Transmission Grenaded..

[vteckiller]

So here i am approaching a stop sign, and i hear a decently loud clunk sound followed by parts bouncing off the ground.. i get out looked under the car and see tranny fluid just pouring out.. So i get it towed home. i pop the hood and look at it, and the thing literally grenaded, i can see the gears and such inside it.. without proceeding to take it apart. I ask 3geez, is it more worth replacing engine/tranny or just do the tranny?

[2oodoor]

Condition of engine? Do you down shift to first when stopping and still rolling?

[AccordB20A]

pics. ive never seen a gearbox fail only the diff that explodes and takes out the casing.

[Dr_Snooz]

...Usually after someone has been driving like the Dukes of Hazzard.

[vteckiller]

Ill try to get some pics up tomorrow, i have the next 3 days off and it is suppose to be " dry " outside so ill be working on it. take pics as i go. and usually i downshift to 2nd, slowly let out clutch and as i roll at about 15ish i hit first but i still hold in clutch i dont let it out like i do in 2nd.

[POS carb]

just get the transmission unless you want to rebuild the engine then you can just swap it all in at the same time. Not sure how you can blow up a transmission on this car at low speeds!! :lol:

[g.frost]

Just curious, with such an unusual and catastrophic failure; how many miles on it, how many times the trans oil was changed, and what was the oil used? With proper care and use, these manual transmissions should last 400K miles without ever being opened up. ( that includes 5th gear...) Sadly, most are run low on oil (so goes 5th gear), not changed, and not fed proper lube.

[vteckiller]

changed fluid when i got the car at like 230k the car did have a slow leak but i always topped her off every now and then to make sure it wasnt burning out or low.. 5th gear was fine.. 2nd gear syncro kinda grinded if you werent fimiliar with the car.. atm when it decided to explode, had 265k. the guy who owned it before me was mean to the car.. used to pretty much burn out in gravel and hit high spots in the road to kinda " catch air"... yeah i know guy wasnt smart with the accord.. i got everything off. just need to seperate the trans from the motor now.. its giving me some fight though.. one bolt stripped lol.. and it isnt in a good area to have had one stripped out at..

[Dr_Snooz]

That's exactly how the last guy exploded his trans. I guess jumping these cars leads to trans shrapnel.

[vteckiller]

So i cant for the life of me get the transmission off the engine.. i swear i got all the bolts out.. i cant even get it to budge.. anyone ever dropped there transmission before? or anyone have a diagram that will be helpful. thanks.

[MessyHonda]

make sure you took off the starter

[vteckiller]

i pulled the starter off as well as the tranny mounts, and the bolts.. i dont have them infront of me but i think theres like a total of i think 9bolts bolting the tranny to the engine.. Is it gonna be kinda hard to seperate the two once everything is kinda unbolted or will it pretty much wanna fall out?

[vteckiller]

I just need a little assistance in how to actually one man remove this transmission.. it is garbage but i dont wanna mess anything up on the engine side ya know.. ive never actually done a transmission swap before its not really hard for me to do.. cause hell i already pulled both sides all the way off like UCA/LCA/Sway bar/etc etc pulled the CVaxles etc etc.. im replacing all the entire front end, and perhaps getting a set of coil sleeves with a good set of springs/struts or going full body coilovers. just help me with the transmission 3geez... please.. thanks..

[zenapup]

Did you remove the front trans mount? Also, you have to remove the torque rod brackets and the rear engine mount nut since it is also the trans mount

[vteckiller]

removed the MT mount that mounts to the skidplate/towplate thing theres the two bolts there. i unbolted the torque mount up top or whatever its called and the one that mounts like next to the oil filter theres like 2-3 bolts i believe something like that right there and all the bolts that go around the entire tranny obviously.. when i lift on the trans it lifts the entire engine too.. is it like something i gotta spread with a pry bar?

[vteckiller]

plus i cant really post pics and it is hard to get good light for a pic to show with no flash camara.. does anyone got diagrams or pictures perhaps?

