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View Full Version : OBD1, still having issues getting it running right.



Susanoo
01-17-2013, 11:11 AM
So im sure I need no introduction but its an 89 accord dx, converted FI, converted OBD1 on stock b18 ls basemap.

Go back to http://www.3geez.com/forum/efi-tech/78994-no-start-situation-1400-miles-obd1.html for more history and troubleshooting already done.

I just replaced the timing belt and its perfectly lined up and it DID make an improvement, however the car still has NO power and will not rev up like it should. Give it 25% throttle and it takes 3-4 seconds to do anything and then it takes 3-5 more seconds to rev up to match throttle. It's topping out at 2300 pedal to the floor...it use to top out at 3000 with the pedal to the floor BEFORE the timing belt with timing off a tooth. Another issue is the absence of the cold start. It use to work perfectly, cold start it would shoot to 1600 right off, it doesnt do anything like that now. The idle screw...its backed all the way out and idle will not increase past 900-1000.

For shits and giggles I unplugged individual injectors and found something interesting. If I unplug either cyl 3-4 the engine still runs, a little choppy but it runs. However if I unplug either cyl 1-2 the engine dies immediately. Im at a loss for that one cause I did that months ago and it didnt do this. Obviously this is getting progressively worse. I've started wondering if its the ECU.

TPS is dialed in right, brand new, .5 closed, 4.8 WOT.
ECT is new
Dizzy is a refurb from autozone but has been swapped three times.
Spark plugs brand new and havent even seen road time.

Need anything please feel free to ask.

VIDEO: https://www.facebook.com/v/10151228313886022

elpuma
01-17-2013, 02:35 PM
How are you setting the timing on the dizzy? Are you using a timing light?

Susanoo
01-17-2013, 02:52 PM
I dont have access to one and no place will rent one out. If I could, I would use a timing light.

I did it with a friend of mine by watching RPM's and vacuum.

elpuma
01-17-2013, 03:16 PM
Not even autozone will rent it out? I bought one cheap on ebay. How much do you think they'd charge if i mailed you mine so you can barrow it?

Susanoo
01-17-2013, 03:50 PM
Not even autozone will rent it out? I bought one cheap on ebay. How much do you think they'd charge if i mailed you mine so you can barrow it?

Surprisingly they wont, I called to ask and they said they dont rent them. I think I'd be afraid to mail something like that bro, but I think it would be somewhere around 10-15 dollars. You'd really be willing to do that?

elpuma
01-17-2013, 04:01 PM
Yeah. Its a cheap lil gun i wouldn't worry much about it.

This is the one i got New Professional Xenon Inductive Timing Light Engine Motor Automotive Tune Up | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Professional-Xenon-Inductive-Timing-Light-Engine-Motor-Automotive-Tune-Up-/190781481755?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item2c6b76631b&vxp=mtr)

2ndGenPreludeSi
01-17-2013, 04:16 PM
For shits and giggles I unplugged individual injectors and found something interesting. If I unplug either cyl 3-4 the engine still runs, a little choppy but it runs. However if I unplug either cyl 1-2 the engine dies immediately. Im at a loss for that one cause I did that months ago and it didnt do this. Obviously this is getting progressively worse. I've started wondering if its the ECU.


Headgasket maybe?

Also You can get a cheap timing light at harbor frieght, around $15. It wont last long, but it'll get the job done.

89T
01-17-2013, 05:33 PM
Sounds like cam timing is off. Double check cam timing(tdc crank /"up" on the cam gear centered with the valve cover bolts), then take an old dist cap and drill out the #1 plug wire and confirm tdc on the rotor.

Susanoo
01-17-2013, 05:56 PM
Yeah. Its a cheap lil gun i wouldn't worry much about it.

This is the one i got New Professional Xenon Inductive Timing Light Engine Motor Automotive Tune Up | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Professional-Xenon-Inductive-Timing-Light-Engine-Motor-Automotive-Tune-Up-/190781481755?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item2c6b76631b&vxp=mtr)

As long as its not the kind where you have to pull the boot back and clip on to bare metal. I cant pull my boots back cause they're still so new and sticky.


Headgasket maybe?

Also You can get a cheap timing light at harbor frieght, around $15. It wont last long, but it'll get the job done.

I replaced it when I did the head, of course. I tightened all the bolts down in the little pattern and with a torque wrench to spec. But im not mixing oil and water and I dont have low compression in two adjacent cylinders. Only number 4 is kinda low. 3 and 1 are excellent. 3 is good.

Really? I've never been to one before...I'll get like a cheap pistol case for it to keep it safer from damage and it should last a little while longer.


Sounds like cam timing is off. Double check cam timing(tdc crank /"up" on the cam gear centered with the valve cover bolts), then take an old dist cap and drill out the #1 plug wire and confirm tdc on the rotor.

