. when a wire splits off in to multiple wires, I'm not sure what I am really following.. and once it goes back behind my firewall, then what?

lostforawhile
08-29-2012, 06:10 PM
I've tried following said wires, they are shrink wrapped so its kinda hard because they split off and I've no idea what is going where.

I've got a multimeter and a test light. I've just been clipping it to the fender nut on the engine bay. The thing is.. when a wire splits off in to multiple wires, I'm not sure what I am really following.. and once it goes back behind my firewall, then what?

it splits because one goes to the alternator and one goes to the fuse box under the dash, did you test for voltage from the battery through the fusible link?

Cthulhu
08-29-2012, 06:11 PM
it splits because one goes to the alternator and one goes to the fuse box under the dash, did you test for voltage from the battery through the fusible link?
It has voltage. I didn't jumper it or anything... its pretty proper..

lostforawhile
08-29-2012, 07:04 PM
It has voltage. I didn't jumper it or anything... its pretty proper..
how do you know it has voltage,don't use the meter use the test light, the meter will register voltage even when no current can flow, jumper the link for a minute and see if the lights come on or anything

Cthulhu
08-29-2012, 08:54 PM
how do you know it has voltage,don't use the meter use the test light, the meter will register voltage even when no current can flow, jumper the link for a minute and see if the lights come on or anything
Because I have used the test light and the meter before. I'll do it in the morning, it's dark now. Updates tomorrow! Thank you

lostforawhile
08-30-2012, 04:32 AM
try jumping it with another battery,sometimes the cables partly break internally at the clamps, the digital meter will still show voltage even though the connection is bad and current won't flow through the circuit, the fact that it did this after hitting the pothole is telling me something is loose

Cthulhu
08-30-2012, 12:33 PM
try jumping it with another battery,sometimes the cables partly break internally at the clamps, the digital meter will still show voltage even though the connection is bad and current won't flow through the circuit, the fact that it did this after hitting the pothole is telling me something is loose
There was no pot hole...?

2ndGenGuy
08-30-2012, 12:54 PM
... I was wondering about that. I thought I missed something.

lostscotiaguy
08-31-2012, 11:02 PM
Have we eliminated grounding issues altogether?
Also maybe I missed it but have you been able to check the circuit that the previous owner had put those bad fuses into? I.E. I'm still wondering if those circuits got too hot somewhere and fried/melted some other wires in the process. Higher amperage = More heat. So if a bad connection had caused one fuse to blow, and he just put a higher amp fuse in, yeah the circuit might work again for a bit, but the wires carrying the juice would overheat from the extra amperage draw....possibly melting, and taking other wires with it.

I would
A: Check your main grounds around the battery...
B: Check that voltage regulator (It's the big black or brass colored box on the inner fender, right near the fusible link) a broken one could cause too much amperage (although that should pop your fusible link, or make your battery stink like hell as well from overcharging). I'll need to look up the way to test it for you but I'm doubtful it's the problem....
C: Trace (as best you can) the wiring for the circuit those toggles are bypassing....the original circuit is probably the problem, and like I said, when they fried out they may have taken other wires with them.

I still intend to do that vid man...like I promised on FB. I'm gonna walk you through some basics, and maybe point you in the right direction. I'm no wizard but I'm OK at this stuff and I'll tell you what I can. I've just been pretty busy the last few days but I still got your back! :thumbup:
Pick and Pull run tomorrow!
I need to crash, but when I'm home I will scan in the wiring schematic from an 81 (Which is confusing as hell, even when you know what you're looking at). I will also scan in the diagram of the wiring harnesses and the terminal guide. That way we can at least get an idea of where you need to look for the suspected circuits. Oh, and since I'm lazy....what circuits did those toggle switches bypass?

P.S. Even a battery showing 12 volts can be mostly dead. What counts is amperage...which sadly needs to be tested at a shop or autozone and the like. So i may have missed it but I just want your assurance that battery IS up to par (Sorry, not trying to be a doubter...just tryin to cover the bases).