[Dr_Snooz]

You have to slide the transmission out of the clutch plates. I usually use a combination of jiggling and a pry bar to separate them. They don't slide easily apart and they are even harder to slide back together. Try to support the trans as you jiggle, because you can bend the input shaft if you don't. If you can't convince a buddy to help you with the install, then I suggest using a trans jack.

You want the type that tilts and swivels, like this.

4692

Not the motorcycle jack that most places call a trans jack.

4693

You need to strap the trans down to the jack and tilt it to exactly the right angle. If you don't, it will bind on the input shaft and you won't get it back together without damaging something.

Consider taking this opportunity to inspect the clutch and flywheel (replace if necessary) and replace the engine rear main seal. You'll kick yourself if it starts leaking a few weeks after doing all this work. Use the old seal to install the new one and you won't be looking for expensive installers or lengths of sewer drain pipe.

[vteckiller]

front transmission mount.. im not sure but isnt the one in the front bolted to the engine? then theres one to the driver side also to the engine? and then one to the passanger side but nothing attached?

[vteckiller]

So i finally got the transmission off the engine, was missing one bolt.. lol. it looks all right in there a little rustyish.. looks like the thin metal sheild got hit? or damaged at some point? its the one that goes like on the engine.. so in order i guess it goes Engine/sheild/clutch/transmission.. that thin sheild like thing looks damaged does that matter? and thanks for the help.

[firefighterwhite89]

I had an A2Q5 transfer eclipse on me one. A bearing failed and boom. Locked out at 45mph. I found a Prelude Si A2K5 trans and I love it now.

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[pickupman6]

That's exactly how the last guy exploded his trans. I guess jumping these cars leads to trans shrapnel.

You aint talkin bout me are ya? I quit doing that a year before it blew to pieces. :)

[vteckiller]

With the prelude you need the flywheel and something else dont you? to get it to work? my tranny itself says YSK or YSX on it i think, uhm its toast though.. anyone recomend a site for transmissions? or just your local pick and pull? cause i found 2 in town already pulled for 250$ with my core.

[Dr_Snooz]

I don't know how damaged the shield is, but if you can, just hammer it back into shape. That doesn't always get reinstalled and it doesn't seem to be a problem. If it's a little rumpled, it shouldn't matter.

[vteckiller]

its more like the metal got frail over time and parts of it kinda just shattered off.. didnt really bend it. just shattered pieces off. found transmission for 250$ with my old/grenaded trans. should be able to buy it tomorrow, have it pretty much all installed in like 6hrs or less. im doing all new bushings on the UCA LCA etc etc while everythings off.. also plotting doing a lowering of roughly 1.5-2.0.

[firefighterwhite89]

When I swapped from my 86' Accord LXi A2Q5 transmission to the 87' Prelude Si A2K5 transmission, everything was convertable. Here's what I used.
-A20A3 Accord LXi stock flywheel.
-A20A4 Prelude Transmission.
-Stock 86' LXi Clutch Cable.
-Stock 86' speedometer cable.
-Stock 86' shift linkage.
-Stock 86' LXi transmission bolts.
-Stock 86' LXi CV axles.

All matches up. Same housing, but different gears.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/28/ynebesyg.jpg


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[firefighterwhite89]

And it cost me $325 as well...I literally bought it on its way to the crusher. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/28/ve4y5yqu.jpg

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[vteckiller]

Well everything is already on my engine (a20a3) so if i just bought an prelude SI tranny or the one stated it will just slide right in and bolt up. connect hoses for the speedo, hook up the rpm sensor connect the cable to the transmission etc etc?

[firefighterwhite89]

Yes sir.

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[vteckiller]

welp. the yard i went to said. " yeah we have it on the shelf " i get there.. i watch these 3 clowns rumble around the yard to try to find it.. like really? you said on the shelf. not in the yard. anywho they resume to bring me 2 92honda civic trans, a 91accord trans. i said wtf are you guys doing.. then they blame this guys wife for miss numbering the trans.. its like really it says on the tag.. 92 civic and 91 accord. Then.. they say it will take us 15-25min to unbolt that one.. he points at an a20a3 carb. i was so mad at that point i just had em pull the thing.. 1 hr later they finally pulled it from the engine and on i went..

