Your thoughts: Most underrated/overrated Hondas in history

[87accordlxi]

I'd love to see everyone's thoughts on this. They might find their way into a blog post :naughty:

[2oodoor]

Over rated- Passport
Under rated - Civic 4x4 wagon

[Legend_master]

overrated - I'd say s2000
Underrated - first gen 2.0 v6 turbo Legend, or as 2oodoor said the 4x4 civic.


SOHC 2.0L (1,996 cc)
145PS (107kW; 143hp) @ 6,500 rpm
17.0kg·m (167N·m; 123lb·ft) @ 5,500 rpm
Japan only:
1986–1988 Honda Legend
Experimental HP-X (Honda Pininfarina Xperimental)
The variable length intake manifold used six individual small-bore intake runners below 3,500 rpm for each cylinder and added an additional six individual larger bore intake runners at higher RPMs.
The C20AT was a turbocharged version, called the "Wing Turbo", producing 190bhp (141.7kW; 192.6PS).
Japan only:
1989 Honda Legend
Honda replaced the variable length intake manifold with a variable geometry turbocharger to the C20A engine used in the Japanese Domestic Market Legend. The turbo with intercooler-equipped engine was the C20AT engine and are extremely rare. Honda pioneered variable-geometry turbo chargers. The "Wing Turbo", as Honda called them, were controlled by an 8-bit processor ECU and they were constantly adjusting. Basically, at low speeds the wings surrounding the turbine wheel inside the compressor housing on the intake side would be nearly closed to speed and direct exhaust pressure precisely on the turbine wheel. At 2000 rpm, the wings would fluctuate and it would act like a much larger turbo to increase fuel economy as needed. This car was quick and powerful, but the price premium over the slightly longer and wider Legend with the 2.7L naturally aspirated V6 was too much for most, so the car disappeared. This was one of the only production Hondas ever turbocharged from the factory, along with the K23A1 straight-4 engine used in the Acura RDX and the ER straight-4 engine used in the first generation Honda City.

[2ndGenGuy]

I agree, S2000, totally not worth it.

[lostscotiaguy]

Over-Rated: I'd agree with the S2000. Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome platform and it handles like a dream, but it just doesn't have the low end grunt it needs. A simple supercharger really wakes it up, and even under low boost you can easily get a nice reliable (I.E. Long lasting and low maintenance) 300-350 Horses. With that kind of power this car could go after much bigger (and much pricier) prey. If Honda had sold a supercharged or turbocharged version of this I think it would have sold like hot-cakes, despite a slightly higher price. Sure it might have disrupted NSX sales a little bit but they could have done the same with the NSX. Sometimes I think Honda almost plays it too safe. I'm sure they could have easily built a nice 450-550 Hp beast of a motor for the NSX but they'd rather have a completely solid and reliable 300 Hp motor than a more high maintenance tempermental one.

Under-rated: The 2nd gen Lude 2.0SI, but I'm speaking with pure unadulterated bias because I own one (With over 240,000 miles on it). So, feel free to completely ignore the following tirade: The A20 is a good torquey little engine. While it is certainly a little lacking in horsepower, it produced excellent (Or at least sufficient) numbers for the time it was released. Also it has most of it's power in the low to mid range (Where I want it) and it always feels eager to accelerate, never bogged down. Compared to any of it's contemporaries I've driven over the years it was light years ahead. Try driving ANY Domestic 4 Cylinder car from the 80's...I dare you. As for the chassis: The car itself is fairly light to start out with although it's weighted down a little bit by all the non-optional extras (A dual edged sword) Cruise control, power sunroof, power mirrors, AC, AM/FM cassette stereo with an EQ, 4 speakers, Flip up headlights (all the rage in the 80's) Power windows, Speed sensitive power steering,etc. Sure they weigh the car down but that was a long list of STANDARD features for the time. Now about the platform: admittedly the second gen didn't have the whizz-bang kickass 4WS of the 3rd gen but I still think it still holds it's own against many (If not most) modern cars. To this day I'm shocked at how ridiculously fast I can go "through the twisty's" despite having a tired old suspension (Shocks and springs have never been replaced that I'm aware of) and bald-ass bargain basement "china's best" tires on it. I tend to piss off people in much faster and newer cars whenever I engage in any "vehicular hijinks" with them :devil: . I always enjoy surprising people who underestimate it. Now for the time, sure the CRX was lighter, more powerful and may even out handle the Lude, but this is about cars that are underrated right? The CRX has always gotten a TON of attention and yet the 2nd gen Lude has been completely forgotten and ignored. Oh, and aesthetically speaking, while it may not be quite as sleek as it's younger brother the 3G, it's still got a low drag coefficient, it hunkers down nicely at highway speeds and you have to admit it's still pretty damn cool looking little car! :)