Naw bro I marked the cam and belt and we checked several times before starting it because I was so paranoid of it being off. Its dead on.

I really think the issues with cold start are pointing to the root of the problem. However I went through two ECU's and still haven't gotten it back, but if the ECU is in limp mode then there must still be something wrong somewhere. The question is what exactly.

Susanoo
01-17-2013, 06:11 PM
I also took the valve cover off to check for any physical damage to the valvetrain and found none. The oil is pretty dirty though for some reason.

89T
01-17-2013, 08:49 PM
If it is in limp mode it will be throwing a code. That is why i went straight to a mechanical problem.

Vanilla Sky
01-18-2013, 04:13 AM
I'm starting to think it's a mechanical problem, too.

2oodoor
01-18-2013, 06:33 AM
Sounds exactly like exhaust restriction but who knows...
Easy check would be pull out O2 sensors to open up exhaust a bit and try the rpm test again.
Tdc on flywheel is a barely visable sideways scribed "T" , also if you had a timing light you can visually check advance by gassing the motor while the lite is aimed on the flywheel.

My opinion otherwise is it does also behave like injector driver circuit intermitant but if several ecu have been tried then it points to harness issue.
Too bad the cam sensor data isn't readable or is it..

carotman
01-18-2013, 07:32 AM
How's your fuel pressure?

gfrg88
01-18-2013, 04:54 PM
Sounds like my engine did before the gasket blew between 2-3. You check compression yet?

Obd1 conversion headaches - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l5uzqoWfLA&feature=share&list=UUfjy9bUHZdQxsN8BAjxL-Kg)

89T
01-23-2013, 07:34 AM
Any updates

Rendon LX-i
01-24-2013, 07:01 AM
watched the vid on facebook. not sure anymore. like everyone else says its prolly internal

Susanoo
01-24-2013, 03:04 PM
Sounds exactly like exhaust restriction but who knows...

My opinion otherwise is it does also behave like injector driver circuit intermitant but if several ecu have been tried then it points to harness issue.
Too bad the cam sensor data isn't readable or is it..

Theres no exhaust restriction, I've mentioned before theres no cat on it anymore and the whole exhaust has been redone 2.25 inch straight pipe, no muffler...

I noid light checked the injector circuits to ensure nothing was wrong there and all checked out well. However....



How's your fuel pressure?

The old A20 FPR seems to have quit on me and was allowing too much gas to be returned even though pressure read fine. I now use a B series FPR that I got with the craigslist stock rail. It now runs 40 PSI idle and tops out at 55 PSI during a rev...so I probably had a lot of detonation going on with way too much air and incorrect timing.


Sounds like my engine did before the gasket blew between 2-3. You check compression yet?

Obd1 conversion headaches - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l5uzqoWfLA&feature=share&list=UUfjy9bUHZdQxsN8BAjxL-Kg)

I have checked compression, months ago and determined it wasnt great numbers but it wasnt terrible either. I dont remember exact figures except for Cyl 1 and 3 being 150 PSI consistently, Cyl 4 was the odd ball around 80 or so and Cyl 2 was somewhere around 120 PSI.


watched the vid on facebook. not sure anymore. like everyone else says its prolly internal

Guys I know with weird compression numbers its not an ideal setup but I've been told many times it should still run good, a couple of these people from this community at one point. I believe the absence of cold start points to the problem remaining. The new FPR alone made things much much better and its still moving in the right direction running better and better but theres still a power production issue...which again I believe the cold start issue will point out a major problem. You have to wonder yourselves, why doesnt it work anymore? I've been trying to figure out what chiltons manual to get so maybe it can guide me to possible causes.

POS carb
01-31-2013, 10:32 AM
what's your a/f ratio looking like?
There's a lot of blowby coming out the breather, I'm thinking you have incorrect spark or cam timing, can you change the timing as the car is running? Also, some hondas have a jumper that needs to be connected when setting the timing near the passenger side, look into it.

89T
01-31-2013, 11:10 AM
what's your a/f ratio looking like?
There's a lot of blowby coming out the breather, I'm thinking you have incorrect spark or cam timing, can you change the timing as the car is running? Also, some hondas have a jumper that needs to be connected when setting the timing near the passenger side, look into it.

That jumper needs to be wired directly from the ecu when you do the conversion. Our stock harness does not have that wired in.

89T
02-09-2013, 07:38 AM
Any updates?

89T
02-16-2013, 05:31 PM
Bump

Rendon LX-i
02-16-2013, 08:24 PM
Will this explains a lot your not timed. Doing a leak down test or compression test would tell a lot as well. Time that thing first

89T
04-18-2013, 03:26 PM
Get it running?