PS: there was oil in the part that hooks to the engine.. i asked whats that he said you're suppose to have oil in there.. i laughed and agreed.. what a day.

[firefighterwhite89]

Lol. Sounds like either the Crankshaft Seal or the Dizzy O-Ring needed replaced. A long time ago, my crank seal started to leak, badly. Got all over my clutch and I thought just my clutch was bad. A complete top to bottom rebuild of all gaskets, seals, etc. Was in order.

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[vteckiller]

k well i know my seals are good on the engine side cause well.. my clutch would be oily and so would had my old trans. this trans i got is got some thick ass oil in it. i dont even think its oil probably 23yr old trans.. cause its thick shit and stuck like glue almost, and there was carbonfibres like stuff as well.. so i think the engine it came off of was messed up badly.. soo im cleaning the hell out of it before i bolt her back up.. and i cant remember but there isnt a seal that goes between the engine and trans is there? i cant remember.

[A18A]

just a tip, when installing it, don't use the bolts to pull the engine and gearbox together. make sure the gearbox is mated evenly to the engines surface the whole way round before tightening bolts :) oh and make sure you don't have missing/doubled up dowel pins. it might make you swear lol

[vteckiller]

Right.. cause youll end up bending things, or it wont be aligned right.. etc etc. the dowel pin things are those hollow tube looking bolt things right? there should a couple of them.. cant remember exactly how many but i know for sure i seen 2 off the top of my head.. i have tomorrow off and plan on doing it then.

[Dr_Snooz]

this trans i got is got some thick ass oil in it. i dont even think its oil probably 23yr old trans.. cause its thick shit and stuck like glue almost, and there was carbonfibres like stuff as well..

That's a bad sign. Be ready to pull it right back out again 'cause it probably isn't going to work.

[firefighterwhite89]

Yes, just two dowel pins. Align them and jiggle it back in. Tighten bolts and install cables, etc etc.

I've removed mine twice by myself. It's cake after the first time you do it. It does require some muscle and patience the first time. I used a simple Jack to help lower the trans through the frame.

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[firefighterwhite89]

And there isn't a gasket that I know of for these trans, that I know of.

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[vteckiller]

well damn.. im thinking the oil and crud is from the engine it came from.. not 100% sure but i think it came from the engine it was in.. but at same time i dont wanna install this thing, to uninstall. to reinstall. lol.

[vteckiller]

So today i started working on my trans swap at 1pm, got everything back together, started filling the trans with 10w30, and i look for leaks.. bam just as i suspected.. oil pouring from the passanger side axle right where it snaps-in to the trans.. i figure well if i get enough in there and just go for a few yards down the road to check see if it works. going into gears.. etc.. im so bummed.. i gotta do some investigating on the issue. also feels like i have no breaks.. i spray wd40 on the rotors to stop rust. and i wiped most of it off, didnt have any carb/brake cleaner so i just didnt use anything.. could that be the issue? also anyone know of sides or autoshops that sell the seals that go where the axles are?

[firefighterwhite89]

Get it at O'Reilly Auto. They have them. I had to replace mine last time I pulled my axle. Screwed it up with a screwdriver, prying the axle off and bent the seal. I think I paid $9 for it. Be careful pushing it in. It's a ultra tight fit, so I used a 3" PVC pipe and a deadblow hammer to gently bump it in. Be careful and not bend the seal. It's very malleable.

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[firefighterwhite89]

As for the old seal, rip that thing out when you replace it. No sharp prying objects though. You scratch that housing and you'll have a permaleak.

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[vteckiller]

god i hope this works.. im on a tight budget atm.. lost one of my side jobs. ill use like a 20mm or bigger say socket and a deadblow..
took me 6 hrs to install the damn thing and hook everything back up.. including both sides(LCA,UCA,STRUTS,ROTORS,ETC) dunno if thats decent work for time wise.. i just got hand powered tools(wrenches,ratchets,etc) took me like 6 hours to pull it all out as well.. all of this work has been done alone.. i aint the best.. i just know if it has bolts/screws it can usually be taken off/on this is also my very first transmission swap. kinda stoked either way around.

