will car run without fuel pump relay?

[mykwikcoupe]

So I have been playing with the racetek hatch over the winter. I noticed when i was investigating a few other electrical issues I didn't like that the fuel pump cutoff relay wasn't installed in the back of the fuse panel. On the next trip to the junkyard I grabbed one and slapped it in there. The next time I tried to start the car it wont start. The main relay is good, I checked that since its the most common culprit to me. When you turn the key on I get no prime sound just silence. I pulled the fuel cutoff relay back out and it still wont start. This car was driven up to me with id suppose no relay installed. I haven't had a chance to drive it since i feel the issues with the car need fixed before its considered roadworthy. I know the previous owner had to replace the fuel pump. I don't know why. but it was close to the time i got the car. Anyone have any thoughts? I have no fuel pressure I checked at the fuel filter on the firewall. no movement what so ever.

[Legend_master]

Did you make sure the fuel pump fuse is not blown?

[89T]

check for power at the fuel pump. They might have re wired it.

[mykwikcoupe]

I didnt have alot of time tonight to mess with it since it was getting dark and I still had to clean up the mess and tools. i will check the basics more thoroughly tomorrow. I wasnt sure if the car would even run without the safety device installed but yet it was driven up to me without it?

[Legend_master]

Was the chassis originally carbed? Lookin at the shop manual the fuel pump cut-off relay was a carb only item.

[ShyBoyCA6]

well when my car wouldn't turn on, this was before i didn't know the car. my uncle cut the wire to the fuel pump i think it was yellow? he ran a wire and put it on the fuel pump fuse in the cabin and it turned on. even if the safety is there the pump is getting power directly and thought that its a dangerous trick to do but needed my car.

[mykwikcoupe]

haha how funny is that. i saw an empty slot and thought I needed to fill it. I didn't even investigate whether or not it was a mandatory item. I was reading about it on the board and it sounded like an important item to have. I wonder how much damage I've caused with this little fiasco. I'm sure its just a fuse, hopefully. Didn't get a chance to look today maybe tomorrow.

[mykwikcoupe]

OK, checked today. I have spark. ECU throws code 2, sometimes but always 21 and 22. If the vtec solenoid is plugged in it will throw 21. if its unplugged it wont. I don't have a vtec oil pressure switch thingy.

With the key on I have no voltage at the fuel pump. Not when you first switch the key on to build pressure or afterwards. While cranking I have 10 volts at the pump. I thought this may be a main relay issue so i swapped it out with a known good unit and nothing changed. I verified when the key turns on the relay immediately clicks followed by a second click. When cranking, a click, release the key another click. Sounds right to me. But no start, no fuel pressure. I checked all the fuses and they appear to be good. under hood and under dash. I don't think there's another fuel relay? I was so close to taking it in for Washington certs as well

[Legend_master]

OK, checked today. I have spark. ECU throws code 2, sometimes but always 21 and 22. If the vtec solenoid is plugged in it will throw 21. if its unplugged it wont. I don't have a vtec oil pressure switch thingy.

With the key on I have no voltage at the fuel pump. Not when you first switch the key on to build pressure or afterwards. While cranking I have 10 volts at the pump. I thought this may be a main relay issue so i swapped it out with a known good unit and nothing changed. I verified when the key turns on the relay immediately clicks followed by a second click. When cranking, a click, release the key another click. Sounds right to me. But no start, no fuel pressure. I checked all the fuses and they appear to be good. under hood and under dash. I don't think there's another fuel relay? I was so close to taking it in for Washington certs as well


I would look and see if there are any wires run directly to the fuel pump, not sure how that whole swap was wired.

