Im Back!!

[87_HaTcH]

Hello long time no post.. its chris im the owner of "steves B swaped coupe". i still have the car. I been driving it off and on for the past 5 years. but shes bout ready for an overhaul... first the rear engine mount is busted and needs work.. passenger side door sags and needs new hinges. and the rust is showing threw in spots including the engine bay spot...:crying: but... the most recent problem im having i jus cant figure out. soo maybe some other helpful 3geezers can help me out. OKAY


I was driving the coupe the other day and i noticed a noise coming from the trans. i was about home so i made it to the drive way. i thought the trans was low on fluid soo i toped it off, started it and still had the niose . I took the key out of the ignition and put it on the seat. i went to shut the door (mind you the key beeping noise was still beeping like the key was still in igniton) and the car jus started up when i slamed the door?!! soo i had to put the key back in the igniton and shut the car off. soo the noise i was hearing was the starter trying to start when to the motor was runing!! OKAY soo without further testing anything i bought an igniton switch and installed it. reliezed that the car was trying to start in the II position and not the III. soo i then replaced the lock cylinder thinking it had something to do with key because its sticky and suspect.. Stilll wants to start in the II position. soo my last test was i took the igniton switch off at the back of the cylinder and tryed starting it with a screw driver and still wants to start in the II position. OKAY i further noticed the the fuse labeled "Retra SW" under the hood was blown , replaced and went to hook battery back up car jus wanted to started as sooon as i put neg terminal back on!!?? im soo stumped on this situation.
Any thoughts or comments on this topic would be appreciated. thank you guys, its good to be back!!

[Dr_Snooz]

Is it possible that the switch mounting is compromised inside the steering column? The only other possibility I can think of is that you have some funky stuff going on in your wire loom.

[87_HaTcH]

hahahahah funky stuff is a possibility. but its been fine for years and now all the sudden this starts happening. Leads me to believe it has to do with a fuse/switch/relay?

[87_HaTcH]

UPDATE: So i got some gremlins in the coupe. On top of my original post get this. i was under the dash today and i was poking around trying to find something burnt or just not right. and i went to try to start the car again and and it didnt do what my original post stated. i turned the key to the II position and the battery light came on but no check engine. and the fuel pump came on cause i started the car like normal and it ran fine no problems except the gas gauge and tach didnt work Plus the head light motors woundnt work??
Things to keep in mind:
-The fuse labeled "Retra SW" under the hood. It a 10amp fuse. It was blown when i first had this problem i replaced and now i was messing with it (pushing it down making sure it was in all the way) and i heard a click from the starter? and the fuse popped??! what does that tie into? what circuit?
-I HAVE been looking at wiring diagrams, multiple wiring diagrams... just those words alone gives me a headache at this point.
-The car when Steve had it originally was an automatic and he swapped it to 5speed, but i wish i could have a word with him now about how he bypassed the clutch safety switch. Because i never had to push the clutch in to start it.. and that could be a problem there as well...

All in all im really stumped on what to do next. Everything points to me digging under the dash more. As much as i want it to be something staring me in the face i dont think its gonna be that easy. Soo wish me luck and again anyone that has had similar problems or just has any insight on this topic enlighten me please.. Thank you...

[87_HaTcH]

BUMP!!!

Update!
First off i thought there would be more replies to this... Thanks to me not being a complete idiot, i did figure out part of the problem.

Now on to the next problem. See trying to read wiring diagrams and things in the manual is 50/50 for me. It's a gamble cause the car has been swaped from auto to 5 speed, carb to efi, and A to B swap. soo trying to figure out what Steve did has been a nightmare. from a wiring stand point.

Never the less i found a wire loom unpluged under the pedals. 2 wires were cut on the loom to be wired into themselves. a green/black and the the big black/white. the rest of the loom stays unpluged. Those 2 wires that wired into themselves had a lot of extra wire and they were under the pedals and i guess from normal driving use, the wires were crushed? The wires were melted together in a couple spots!! Open copper everywhere!!

