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Dr_Snooz
04-20-2013, 09:50 AM
You might have missed this bit of news amid all the confusion surrounding the Boston bombings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/world/us-practiced-torture-after-9-11-nonpartisan-review-concludes.html
Clinton, Bush and Obama: US War Crimes over Three Administrations | Global Research (http://www.globalresearch.ca/clinton-bush-and-obama-us-war-crimes-over-three-administrations/5331757)

The Constitution Project has released a non-partisan report on its study into torture and war crimes by Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama. The study was headed by two former Congressmen, one a Republican and the other a Democrat. The report is 600 pages and its findings are simply horrifying. It states without qualification that the US has engaged in torture and war crimes under the last three presidents. As signatory to the international Convention Against Torture, the US has pledged to investigate promptly any allegations of torture and to compensate victims. Please call your congresspersons to request that they begin thorough Congressional inquiries into the allegations this report makes. Obama should be impeached. The CIA needs to be thoroughly investigated for black sites and extraordinary renditions (as well as the unconscionable drone war). Obama, Clinton, George W and others (like Dick Cheney, John Ashcroft, Alberto Gonzalez, Don Rumsfeld and Hillary Clinton) need to stand trial at International Criminal Court in The Hague on war crimes charges.

These are very grave matters that implicate our highest elected officials. Worse, they point to pervasive corruption in Washington that includes both major political parties and multiple branches and agencies of the federal government. This report needs to be investigated properly, the guilty must be removed from power, tried and locked away.

Call your Congressional representatives!

2oodoor
04-20-2013, 11:27 AM
So a blogger in Denver does a "report" of which no access of classified materials was used, so what this is is some minimalist's attempt to "expose" corruption and inhuman interregation of war criminal scandel...I call bs only because it is reflective of twisted sensationalism in public media.

Dr_Snooz
04-20-2013, 05:55 PM
Blogger in Denver? I'm linking to the NY Times and Global Research. Allegations of US war crimes have been coming up continually in the news for nearly 10 years. War crimes cannot be ignored or rationalized. This needs to be investigated.

2oodoor
04-21-2013, 04:13 AM
The Ny times article is merely quoting and reporting the guy's essay lmao 'report'.
The Constitutional Project on the other hand consist's of others just like him, babbling on about anything anti government. Wholy crap did you check their site? How many writers contributed identical essay with different alignment of text...dozens, geez really necessary to add content to their bogus think tank ( thats probably receivng govt grants!WTF in attempt to legitimize their existence.
IMO officials need to do whatever is necessary to gain the upper hand to our (or their if you will) interests. Some cultures do this to our people they have captured, so it is the 'language' they understand. I do find some of it appauling, like Guantonimo, but it is a very tough decision and Im sure they all are. Not like our officials are getting off on it to stroke narcesisstic sociopathic egos, as the minimalist's would have it. Fancy bs name like"the constitutional project" and legendary fonts project officialness but 2 minutes of reading it IMO rings fraud, so they blast off these articles or essays whatever... Showing their own narcesistic methods of influencing others through emotional channels rather than focusing on positive results that are protecting their own rights to run off at the mouth with negativity.


Now do tell... Did my writing style trigger an emotional response (troll) when all I did was state an opinion different from yours? Point made :)

You're right though, we should all be in touch with our congress people. Impeaching our Prez, seeking perceived justice to ex Prez, not hardly...that's just wrong and 2 wrongs don't make a "right" in every sense of the word.:kekeke:

Dr_Snooz
04-21-2013, 05:21 PM
I see. So 600 pages of eyewitness testimonies, interviews with victims and other publically available reports count for nothing. You form your opinion based on the fonts they use? You don't know what monstrosities are being visited upon others, and don't care, so long as it's not being done to you. There really isn't anything I can say to that, is there? I just hope that strategy works out for you in the end. If it doesn't, rest assured that I will brave the abuse of others to fight on your behalf. God bless you.

2oodoor
04-22-2013, 02:26 AM
Wait a second, how did I become the target ? Lol I don't take it personal and Suppose that's fair play since I kinda set phasers on stun in that post.
Great selection of paraphrase to get me, the fonts in old English like a iconical news paper or document, just thought it a bit corny.
So with all this evidence, much like bigfoot sightings or alein abductions, the govt the E-stablishment, covertly cover up the covert. I say show me but then I really don't want to know. There are lots of appauling actions behind the scenes of most anything mankind does, heh like how weiners are made, we prefer not to see but the desird results.
Seriously though I wonder when the classfied info can be released for public information so these "reports" can amend validation. Cough cough but quote Si Robertson> Hey Jack ! now lets go find a Sqwatch :) got my beef jerky...