[firefighterwhite89]

That will work! Best to try and stay closest to the outer edge of the gasket as possible. 6 hours is pretty typical for a trans swap, especially your first time. All you need to pull is tire, rotor, caliper and axle. You got this!

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[vteckiller]

Got her off and in... i took the old seal out by drilled two small holes in the old mount the screwed a screw into it and used the screw as a pull point and it pulled out with ease. got the new one back in.. and Viola. no leak. atm at least. but now it feels like i literally have no brakes.. i sprayed some wd40 on the rotors cause they like to rust up fast. and used carb/choke cleaner on them to clean it off.. but it still feels like i got no brakes. i havent tried to bleed them yet cause im pretty wore out between work and a trans swap in a day lol. and parts leaking so you gotta uninstall to reinstall to uninstall and reinstall the new part gets to ya quick lol. i didnt do nothing with the brake system but hang it so it didnt dangle. any ideas why my brakes are like shot now? i did notice i believe where the aluminum gauge thing goes into the engine.. theres two hoses that go to it and the cable for the speedo to read what speed you are going i believe? are those necessary for the brakes? cause i see no fluid drained nothing.. besides the fact when the tranny blew i lost brakes too.

[Oldblueaccord]

Yeah wd40 does not go on brake rotors.

Could try brake clean to get it off but i would guess your pads are ruined.

Wp

[vteckiller]

hmm. okay.. ill try bleeding them and cleaning the hell out of the pads i got. if that dont help. or i notice i got pressure but no stoping happening equal to pressure ill replace pads.. but atm its like the brakes go to the floor.. like i got a air pocket or something.. i never disconnected the lines or nothing.. maybe i hit one when installing the trans? but i dont think theyre close enough to hit.. any suggestions?

[firefighterwhite89]

Yes sir, your pads are ruined for sure. And now that you've heated the pads up, they're really too contaminated to salvage. Good thing is your pads are like $35/set(both passenger and drivers side). Better $35 than $135, IMO, even though it may seem like you fix one thing and another happens. Always remember, anything petroleum based for sure will contaminate your pads upon touching them along with a list of other chemicals. Brake parts cleaner is rarely helpful once pads are contaminated but it itself will not contaminate them.

The hoses on the back of the transmission that are angled at 45° angles(as I recall) are for oiling the speedometers sensor/gear in the transmission. They're pretty important as well. So far, sounds like you're doing excellent. Almost there. How's the transmission shifting/driving?

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[firefighterwhite89]

Do you think a caliper is sticking? It really wouldn't hurt to bleed your brakes again...

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[vteckiller]

with it not being aligned atm cause i undid the tie rods cause i didnt wanna ruin mine by smacking them out. So the steering wheels is aligned the tires look aligned. but with the no brakes i aint pushing it driving fast tell i get aligned and brakes. but it shifts into first good. secound as well.. i went like one block it shifted fine. the reverse works.. just really gotta test it once i get the other things figured out. but most likely my problem in my brakes going to floor is the wd40 on the pads eh? theyre pinching but it cant pinch when its slicing/lubed.

[vteckiller]

I also bought some new pads ima throw on tomorrow "brakebest" 13$ for the passanger and driver side. cant complain..

[firefighterwhite89]

Sweet deal man. I'm glad you end up finding those for that cheap. By chance where did you get those? I always shop in O'Reilly's auto parts because they can give me a lifetime warranty guarantee on practically anything and everything I buy. but for that price, where'd you get them?
I'm quite stoked for you to get this thing fixed. and the only way to learn how to do it is to do it. my first set of brake pads I messed up with my oily hands touching them. Got to wondering why they squeak like crazy when I would stop with the rotor and pads being new and all. Accidentally double sealed my oil filter my first oil change too. Crank the car and oil everywhere. You're definitely on the right path though. Keep us updated though.