[2drSE-i]

Over-Rated: CRX (Going to catch heat for this one)

Under-Rated: 4ws Prelude.

[Dr_Snooz]

Under-Rated: 4ws Prelude.

x2. But not the 4g Prelude 4WS. The 3g mechanical linkage 4WS. That car was sick.

[Legend_master]

I think we all appreciate Honda innovation to much lol.

[2drSE-i]

x2. But not the 4g Prelude 4WS. The 3g mechanical linkage 4WS. That car was sick.


They made a 4g 4ws?

I guess so: http://static.cargurus.com/images/site/2009/03/18/21/49/1994_honda_prelude_2_dr_si_4ws_coupe-pic-53045.jpeg

[carotman]

They made a 5G 4WS too.

[ecogabriel]

x2. But not the 4g Prelude 4WS. The 3g mechanical linkage 4WS. That car was sick.

x3.

From Wikipedia,

In 1987, Road & Track published a test summary that shows the 1988 Honda Prelude 2.0Si 4WS outperforming every car of that year on the Slalom, including all Lamborghinis, Ferraris, and Porsches. It went through the slalom at 65.5 mph (105.4 km/h), an amazing result for the time. For reference, the 1988 Corvette took the same course at 64.9 mph (104.4 km/h).

A little four-banger from a newcomer to the automotive industry outmaneuvered every supercar of the time, and that on the puny 14" tires of the time. What that car could have done with a setup comparable with that of the supercars? There are still good ones around, and I might contemplate going after one if $$$ allows.

Many did not like the complications with the 4WS, but I think the later 3G Preludes have some changes that simplified the system. Also, the B21 of later models has been blamed to eat piston rings due to the composite cylinder walls. Certainly, that was a time that Honda was at the top of its innovation game; completely dominating F-1 first with the turbo engines and then with the 10-cylinder normal aspirated ones...

Visibility for the driver was outstanding as well (don't remember but well over 300 degrees); I hate modern cars and their slot-sized windows with no f... visibility

[charliekuney]

overrated - EM1 SI
underrated - third generation Prelude 4WS

[Mellexx]

Agreed with overrated - EM1 Si
underrated- EP3 Si

[greasemonky89]

overrated- s2000 for sure then again its a roadster
underrated- 3rd gen prelude or preludes overall

the lude is very underrated because of its weight which its only flaw in my opinion. my favorite being the 3rd gen because im just a fan of that body style and that era of honda.

[greasemonky89]

Over-Rated: CRX (Going to catch heat for this one)



seeing how im a crx owner i would like to hear your reasons before i flame lol.

[carotman]

Over-Rated: I'd agree with the S2000. Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome platform and it handles like a dream, but it just doesn't have the low end grunt it needs.

The S2000 was built to be a high rev machine from day one. If you expect it to be something else, this is where you get disappointed.

[Dr_Snooz]

completely dominating F-1 first with the turbo engines and then with the 10-cylinder normal aspirated ones...