Susanoo
04-22-2013, 04:54 PM
Damn, sorry about getting back to you guys so late. I've been pretty busy with stuff lately.


what's your a/f ratio looking like?
There's a lot of blowby coming out the breather, I'm thinking you have incorrect spark or cam timing, can you change the timing as the car is running? Also, some hondas have a jumper that needs to be connected when setting the timing near the passenger side, look into it.


Get it running?

I have yet to find anyone with a timing light or buy my own ;P I did however go through the whole fuel system and found that the injector filters were junked up and after cleaning them really well its road worthy and I've driven it the last week and a half to work and back and more. I run about 14.5-15 AFR while cruising on flat ground. I got datalogging to work here recently so I've got some of that if anyone wants to look at it. However, O2 and RPM dont display proper values for some reason and ECT voltage appears to be jumping around between 1 and 2 volts. Why, I have no idea, I went through the engine harness and corrected the sensor wiring so it's either interference, unstable connection, or something directly feeding back into the wiring somewhere (i.e. improperly connected circuits). I have no idea why O2 is saying a constant 10.2-10.5 and im not even sure what that number means to the ECU in relation to AFR or it could be that freelog isnt set up correctly.

Susanoo
04-22-2013, 07:10 PM
I just did a beer run down to walmart and data logged on the way. I noticed that since I set the O2 to wideband TB...something (the rest is cut off by the menu) It says 7.5ish while my wideband reads 14.8...clearly its still not right so I might try voltage like I said, until I can get some help at setting that and RPM properly.

Susanoo
05-03-2013, 02:22 PM
Alright well the other day I drove to work and dropped a friend off in the pouring down rain but never hit a single puddle. I got got around perfectly fine. I come out from work hours and hours later and find that the innovate wideband wasnt working correctly, it just held 8.9 on the gauge and the heater system didnt seem to be activating/starting. So I fooled around for a while and decided to reset it by pulling the sensor, turning it on, waiting 10 some odd seconds and shutting it off. Then doing a free air calibration and all that fun stuff. Did the same thing, so I messed with some power and grounds and what not and nothing changed. I waited a few minutes and tried it, started working, however it still displays 8.9, instead of like 7.4 on warm up then flip to full lean when its done heating. Not to mention the levels are bouncing around all over the place and the car ran like shit all the way home running mostly lean.

and heres an official update on whats going on with the car current...

I still dont have a "cold start mode" It just idles like its warm when its actually bone cold. I cannot get a change out this no matter what I do.

I have what I wanna say sounds like a manifold vacuum leak right at the head on number 4 but I have not tested this yet and I might have to take the manifold off to see for sure in which case I would replace the seal anyway since its just a paper gasket.

I cannot get freelog to display RPM's, O2, or ECT values correctly and IAT stays at 250-264 bone cold or hell hot. Im still unsure of signal issues and question that the ECT from autozone is a proper replacement. UPDATE: I got a TW5 from an F22 that I'll try to see if that changes things. I also recently acquired a 94 integra data harness that I intend to use as replacement and relocate the ECU to the passenger side to reduce the chance of interference and ensure sensors feed back to the ECU as required.

2ndGenGuy
05-03-2013, 03:42 PM
If I were you, I'd try to figure out why all that shit isn't displaying correctly in your software. I wouldn't question a specific sensor when you've got bad data coming in from 4 different places. (Tach, O2, ECT and IAT). I can't imagine replacing any one sensor resolving all those problems.

Susanoo
05-06-2013, 03:45 PM
If I were you, I'd try to figure out why all that shit isn't displaying correctly in your software. I wouldn't question a specific sensor when you've got bad data coming in from 4 different places. (Tach, O2, ECT and IAT). I can't imagine replacing any one sensor resolving all those problems.

I have no idea if these are true values or if they're just improper settings in the software. There are options for how to display everything but I cannot find any kind of "guide" to setting it up for just any obd1 honda. I decided to completely redo the data harness to make sure things are right and im using an obd1 B18 non-vtec integra data harness and I'll just make an adapter harness to go through the firewall for now and get a mil spec firewall plug later and im also gonna relocate the ECU to the passenger side. I'll have to get back to you guys later when this is done.

Rendon LX-i
05-06-2013, 05:02 PM
Load a base map an dont fuck with any of the settings. Smooth out the map an timing adaptives remember when u burn a check remove Ecu checksum. You shouldn't have any issue if so u have wiring grounds you need to fix an drops on your circuits

Susanoo
05-07-2013, 07:24 PM
wait, I have to do that after every single change?? I thought I read that you did it and it was done...shit...<_< well all this needs to get done anyway because of the weird signals I'm getting and I regret to inform that I forgot all about grounding the other end of the dizzy signal ground, you know, that wire mesh stuff, so yea I was probably getting interference pretty bad. I'm working on running the B18 harness through the A/C drain hole on the firewall for now and I'll install the milspec firewall plug later when I get it. I gotta make a mounting plate for the ecu too.