Anyhow....BEDTIME!!!

lostforawhile
09-01-2012, 08:38 AM
if you can get the manuals get someone to put them on the wiki too with the other electrical manuals, if I can see a diagram I can figure it out, I still think he needs to try a jump start from another battery first.

lostscotiaguy
09-01-2012, 01:52 PM
"I still think he needs to try a jump start from another battery first."

I second that....I'm still not sold on that battery....like I said, even a mostly dead battery will put out 12 volts....remember a battery the size of your thumb can put out 9volts alone...it's amperage that counts. low amperage from a mostly dead battery would also explain the weak lights.

lostscotiaguy
09-01-2012, 03:12 PM
OK, as promised here's those schematics. I darkened them up so they look dirty but the finer points are much easier to see, you'll thank me when you zoom in. I also put some lines on the top to make it easier to match them up (They are fold-outs). Also please remember this is an 81, I doubt it makes a bit of difference but you never know....

I hope this link works....if not then please let me know!
http://imgur.com/a/9ZrfL

Cthulhu
09-01-2012, 09:39 PM
"I still think he needs to try a jump start from another battery first."

I second that....I'm still not sold on that battery....like I said, even a mostly dead battery will put out 12 volts....remember a battery the size of your thumb can put out 9volts alone...it's amperage that counts. low amperage from a mostly dead battery would also explain the weak lights.
I've already had a jump attempt. 0 power nothing different. Battery HAS been tested at autozone, and topped off/recharged. I would LOVE a legit manual.

To Lost:

A: Main grounds being under battery, valve cover to front chasis/radiator area, Alternator/starter being mounted?
B: Not sure how to test the Regulator, would love to know.
C: Not sure where to start, thinking I am just gonna cut the shrink wrap/sleeves off my engine wires, and clean everything up as best as I can.

Lost where do you suggest I start and how? Some wires dont carry power really.. I mean if I ground my voltmeter, and shove it in with a wire connecter in one of the slots 2 out of 6 maybe have power. Varies connector to connector..

2ndGenGuy
09-01-2012, 09:52 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-honda-accord-dealer-service-manual-/290768436196?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item43b3263be4&vxp=mtr

$15 plus $12 shipping. There's lots on eBay you might even find one cheaper. I have one for all my cars. You can't beat a printed, factory manual!

lostforawhile
09-01-2012, 10:07 PM
I've already had a jump attempt. 0 power nothing different. Battery HAS been tested at autozone, and topped off/recharged. I would LOVE a legit manual.

To Lost:

A: Main grounds being under battery, valve cover to front chasis/radiator area, Alternator/starter being mounted?
B: Not sure how to test the Regulator, would love to know.
C: Not sure where to start, thinking I am just gonna cut the shrink wrap/sleeves off my engine wires, and clean everything up as best as I can.

Lost where do you suggest I start and how? Some wires dont carry power really.. I mean if I ground my voltmeter, and shove it in with a wire connecter in one of the slots 2 out of 6 maybe have power. Varies connector to connector..

you are over complicating this, you have a bad connection somewhere between the battery and fuse box, it will register voltage, but the connection has too much resistance and can't carry current, it's got to be a ground or battery terminal, have you replaced the battery terminals? and autozone battery tests don't mean crap, dont go near them for anything electrical

Cthulhu
09-02-2012, 06:33 PM
you are over complicating this, you have a bad connection somewhere between the battery and fuse box, it will register voltage, but the connection has too much resistance and can't carry current, it's got to be a ground or battery terminal, have you replaced the battery terminals? and autozone battery tests don't mean crap, dont go near them for anything electrical
alright.. leaving autozone out of the equation, I have replaced both terminals and cables, cleaned grounds, etc.


Neighbor looked at my car and went over everything in detail, he said hes almost positive it is my voltage regulator and it could also be called a starter relay. Does it have a starter relay? Which would it be called? Two separate things?

lostforawhile
09-02-2012, 07:05 PM
alright.. leaving autozone out of the equation, I have replaced both terminals and cables, cleaned grounds, etc.