I rewired the harness new and as for the rest of the loom i bundled up..( Loom thats ungluged, no where to go??) I hooked the battery back up and i noticed right off that the chime was different than before. sounded like i had just started the car. (slower beeps) Mind you the door was open. But the car didn't just try to start by itself!! So solved that problem. Started her up and everything was buzzing when it was supposed too. fuel pump, tach gas gauge, light , motors, everything worked!! Car ran and everything worked fine.

But.. before i started the car i noticed that all the warning lights were light without the key even being in the ignition. Battery, Check Engine, Oil, Seat belt. So I am down to a smaller wiring problem somewhere else? I don't know where to start.. But i will continue to do research as well as carefully pick apart what Steve has done.. Im almost sure its close to where this issue was..

But AGAIN Any comments or thoughts on this topic would be great..

[2oodoor]

Sounds lke the key switch, but, uou could have hooked something up that is backfeeding thru the power on unswitched circuit.
Does the car have a indiglo dash?
Sorry but Ive been skipping over this thread thinking it was another one with a similar name that Ive replied to already...

[87_HaTcH]

Sounds lke the key switch, but, uou could have hooked something up that is backfeeding thru the power on unswitched circuit.
Does the car have a indiglo dash?
Sorry but Ive been skipping over this thread thinking it was another one with a similar name that Ive replied to already...

The key switch? Is that the little black thing that's held to the cylinder with 1 screw? I tryed unpluging that and no difference. Tryed unpluging the integrated control unit no difference. The lock cylinder and ignition switch are new.

I have gauges installed on the car. I guess there indiglo? They have a hot and ground wire. Ground is grounded to to the integrated control unit brackets among like 4 other things. And hot is tied into one of the wires that goes to the dimmer switch. Never been a problem...

Its just the warning lights that continue to draw after the key is out.

[2oodoor]

Hmm those are on a timer , i have to look at a diagram because the common dnominator may be warning system for door, seat belts, etc.
i asked about the guages because those have connction to headlight switch and dimmer. Also did this car have clutch interlock switch?

[dieselgus]

From the sounds of the wiring he had a go at, the clutch interlock switch is removed and wires jumped. I would start looking into any other modified harnesses under there to see what else may be acting up. Good on ya for finding the starter problem though.

[87_HaTcH]

Hmm those are on a timer , i have to look at a diagram because the common dnominator may be warning system for door, seat belts, etc.
i asked about the guages because those have connction to headlight switch and dimmer. Also did this car have clutch interlock switch?

Okay "clutch interlock switch"? Theres like 6 or 7 small plugs that just dangle by those switchs into the pedal. assembly.
All of those plugs look good, and i have been trying to not have to take the dash off...:bs:

I see that in the diagram. the timer. But the beeps don't happen if the door is closed mind you we aren't starting the car yet. Just when you hook the neg back up.

Looking at wiring diagrams this is what i get... see if we are all on the same page....

The warning lights in the cluster are powered with 2 wires from the fuse box under the dash. No. 1 and No. 2 fuses are used. BLK/YEL off of the No.1 and YEL off of the No.2 fuse. Okay the 2 wires split into 2 BLK/YEL and 2 YEL. Probably somewhere behind the cluster.

One set of the wires goes to power the charge warning light, and the check engine warning,oil pressure and seat belt reminder warnings. The other set goes to power the actual gauges themselves.
So i removed both fuses thinking i would break the circuit. Im just testing with hooking the neg back up. Nothing changed. So now im looking at things that come off the lights in the gauge assembly.
Like the seat belt reminder goes to the integrated control unit. And i believe that control until is tied into the chime.. :idea:
Or it could be wiring to the alternator.
Ill just have to keep digging . And THANKS those who have responded this has been a :facepalm:

[2oodoor]