2oodoor
04-22-2013, 01:50 PM
Come on, somebody else chime in with your thoughts, I don't want to be one on one with a mod and a friend in a political bouncy house chit chat lol
I do get what the over all point is of the OP concern but the "organized" authors of the material provided just annoys me. They should just come out and say what they really are trying to say in layman's terms but it would just sound nutty as conspiracy theory usually does.

2drSE-i
04-22-2013, 02:46 PM
Always a good quote, and it definitely applies here:

"First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Catholic.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me."


What is truly unfortunate is that your congressman doesn't care.

stat1K
04-22-2013, 07:46 PM
do you think calling a congressman does something? that's my question.

Dr_Snooz
04-22-2013, 08:25 PM
Roo, I'm afraid my frustration is going to come through here, and you might think it's aimed at you. It isn't. You're a good friend and I value you and your contributions to this board. The truth is, I'm getting so much crap from people who should know better when I try to warn them, show them, get them to act. My first post is a copy of an email I blasted out to all my friends and family. Within a few hours, I got a call from a very close friend who proceeded to berate me at length for sending it out. He told me to "lighten up, man." He said he was "very disappointed" in me, that I am wasting my talents and that I should be worried about truly important things like birth control for women in Africa (no lie). I was literally stunned speechless and said nothing. He finally realized how insane he sounded and fell quiet. I've been getting crap from family members too. These are people I respect and care about, but they refuse to see the approaching danger.

Torture was discussed ad nauseum in the New York Times for Bush's entire first term. Stories about DU rounds being used in Iraq and again in Libya (both war crimes), about the targeting of civilians and rescue workers in the Afghanistan drone war (more war crimes) about free fire zones in designated combat areas (more war crimes) have been coming through newswires, blogs, documentaries, etc. ever since. They are coming from left-wing and right-wing sources. Obviously, you aren't reading these stories. How do I educate you? If I drip such stories to the board, I get "TLDR" or "lighten up" or some other such smart-alec stuff. Most people won't even read the thread. So I wait until someone reputable puts together a 600 page study on the issue that contains all the info you need to educate yourself. You just call it "conspiracy theory" without even looking at it. Did you even bother to read the Global Research article? Did you hear Daliwar's story? Again, I'm not attacking you. This is happening to me everywhere.

Help me. How do I penetrate the deep psychosis of most Americans and get them to understand that seriously twisted shit is going down and that it will, with absolute certainty, be coming to their front doors before it's over? Black evil from the darkest pit in hell is taking over our land. We're in terrible danger but if it isn't funny cat videos on Facebook, no one pays attention. I'm sorry to vent, and again, it's not just you. It's everyone. How do I frame this in a way that people start listening? War crimes are just ONE of countless horrible things happening in the world right now (from climate change (or geo-engineering if you're a right-winger) to GMO crops to martial law in Boston). I try to tell people to act, but they only turn on ME in anger. How do I get people to wake up? What's the key to this lock, because I keep failing to open it. Seriously. I'm all ears. If I have to stand on my head and drink purple Kool-Aid, I'll do it.

Vanilla Sky
04-24-2013, 01:42 AM
I agree with the sentiment, Snooz, but I really don't think the issue is the guy at top as much as it is culture that has made it acceptable to torture someone as long as it keeps us "safe". Most people don't understand that there are things you can't do, even in the name of war.

cygnus x-1
04-24-2013, 08:41 AM
I agree with the sentiment, Snooz, but I really don't think the issue is the guy at top as much as it is culture that has made it acceptable to torture someone as long as it keeps us "safe". Most people don't understand that there are things you can't do, even in the name of war.


That may be, but the guy at the top is ultimately responsible for what the country does. If he knows that things like this are happening he has an obligation to do something about it. At the very least he shouldn't be approving it.

What's interesting is that this seems to have started before 9/11, with Clinton. I haven't read the report so I don't know how far back they've investigated, but it almost makes me wonder how far back this actually goes and who/what started it and why.


C|

cygnus x-1
04-24-2013, 09:44 AM
Help me. How do I penetrate the deep psychosis of most Americans and get them to understand that seriously twisted shit is going down and that it will, with absolute certainty, be coming to their front doors before it's over? Black evil from the darkest pit in hell is taking over our land. We're in terrible danger....