I'm indulging in counterfactuals here, but GOD can you imagine if they had dropped that V10 into the old NSX. Honda would own the automotive world today. That was actually in the works, but they chickened out and let the NSX get old and stale instead. After that, Honda became the flabby, middle-aged mark it is now. It's the car for accountants and soccer moms, when it used to be the tuner's wet dream. :(

[carotman]

I'm indulging in counterfactuals here, but GOD can you imagine if they had dropped that V10 into the old NSX. Honda would own the automotive world today. That was actually in the works, but they chickened out and let the NSX get old and stale instead. After that, Honda became the flabby, middle-aged mark it is now. It's the car for accountants and soccer moms, when it used to be the tuner's wet dream. :(

Honda itself now might me overrated

[Legend_master]

I'm indulging in counterfactuals here, but GOD can you imagine if they had dropped that V10 into the old NSX. Honda would own the automotive world today. That was actually in the works, but they chickened out and let the NSX get old and stale instead. After that, Honda became the flabby, middle-aged mark it is now. It's the car for accountants and soccer moms, when it used to be the tuner's wet dream. :(

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=319284

This was gonna be my runner up for underrated, but it never saw production. Think about if this was rolling around the streets.

[87accordlxi]

Personally, for underrated I toss around the 2G Legend Coupe 6-spd. But I feel that car does get a lot of recognition - there just aren't that many of them.

[ecogabriel]

I'm indulging in counterfactuals here, but GOD can you imagine if they had dropped that V10 into the old NSX. Honda would own the automotive world today. That was actually in the works, but they chickened out and let the NSX get old and stale instead. After that, Honda became the flabby, middle-aged mark it is now. It's the car for accountants and soccer moms, when it used to be the tuner's wet dream. :(

Conversely, Honda had volumes of expertise in turbo technology that went unused after turbos were banned from F1, but might have been used in some limited production cars

As for V10s, I do recall watching a video of the - supposed - NSX replacement sometime around 2010 while lapping the Ring. Rumors at the time were that it had a V10 under the hood and if I remember right it did not sound like a V-8... anyway, it got axed

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008/06/2010_acura_nsx_hits_the_nurbur.html


Honda itself now might me overrated

x2

[2oodoor]

Under rated 1st gen CRV
Over rated Current CRV
I say this because the current CRV is indeed a very nice vehicle BUT has turned into a downsized crossover and is not either an SUV or an econobox.
The 1st gen CRV, with the spare tire mounted on the boot end, was aimed at being an off road Civic IMO. It should have followed the path of true mini SUV markets and 4x4 options.
I guess the development of American V8 full size veh that get 18-22 mpg pushed other makes away from the mini 4x market? Hell even the Ford Explorer is now just a crossover, not even a capable format for real 4x market.
One would think the econobox 4x would be a hot sell these days with all the survivalist hobbyists!

[cygnus x-1]

I say this because the current CRV is indeed a very nice vehicle BUT has turned into a downsized crossover and is not either an SUV or an econobox.

Crossovers are hot for some reason (not sure why). We should just call them station wagons and be done with it.



The 1st gen CRV, with the spare tire mounted on the boot end, was aimed at being an off road Civic IMO. It should have followed the path of true mini SUV markets and 4x4 options.
I guess the development of American V8 full size veh that get 18-22 mpg pushed other makes away from the mini 4x market? Hell even the Ford Explorer is now just a crossover, not even a capable format for real 4x market.
One would think the econobox 4x would be a hot sell these days with all the survivalist hobbyists!

Mini truck and 4x4 options would be very cool, but us Americans are apparently just too fat to fit in them anymore. And Jeep pretty much owns this market already. Although truth be told even Jeeps are fat now.


Most underrated Honda, 2/3g Preludes. Not sure about most overrated.


C|

[gp02a0083]

Crossovers are hot for some reason (not sure why). We should just call them station wagons and be done with it.

C|

haha , i'm thinking the same thing, jsut a new age station wagon. I think it is because SUV's now have a bad rep for fuel economy, where as people don't like the soccer mom/dad image with van's. crossovers would appeal to those in between. Still i don't like them, just bring back the el camino already lol

[2drSE-i]

seeing how im a crx owner i would like to hear your reasons before i flame lol.

Other than the aesthetics (I think they are butt ugly, but that's just me) they've become magnets for ricers. Not the cars fault, I just hate them.

Then again, we are the only ones that appreciate 3g accords.

[SQ is the SQUAD]

overrated : ridgeline (its not a real truck)

Underrated: not sure, they are all pretty popular in their own way.