Neighbor looked at my car and went over everything in detail, he said hes almost positive it is my voltage regulator and it could also be called a starter relay. Does it have a starter relay? Which would it be called? Two separate things?

if the battery is charged, the voltage regulator wouldn't affect everything in your car being dead, it would only affect the alternator charging, i need to look at the diagram, but again a starter relay won't affect the entire car being dead

lostscotiaguy
09-04-2012, 11:09 AM
Sorry no vid yet (i'm trying to brush up on my electrical diagnosis)....but this might help in the meantime:

http://www.vernco.com/Sparks/id606.htm

Oh, and I agree with Lostforawhiles comments....voltage regulator and starter relay wont effect anything. You say you have voltage going through the fusible link, and that your grounds are good, my only other assumption would be under your dash....any wiring that goes near your clutch pedal should be checked. It may be all wrapped up in a protective sheath but it might still be worth cutting it open so you can check out the wires inside. You can always re-wrap them with tape or that plastic wiring wrap stuff, I know you're on a budget but that stuffs pretty cheap.

1GCustomAccord
09-04-2012, 01:03 PM
Do you really need to start your engine? Then connect a wire to the + (positive) terminal on the ignition coil marked with a number 15, with the other end going to the positive bettery terminal. You can hook a switch in the wire so you can shut engine off.
Then you will see your dash lights on and you will hear the fuel pump running. You can start the engine now. If the starter motor is not working, and you have manual gearbox, you can ask a friend (or two) to push the car and then start in 2nd.
Then in your home you will have time to fix the issue.
Remember to disconnect the cable from the positive lead on the battery and the ignition coil.

I also recommend you not to use the multimeter as the first testing tool, is just making things worse and harder to check. Get a TEST LIGHT. You can SEE the problem with one of those.
Lighted=POWER Unlit=No power.
Connect the black lead (gator maybe) to ground and start touching the connections with the other lead, start with the battery to check the tool an go checking power in all the "checking points", in every place the wire is going from the 55amp main fuse.

lostforawhile
09-05-2012, 04:10 AM
find a piece of wire, make sure the car is in neutral, and use it to jump the starter solenoid wire directly to the battery, the smaller wire, touch it to the battery and see if the car turns over, this will tell you quick if the battery terminals grounds battery are good

Hazwan
09-05-2012, 06:10 AM
Do you really need to start your engine? Then connect a wire to the + (positive) terminal on the ignition coil marked with a number 15, with the other end going to the positive bettery terminal. You can hook a switch in the wire so you can shut engine off.
Then you will see your dash lights on and you will hear the fuel pump running. You can start the engine now. If the starter motor is not working, and you have manual gearbox, you can ask a friend (or two) to push the car and then start in 2nd.
Then in your home you will have time to fix the issue.
Remember to disconnect the cable from the positive lead on the battery and the ignition coil.

I also recommend you not to use the multimeter as the first testing tool, is just making things worse and harder to check. Get a TEST LIGHT. You can SEE the problem with one of those.
Lighted=POWER Unlit=No power.
Connect the black lead (gator maybe) to ground and start touching the connections with the other lead, start with the battery to check the tool an go checking power in all the "checking points", in every place the wire is going from the 55amp main fuse.

Do this.

There is no starter relay but yes, do what they said by jumping the starter solenoid directly and it should work. If that fails then its either the main battery to chassis ground or its the battery itself.

Cthulhu
09-05-2012, 08:01 AM
Damnit.. cop rudely banged on my door just a couple mins ago waking me up.. its just a little before 9am.. so early.

Said hes putting a 24 hour notice on it, and then it is getting towed. FML!

I'll try these last two options. It's al I have left at the moment, as I am out of ideas. If it gets power by toggling the ignition coil positive (number 15) to positive battery terminal then we should be good. I've already tried cross jumping the starter, it doesnt start the car but the starter does engage and start cranking.