[mykwikcoupe]

fuel pump seemed to be wired as normal. I know he went through and removed as much from old systems as he could. It kinda gets me that it ran in the winter. I've been playing with the whole radiator fan thing. He bypassed the entire system and put it on a toggle switch running off an aftermarket relay. i promptly removed all that garbage and started salvaging as much from the stock system as i could. I verified to have the proper wires with continuity from the radiator fan and radiator thermoswitch to the relay under the hood. I verified power through the system to the fuses. the only wire i changed was he had no power from the under dash fuse box to the under hood fuse box to power the relay. i ran the power from the #1 extra slot above the under dash fuse panel and spliced into the proper location of the fan relay. I did cut the stock wire out but from what I can tell on the diagrams it goes from one panel to the other unspliced. If I had no continuity then it should be able to be abandoned correct?

When I got the car the fan relays were removed so Id assume he had no use at all for that wire I couldn't locate. I guess Ill have to temporarily hook it back up and see if it starts.

[mykwikcoupe]

Checking Main Relay, with pics!!! - Honda-Tech (http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2535047)

This is an excellent how to. It worked me through the entire main relay troubleshoot. Follow the pin numbers listed on the relay though. His locarions are different then ours on at least 1 pin.

It turned out to be a fuel pump. Luckily I had the new in box walbro 255 from the turbo project. Shes running and purring. It idles from 900 to 1100. Its smooth and quite at 900 barely know its running. At 1100 it shakes a bit and the dash rattles. I forget how agressive this thing is over the stock 300k a20a I have for a commuter

[Legend_master]

Checking Main Relay, with pics!!! - Honda-Tech (http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2535047)

This is an excellent how to. It worked me through the entire main relay troubleshoot. Follow the pin numbers listed on the relay though. His locarions are different then ours on at least 1 pin.

It turned out to be a fuel pump. Luckily I had the new in box walbro 255 from the turbo project. Shes running and purring. It idles from 900 to 1100. Its smooth and quite at 900 barely know its running. At 1100 it shakes a bit and the dash rattles. I forget how agressive this thing is over the stock 300k a20a I have for a commuter

Its the best feeling when the car finally fires up after tracking down a problem like that!

[mykwikcoupe]

Yes it was another step towards being roadworthy. I bet the car idled for 15 minutes before the gauge leveled out. I have near zero hot air in the cabin. It looks like the cable going to the valve needs adjusted.

I removed the ballast resistor. Made no obvious change in how the car ran. I did also find that the coil plug tower on the dizzy was loose. I was looking at the heater. Core pipez and snap. Havent been shocked by a plug in about 17 years.

You ever use that ac bracket for the b series swap? I need to install power steering as well.

[Legend_master]

Yes it was another step towards being roadworthy. I bet the car idled for 15 minutes before the gauge leveled out. I have near zero hot air in the cabin. It looks like the cable going to the valve needs adjusted.

I removed the ballast resistor. Made no obvious change in how the car ran. I did also find that the coil plug tower on the dizzy was loose. I was looking at the heater. Core pipez and snap. Havent been shocked by a plug in about 17 years.

You ever use that ac bracket for the b series swap? I need to install power steering as well.


Yeah I actually have been running that bracket for the last year. I would recommend trying to retrofit the b-series compressor with the a b-series bracket. All you would have to do it have some custom lines made. The PRI bracket is designed to work with the compressor that tends to have seal issues. If you use the other compressor it makes it very difficult to make the belt have tension as there is very little room for adjustment.

[mykwikcoupe]

Nice, On my list of things to complete with this car. The next big venture is power steering. Its all been removed. Every component of it. Ill need to spend some time figuring out whats needed to get it to work as it should new.

The brakes I have nearly all the parts for. It going to get my last 12.5in AEM front and rear kit. Anyone know of a place to find replacement rotors if I need them? the hubs unbolt from the discs so they could be replaced assuming any replacements exist. Powerslot puchased AEM years ago and they have their own 12in kit. Dont want to have my calipers overhanging the rotors.

The suspension will be another task. I need to get all new bushings, I have new hubs, arms, all that jazz. Im glad I had been a parts whore for so long. I have nearly all the parts to complete the car without any out of pocket expenses.

[Oldblueaccord]

yep good info should be in the EFI section as well maybe under my name. The HT thread is post in the techmeup link he should really give credit on it but hey its H+T.