[Dr_Snooz]

Lexus is pretty overrated in my book.

[2oodoor]

Lexus is pretty overrated in my book.

No way man, several models are the tits
And but those arn't Honda

[cygnus x-1]

overrated : ridgeline (its not a real truck)

I almost said the same thing. But then I didn't. In the traditional sense, no it's not a truck. It doesn't have a solid rear axle. It doesn't have a huge engine with stump pulling torque. It doesn't have the typical stiff truck style ride. But it will do all of the things that most people do with their trucks, just as well as a 'real' truck. And beyond that, when it came out I remember hearing far more criticism of the RL than praise, so from that perspective it's maybe more underrated than overrated.




No way man, several models are the tits
And but those arn't Honda


Like the LFA.:cool:


C|

[Dr_Snooz]

And but those arn't Honda

I know you won't believe me when I say that I looked for that and didn't find it. It was in the thread title though. Doh!

Lucky you, I'll leave my Lexus bashing to another day.

[stat1K]

ridgeline isn't really overrated as it's not really rated. underrated i feel is the crv and overrated is definitely the civic.

[Hauntd ca3]

over rated- integras full stop.
under rated- 3 and 5 g accords

[MessyHonda]

over rated: honda element
under rated: 3rd gen lude and 2nd gen legend coupe

[stat1K]

over rated: honda element
under rated: 3rd gen lude and 2nd gen legend coupe

what's overrated about the element messy?

[MessyHonda]

what's overrated about the element messy?

the car just has too many problems.(recalls) it has a 4 banger and it still gets 18/23mpg. its not the most practical(can only hold 675 pounds of cargo in the back) a 3gee hatch could do that. just google and you will see all the flaws it has. my friend is going to get the toyota FJ and sell his element

[stat1K]

well i don't need to google it as i have one. and it's been great. the only real recall for my year 04, was the windshield and that wasn't a recall but a class action suit.

Also i guarantee you that the rating for cargo for the accord was way less than what it CAN hold. Same goes for the element. It's not meant to be a truck or something similar to a jeep or FJ. It's meant to be what it is, a light duty occasional awd vehicle with low end torque that the l/r/any other civic motor can produce.

i don't find it overrated is my point, it's not really considered an amazing vehicle which would be how something is "overrated." you know? like how does the accord keep winning awards? that shit is overrated.

[2oodoor]

Yup the term "overrated" is misinterpreted easily here.
The Element had potential for a wide market but it lost it's way I believe because of the grey crash dummy look it shared with 1st gen Gm Avalanche. By the time Honda finally painted the fenders they lost the niche and desire for the market IMO ... And consumer interst due to the sticker price. Ford Transit Connect blew everybody away with the mini cargo, Scion and Gm HHR , among others...took the attention away because the ugly fender reputation never went away IMO.
I like the Element with painted fenders.

[dieselgus]

Overrated: The Ridgeline. It is a nice vehicle and all, but if you need to do a lot of actual truck type activities, this isn't the vehicle for you

Underrated: Going to have to go with the 3G sedan. I just finished a quick 5000km trip home for the holidays through the mountains and a few days of brutal -26ish temps. Damn thing started fine without being plugged in, rides great, handles better than a lot of the newer shit on the road, and is great to drive. There are still a lot of them on the road to this day with hundreds of thousands of km on them and they tick along just fine. One solid little car.

[stat1K]

Yup the term "overrated" is misinterpreted easily here.
The Element had potential for a wide market but it lost it's way I believe because of the grey crash dummy look it shared with 1st gen Gm Avalanche. By the time Honda finally painted the fenders they lost the niche and desire for the market IMO ... And consumer interst due to the sticker price. Ford Transit Connect blew everybody away with the mini cargo, Scion and Gm HHR , among others...took the attention away because the ugly fender reputation never went away IMO.
I like the Element with painted fenders.

i personally don't mind my unpainted fenders. i think the element really didn't catch on too much with the honda crowd because it was a GM design. i personally think mine is great, i did have a flat tire in the sand today. that was no fun.