2ndGenGuy
09-05-2012, 08:34 AM
9am, so early? LOL

Can't you just move it somewhere? Like a driveway or parking spot?

Good luck with the last ditch efforts!

Cthulhu
09-05-2012, 10:34 AM
9am, so early? LOL

Can't you just move it somewhere? Like a driveway or parking spot?

Good luck with the last ditch efforts!
Can't find a place to have it towed. My Mechanic is out of town for another week...

I assumed the blue wire was power and the black.yellow was the ground or something on the ignition coil and the big ass plug/wire/tube thing going into the coil on the engine wasnt really anything (not sure what it is really)

I hooked a 12g power wire (extras from my toggle switches) to the positive terminal and the other end to the blue wire assuming it was power and my wipers started moving!!!!! I left the switch on messing around with stuff trying to figure out what works, and they havent worked. I hooked up another 12g wire to positive and the other end to the starter, it started cranking but wouldnt fire up. Progress?? Is my ignition coil bad? I''m gonna go back and tighten down the wire to the ignition coil and probably splice in a toggle.. think I have an extra lying around in the honda.


What do I do? Did I have a break through??

1GCustomAccord
09-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Can't find a place to have it towed. My Mechanic is out of town for another week...

I assumed the blue wire was power and the black.yellow was the ground or something on the ignition coil and the big ass plug/wire/tube thing going into the coil on the engine wasnt really anything (not sure what it is really)

I hooked a 12g power wire (extras from my toggle switches) to the positive terminal and the other end to the blue wire assuming it was power and my wipers started moving!!!!! I left the switch on messing around with stuff trying to figure out what works, and they havent worked. I hooked up another 12g wire to positive and the other end to the starter, it started cranking but wouldnt fire up. Progress?? Is my ignition coil bad? I''m gonna go back and tighten down the wire to the ignition coil and probably splice in a toggle.. think I have an extra lying around in the honda.


What do I do? Did I have a break through??

Lol..

The black yellow is infact the positive (15), assuming is not good in this business!

Blue is the ignition signal, dont connect anything there...

OK, the big ass wire going from the middle of the coil to the distributor is the one sending the spark to the spark plugs. Leave it alone for now.

If your wipers start moving, that means the wiper switch in your steering column is activated. Turn it off.

Feed the #15 (BLACK & YELLOW wire) and do the following checks:

Your red dash indicators should lit.
You should hear the fuel pump close to the rear left wheel clicking.

If everything is ok, the crank the starter and start that engine.

I'll be here if you need some more advice.

Or you can mail me is anything is not working as intended. [email protected].

Good luck.

Hazwan
09-05-2012, 04:40 PM
I still think that its your white, fat main power wire to the fusebox under the dash seeing how everything else works when you jumped them.

How exactly did you hook up your toggle switches?

This is how it should work on the ignition switch:

White > white/red (acc)
White > black/yellow (ign)
White > black/white (if im not mistaken?? - start)

White is main batt + obviously. You should try jumping the white cable on the ignition switch directly to the battery power and see if it works.

Cthulhu
09-05-2012, 07:40 PM
Lol..

The black yellow is infact the positive (15), assuming is not good in this business!

Blue is the ignition signal, dont connect anything there...

OK, the big ass wire going from the middle of the coil to the distributor is the one sending the spark to the spark plugs. Leave it alone for now.

If your wipers start moving, that means the wiper switch in your steering column is activated. Turn it off.

Feed the #15 (BLACK & YELLOW wire) and do the following checks:

Your red dash indicators should lit.
You should hear the fuel pump close to the rear left wheel clicking.

If everything is ok, the crank the starter and start that engine.

I'll be here if you need some more advice.

Or you can mail me is anything is not working as intended. [email protected].