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[Dr_Snooz]

I wouldn't worry too much about the pads. I have gotten gunk on my pads and have driven with oiled rotors before (from having them turned). I've gotten disc brake grease fingerprints on them. It all wipes off well enough. Once the pads heat up, it burns off completely.

If the pedal goes to the floor, then you have a problem. Since it happened at the same time the trans blew, then I would be looking for damage to the hard lines that go under the car. When the trans blew, it could easily have shot shrapnel into them. I suspect changing those is going to be fun.

I don't worry about how long it takes me to do stuff. I spent several days swapping my trans, last time. Doing a good and thorough job takes time. Anyone can swap brake pads in 20 minutes. Doing a proper brake job, including inspecting calipers, lines and hardware, inspecting the rear brakes, checking the suspension, greasing the pads so they don't squeak, torquing bolts to spec, adjusting the e-brake, bleeding the brakes and road testing to ensure that everything is good, takes considerably longer. Let the shops worry about time. You worry about doing a good job.

[vteckiller]

As for the brake pads i got them at Oreillys. part number D409. for $13-14. They also say they work on 23 acura models. 90-93 integra ls.. and the brakes.. would i kinda have no fluid left if something happened to my lines?(hard) up by the trans? cause if it wasnt really really working i think id have fluid somewhere or the hardlines got crimped just enough..

[vteckiller]

i looked and the hardlines for the brakes dont go really near the trans enough to get hit think about it.. the rears go along the inside of the car. the ones on the outside are too high.. i bleeded my brakes, they feel better i went around the block 3-4 times adjusting the clutch cable etc, i can tell i need an alignment but i kinda knew i was gonna, i straightened the steering wheel. it doesnt pull like it used too though.. it kinda pulled right now it dont.. i can tell its alittle off cause when i go over certain roads or spots i hear it squeel. those soft lines are they pretty flexable before they " break " or become " unusable " ? i dont see it leaking anywhere and it feels different.. i have been driving 2 different makes and cars for the past weeks but it still feels different.

[vteckiller]

So i drove to the park.. thats like 6 miles total. there and back.. seems to be good.. it does most definitly need to be professionally aligned cause i got it good but its 40-60$ vs two-four tires 145$ per tire..

[firefighterwhite89]

Very true. Glad to hear you got another great car working perfect again! I'm assuming no binding, crunching, resistance or leaks?
I had to replace the bushings on the transmission side of my linkage once...it got too loose as the top and bottom bushings wore away. Fixed by drilling 2 pennies through the middle. Perfect fit for future reference if ever needed as the bushings are obsolete.

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[vteckiller]

you had to replace the trans shift linkage where the tube bolts up to the trans and has that spot welded bolt on it.. those two bushings there? mine are fine. (i assume) it does need the clutch adjusted i think.. it does not slip but i aint no professional lol. theres a shop that will do it for free around my town. and i dont hear nothing as far as crunching, grinding, sanding, or a hard metal vs metal abbrasive sound no at all.. however i think my pressure plate might be going out cause when i down shift and do it slow.. its almost like it grabs it but not too hard but also like releases at same time.. so like its weird to explain.. but only when i downshift super slow(letting the clutch out slowly).. but yeah this car works fine. been driving it lately.. so.. i am going to look over all the bolts and stuff a few times as to make sure everything isnt moving out or rattling itself out.. i did em last night all of em where good..

[firefighterwhite89]

Yeah. Those were the ones I had to replace. They don't make them anymore so if you come across any at a hard, knab them for later use!

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[ecogabriel]

If you need a clutch in the near future, you may get a Daikin from the site below (prices are good and they have free shipping)

Clutch City Online (http://clutchcityonline.com/)

Also, the flywheel needs to be either resurfaced OR a new one installed. Don't be cheapo and skip on that since removing and reinstalling a transmission is not a joke (as you have discovered) I believe the new flywheels do not have the timing marks so you may need to find a way to make those marks yourself.

Glad that another 3G is back on the roads. Good work