My '87 LXI failed me at 75k

[nanooman]

I have what I call a time capsule. She's my age, an '87 model LXI, with only about 75k miles. Last week, the timing belt tensioner broke while I was accelerating, causing damage to the valves, obviously. I've been back and forth about whether or not to go through with some kind of repair. It just seems like the cost of the repair will exceed the value of the car. What makes it worse is that I just had the brakes, belts, and axles maintained. Thoughts? I'm posting it in the trader forum to get a feel for what it's worth.

[carotman]

Are you going to be able to buy another car with belt, brakes and axles serviced for the price of the repair?

[2oodoor]

how do you know the valves are bent? these are,. contrary to the belief of others, non interference engines. Any why did you take off the tint, that was a big selling point in my opinion>

[g.frost]

I relaxed a bit about the life of my timing belt when I learned these are non-interference engines. Replace timing belt, tensioner (maybe water pump while your in there) and on you go.

[nanooman]

They're non-interference?! I'm completely stunned right now. Supposedly a compression test was done, rotating the pistons/valves to compressed position by hand, and it failed. I'm starting to doubt that now that you kind gentlemen have educated me.

The tint was very scratched up on the driver's door and peeling off of the rear window. I simply could not see very well.

[AccordEpicenter]

They're non-interference?! I'm completely stunned right now. Supposedly a compression test was done, rotating the pistons/valves to compressed position by hand, and it failed. I'm starting to doubt that now that you kind gentlemen have educated me.

The tint was very scratched up on the driver's door and peeling off of the rear window. I simply could not see very well.

Not sure if it was done or not, but the book says they are interference engines yet usually they dont break valves when the belt goes but anything can/does happen. It might be worth it to have it fixed if the rest of the car is good

[nanooman]

Can anyone chime in with definite evidence that these are or are not interference engines? I've read all over now that the a20a is NONinterference. Correct engine name?

Either way, I believe it will be best to repair the car at this point. I'll know more as time goes on as far as damage is concerned.

[2drSE-i]

Can anyone chime in with definite evidence that these are or are not interference engines? I've read all over now that the a20a is NONinterference. Correct engine name?

Either way, I believe it will be best to repair the car at this point. I'll know more as time goes on as far as damage is concerned.

They are listed as interference, but many, MANY people have broken timing belts and had no problems. We have quite a bit of piston/valve clearance, so you are probably OK. If nothing else, slap a timing belt and tensioner on it and see what it does. They're only about 40 bucks, and it will save you from buying another car.

[Dr_Snooz]

^^^ This.

[nanooman]

Ok, so if I slap a timing belt on and all is good, what's a general value of the car, in your opinion.

[Vanilla Sky]

Depending on how clean it is, I would expect anywhere between $1,500 and $2,000 for it in my area. Members get them cheaper most of the time, but that's about what they are worth on the open market.

[MessyHonda]

my uncles 89 lx snapped a belt while he was driving me to school. they just slapped a new belt on and it worked till around 180k when he junked it.

[SharkyX]

I popped my timing belt about 6 months ago and it was fine after having a new one on it. As someone else stated though get the water pump done at the same time. I did not and had to go back in and put that on a month later

[derolph]

These are not non-interference engines. Honda did not re-design their engines to be non-interference until years later (not sure what year off hand but at least sometime after 4th gen Accords). But, as previous posts have indicated, valves do not always get damaged when a timing belt brakes. It's just a matter of probabilities; you may be lucky, you may not. It's going to depend on exactly where the pistons were in their rotational cycle at the time the belt breaks, the rpm at the time the belt broke, and other factors; trying to start an engine with a broken belt will, of course, increase the liklihood of damaging the engine.

[Vanilla Sky]

For what it's worth, Gates says that the A20 is an interference engine.

Gates Part Locator & Interchange (http://www.gates.com/part_locator/index.cfm?location_id=3598)

[Oldblueaccord]

Guys its 2013.

Lets not fall for forsale /fail threads. This is just a thread to pump up someones for sale thread.

Wp

[POS carb]

I'll buy your car
Anyway I snapped my belt at low speed and didn't bend anything. I knew it was coming though, I heard the belt flapping so I turned around to go back home and it snapped. It may be an interference engine but I think if the engine speed was low when it popped you should be ok, especially if it's an automatic

[cygnus x-1]

I haven't looked at this stuff in awhile so I decided to go back and look at the numbers. Here is what I found:

On an A20 head, not milled as far as I know, with stock valves. Maximum stock cam lift is about 0.38" for all valves. At max lift, max valve protrusion below the head surface is about 0.19" for all valves. Head gasket thickness is about 1.2mm, or 0.047". Intake valve relief depth on a later A20A3 piston (13102-PJ0-308) is 0.086", and the exhaust valve relief depth is 0.146".

Numbers:
Intake: 0.19 - 0.047 - 0.086 = 0.057" <== This number is positive indicating an interference
Exhaust: 0.19 - 0.047 - 0.146 = -0.003" <== This number is negative indicating a clearance


Now, the assumption here is that at piston TDC the top surface of the piston is exactly flush with the block deck. As I recall from when I rebuilt my engine it is. Or at least it's within 0.01" or so. This also assumes my piston measurements are correct. Several years ago I measured a new A20A3 piston (the higher compression version) and made a CAD model of it. The model isn't exact because the shape of the piston top is somewhat complex and I was measuring by hand with a caliper. I think for this discussion the measurement are probably close enough.


Conclusion:
Technically this would be considered an interference engine. However, the interference is pretty small and to actually have a collision the cam and crank would have to line up just right. The most likely scenario would be if the timing belt breaks and the cam stops with one of the valves very close to maximum lift, AND the crank is still spinning. The window for this to happen is pretty small, which is why most people don't have a problem. BUT, it is still theoretically possible to have a collision.


C|

[POS carb]

^^also assumes the head has never been shaved, block has never been decked
good info!

edit:
never mind, you mentioned that
:)

[nanooman]

Old blue, I somehow missed your comment when you posted it. No matter what year it is, I came here for help from a community of fellow 3g owners.

That said, after 2.5 months I have in fact decided to list the car as my in laws decided today to pass down their Toyota Avalon. You can't beat free.