Good luck.
Nah the black yellow didnt work. Was kind of hoping it would have. It sounds good to hear my engine crank.. just wish it would turn over and fire up.. Its been awhile.. I moved it so it wouldnt get towed, owner of the place I live is giving me 2 days.


Ugh....

Cthulhu
09-05-2012, 07:45 PM
I still think that its your white, fat main power wire to the fusebox under the dash seeing how everything else works when you jumped them.

How exactly did you hook up your toggle switches?

This is how it should work on the ignition switch:

White > white/red (acc)
White > black/yellow (ign)
White > black/white (if im not mistaken?? - start)

White is main batt + obviously. You should try jumping the white cable on the ignition switch directly to the battery power and see if it works.
I cut open my wire harness in a few spots that look like major shit and didnt find any burns at all. Not sure how deep the issue is. My fuses are good, don't know if they are getting power at the moment...

3 switches

2 toggles

1 starter button

toggle one: power (white) load (ignition) ground
toggle two: power (white) load (acc) ground
starter button: ignition, starter

does starter button need a power source? Does it need a ground source? It has two prong screw thingys..

Should I unwrap the starter button and the ignition toggle and cross the power wire over to the starter wire? (should have fuckin labeled these, black and red wires only)

Cthulhu
09-05-2012, 07:47 PM
Pretty sure if I just put a power wire on the starter wire it will just be like cross jumping the starter itself, which doesnt turn the engine on.

1GCustomAccord
09-05-2012, 09:30 PM
Ok... lets put things this way: If you feed the black and yellow wire +, and everything else is not messed up, is like your original ignition switch is still in place.
Then you should have spark at your dist. If you have fuel flowing to your carb, it should start, no rocket science here.

Anyways, glad you moved the car so it wont be towed.

lostscotiaguy
09-06-2012, 12:03 AM
If your key's not in the running position it wont run!!! Even if you jump the starter directly....god this s**t is tense! and those toggles are confusing the hell out of me...I'm so lost.

Hazwan
09-06-2012, 04:31 AM
If your key's not in the running position it wont run!!! Even if you jump the starter directly....god this s**t is tense! and those toggles are confusing the hell out of me...I'm so lost.

Me too :(

lostscotiaguy
09-06-2012, 10:46 AM
Maybe I missed it, but where are you Cthulu?

lostforawhile
09-06-2012, 03:04 PM
If your key's not in the running position it wont run!!! Even if you jump the starter directly....god this s**t is tense! and those toggles are confusing the hell out of me...I'm so lost.

I was suggesting he jump the starter just to see if the battery and cables are in good condition

lostforawhile
09-06-2012, 03:05 PM
may I suggest hooking the key switch back up and seeing if it runs

1GCustomAccord
09-06-2012, 04:02 PM
If your key's not in the running position it wont run!!! Even if you jump the starter directly....god this s**t is tense! and those toggles are confusing the hell out of me...I'm so lost.

If you hook a wire from the black and yellow ignition coil wire to the positive post of battery and jump the starter it will fire right up. You can remove the ignition key, you can unplug the ignition lock but the thing will start anyway. You can check it for yourself.

2ndGenGuy
09-06-2012, 04:20 PM
Fuck, and all this time, I've been stealing cars by hotwiring under the dash. This seems so much easier!

HAha, it makes sense though. When you turn on the key, you are basically just powering on the ignition. Jumping + to the coil would just send power back through the wiring the other way.

lostscotiaguy
09-06-2012, 05:15 PM
"If you hook a wire from the black and yellow ignition coil wire to the positive post of battery and jump the starter it will fire right up. You can remove the ignition key, you can unplug the ignition lock but the thing will start anyway. You can check it for yourself."

My statement was made with the assumption that nothing else was "jumped" besides the starter circuit.