Clutch interlock opens the starter circuit until you push the clutch in.
Those other danglers could be cruise cont cancel and brake lights. The idiot lights should come on as a test when the ign switch first is enguaged but go out momentarily when the starter is enguaged then when the key returns to the run position they go out... But only if the car started and is running.
The idiot lights get grounded to come on correct? If you ground the oil sender wire outside, the oil light comes on correct?
So by that theory the idiot lights are getting grounded momentarily by the "timer interface" until the car is running, so how does it know? Coil negative tach feed?
The actual dash lights come on when the lights are turned on but I think that goes thru the dimmer pot switch so do the idiot lights dim if you dim the cluster? I think that may help isolate the cause a little if thet don't.
Are the headlight retracters working properly? Fuse doing ok? If the hood is closed and too close to a lid the relay can short out temporarily fyi.
Where is the main relay installed for the carb to efi conversion? The whoke harness was used im assuming and not spliced in?
This seems somewhat related to the ign switch position problem from before you taped up wires! I have yet to check out a diagram in this, i will try to get to that.

[87_HaTcH]

The fuse is fine now. Retracter motors are fine now too. Car starts and runs fine. Yes im thinking its grounding out somewhere. But where? There all lit not jus one.

The main relay dangles by the fuse box and yes I believe steve used a whole new harness for efi. He had the car gutted at one point. Any ideas at this point are nice.

[2oodoor]

I would check that there is nothing touching the terminals on the ign switch and if this was not happening before you taped up the wires then I would untape and do one thing at a time with the wires, with the car running. That is just me and may not be the best thing to do so if you, be careful.
One other thing I would try is swapping around some relays but if thats where the issue is there will be a different issue afterwards so keep track of which one went where lol

[87_HaTcH]

I would check that there is nothing touching the terminals on the ign switch and if this was not happening before you taped up the wires then I would untape and do one thing at a time with the wires, with the car running. That is just me and may not be the best thing to do so if you, be careful.
One other thing I would try is swapping around some relays but if thats where the issue is there will be a different issue afterwards so keep track of which one went where lol

I know the the ign switch is right, and as far as the harness i fixed. ( 3 wires were melted together but , they all ran back to each other soo is was shorting the starter.) i cant go back. I dont really know what circuits where being made haha. All i know is if i hooked the battery up it just tryed to start. and the head light motors were finicky. Thats fixed.

The plot thickens..... I removed my gauge cluster today. Only to be surprised at steves work. Theres a couple wires that have been messed with. 3 black wires going to 1, 3 red into 1, 3 red/black into 1 and 2 blacks into 1. i touch the loom thats taped back behind the cluster and the lights went off. ( doing my testing with the battery hooked up) But the tail light bulb indicator light was on? soo i was like one problem to the next. Still figured it had something to do with that loom. Un-taped the loom and thats where those wires were i just mentioned. Steve used brass "Neekos?"
Think i spelled that right. Either way they 're basically crimped together. Tryed pulling on them lightly and no play held strong. soo i was puzzled. i hooked battery back to see that the lights where back on! brake light bulb warning was off. What?

Soo at this point i just hooked the cluster up and the battery and started touching everything. you should see the inside of the coupe. Wires, peices, of the interior, tools... its a mess...
I noticed that the the brake light warning bulb was back on now too. Soo again Im in the manual looking at diagrams....... From what im looking at its either a green/red or a green/white hah but there could always be more.. thats grounding out after the bulb, but before a switch? unless theres wires crossed?.... Problem is finding them... i will have to doo some tests on te relays involved on some of the circuits involved. Thanks again 2oodoor you have been helpful! Nice to get another set of eyes on those diagrams and some thoughts?

[Dr_Snooz]

I had no idea that this car had been through so many swaps and wire hacks. You have your hands full, but you're definitely on the right track looking over the customizations. With regard to the clutch bypass, remember that this car never had a clutch bypass. It had the safety stuff for an automatic. Those wires are all under the center console, so that's where the hacks would be. If the car is cranking over, then they are probably fine, but it might be worth checking them out anyway.

[2oodoor]

Which brake light is on? The door ajar/bulb warning?
Mine stays only because my third brake light is unplugged but FWIW those things are always finiky on every 3rd gen Ive had.