At this point I'm so lost as to what has been done with the wires that I don't have a sweet f***ing clue what's wired to what anymore.... :dunno:
My only suggestion would be that he remove all the "fast and the furious" wiring (start button) and see if it'll run with the normal set-up.
Don't get me wrong, customization is cool, and I wouldn't even mind something like a start button (assuming it wasn't a cheap looking 5$ Ebay special) but I'm thinking that whoever did all of it knew just enough about electrical work to be dangerous....which has also led to poor Cthulu's frustration, and hopefully not the loss of his vehicle. It's obviously hard enough troubleshooting electrical gremlins without "being there" but it's bad enough when you're also trying to take into account weird EXTRA wiring while you're at it. Sorry if I sound frustrated but I just wish I could help him. I'd hate to see another 1st gen go to waste over an easily fixed problem that's just hard to diagnose. :sad2:

Dr_Snooz
09-06-2012, 07:20 PM
Test post.

Dr_Snooz
09-06-2012, 07:21 PM
Holy crap! It worked!

Dr_Snooz
09-06-2012, 07:48 PM
Sorry. I tried to post to this thread days ago, but the site would have none of it.

Some random, disconnected thoughts:

I suspect you have either a resistance problem or a loose connection. Possibly both at the same time.

I had wiring trouble with my '76 Accord. If I replaced the heater blower motor fuse, it would run for 15 minutes or so and then blow, but not in the usual way. There was so much resistance in the fuse clip that it would heat up and literally melt the end off the fuse. The fuse would look fine, but would disintegrate when you went to remove it. The plastic case around the offending fuse clip melted from the heat. As you work, be aware of any corrosion in or around wires and connections. Also be aware of any loose connections or any signs of heat, like discolored wires or melted wire insulation. A best practice for wire connections is to ensure a clean metal connection by filing or sanding down to bare metal if needed. Then smear the metal with dielectric grease before putting back together, then coat any exposed metal with more dielectric grease.

If you want to have a snowball's chance in Hades of fixing a wiring problem YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE THE OEM MANUAL!!!! This is not negotiable. You need the wiring diagrams so you know what you're doing. Seeing that time is of the essence, work from the diagrams that LSG posted, but order the OEM manual posthaste unless you plan to get rid of the car in the next few weeks. To find your problem, start from the battery and follow the wire to your bad component. At each connection, test for voltage, resistance and amperage. You probably don't have an ammeter, so use your test light as a proxy. Basically, a brighter light means more amperage. When you test for resistance, be sure there isn't any power in the wire, or it will blow the fuse in your multimeter. At some point, your electrical output will break down. When you see this, you will know that the problem is between your last known good connection and the bad one.

That's wire troubleshooting, in a nutshell. Now here's the wildcard. You have something going on in the wire harness near the clutch. The fact that you could move it and make it work indicates that something is shorting out randomly. Keep that in mind as you troubleshoot, because you very well might be able to get everything to test out perfect. Move the clutch harness and it will stop testing perfect. That kind of thing can make you crazy.

Also consider that it is possible that you have a melted wire in your harness somewhere (possibly near the clutch). With all the wrong amperage fuse business going on, it's possible that a wire got melted in the harness and is grounding out on another wire. That will create all kinds of interesting phenomena while making it very difficult to find and repair. Just be aware of that as you work. The solution is either to replace the harness (=$$$$) or just run a new wire.

Yes, I wrote all that only to have the site flush it for me...twice. Anyway, good luck. I'll keep an eye on things and respond if I'm able.

lostscotiaguy
09-10-2012, 07:08 PM
Maybe this will help a little more as well:

http://imgur.com/a/Hqcyq

1GCustomAccord
09-10-2012, 07:50 PM
Probably the hatch is already in a junkyard by now. :sadwave:

lostforawhile
09-10-2012, 08:00 PM
we made it very clear how to make it run so he could get it home snooze, but he wouldn't listen or whatever, hook the positive side of the coil temporarily to battery plus, jump a wire from the starter solenoid terminal to battery and bam she starts, that simple, then he could have driven it home to figure out the issue

lostscotiaguy
09-15-2012, 09:59 AM
Hmmm....I wonder whatever happened with this?