As far as penetrating the deep psychosis of most Americans; if you can figure out how to do that you are an exceptional person indeed. Everyone has their own view of how the world is, their own reality you could say, and they are naturally suspicious of others who don't share that same reality, especially when those others claim that their reality is wrong. The more different another's reality is, the more suspicious we are. Everyone likes to think that their own view of reality is the correct one. If we went through life doubting our own view of reality, I think it would be pretty difficult just to get through the day.

So what this means is that it takes time to change peoples minds. The only other way is for them to witness another reality first hand. They have to experience it. This is sometimes painful or even fatal, but it's the way it is.

On a more practical level, using language like "Black evil from the darkest pit in hell is taking over our land. We're in terrible danger..." makes you sound like a crackpot, regardless of whether you are or you aren't, or if what you say is true or not.


In your original message:


You might have missed this bit of news amid all the confusion surrounding the Boston bombings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/16/wo...concludes.html
Clinton, Bush and Obama: US War Crimes over Three Administrations | Global Research

The Constitution Project has released a non-partisan report on its study into torture and war crimes by Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama. The study was headed by two former Congressmen, one a Republican and the other a Democrat. The report is 600 pages and its findings are simply horrifying. It states without qualification that the US has engaged in torture and war crimes under the last three presidents. As signatory to the international Convention Against Torture, the US has pledged to investigate promptly any allegations of torture and to compensate victims. Please call your congresspersons to request that they begin thorough Congressional inquiries into the allegations this report makes. Obama should be impeached. The CIA needs to be thoroughly investigated for black sites and extraordinary renditions (as well as the unconscionable drone war). Obama, Clinton, George W and others (like Dick Cheney, John Ashcroft, Alberto Gonzalez, Don Rumsfeld and Hillary Clinton) need to stand trial at International Criminal Court in The Hague on war crimes charges.

These are very grave matters that implicate our highest elected officials. Worse, they point to pervasive corruption in Washington that includes both major political parties and multiple branches and agencies of the federal government. This report needs to be investigated properly, the guilty must be removed from power, tried and locked away.

Call your Congressional representatives!


All that stuff in bold uses inflammatory language and people that don't already believe it will immediately think that you're nuts and dismiss everything you've said outright. The best way to convince people is to feed them information without providing any judgement whatsoever, either stated or implied. Let people draw their own conclusions. They have to find their own way.




but if it isn't funny cat videos on Facebook, no one pays attention.

What would you rather see? Doom and gloom or funny cat videos? Interestingly I think this is why The Dailey Show is so popular. It makes difficult subjects more approachable by adding in some comedy.




I'm sorry to vent, and again, it's not just you. It's everyone. How do I frame this in a way that people start listening? War crimes are just ONE of countless horrible things happening in the world right now (from climate change (or geo-engineering if you're a right-winger) to GMO crops to martial law in Boston). I try to tell people to act, but they only turn on ME in anger. How do I get people to wake up? What's the key to this lock, because I keep failing to open it. Seriously. I'm all ears. If I have to stand on my head and drink purple Kool-Aid, I'll do it.

Unfortunately the louder you yell, the more you will sound like that crazy guy on the street corner holding the sign that says "The end is near". Unless you are a VERY charismatic individual, commanding people to act is going to turn them off instantly.

Beyond what I've said so far, I really don't have any other answers for you.


C|

stat1K
04-24-2013, 12:49 PM
I'll refer to my earlier statement that i don't think was addressed. Has calling a congressman ever changed anything? Do you think that it ever will? Or should i just keep wasting my time? I've written to congressman in arizona on several occasions. None of it has ever recieved more than a form email back. In addition i have called the office of senator john mccain once and wouldn't you know i was not able to speak to him?

can i propose that your (snooz) form of psychosis is thinking that you can change how the united states, or the world, works by calling a single person who has the smallest iota of power? "Nothing will ever get done if you don't at least try" right?

2oodoor
04-24-2013, 03:06 PM
I suppose that is a valid point, calling is only good if you're blackmailing them or ordering bbq tickets :(
Petitions are a stronger communication, or wtf social media seems to carry the chatter these days.

Oh and whomever wants to work on a petition, make sure you don't knock on the door of anyone who lost a child, parent or loved via decapetation on vidiotape or wtf even an ied.
I get the warning yes I do and I see several scenerios that could play eventually but then there are billions of perspectives or realities if you will.

And, here's a roodoo special, I saw on tv where bees tend not to build hives near strong cell signals, whod a thunk it...so hmmm that said, I guess if you're a tmobil user your chances of getting attacked by killer bees is significantly reduced!

Dr_Snooz
04-24-2013, 07:49 PM
All that stuff in bold uses inflammatory language and people that don't already believe it will immediately think that you're nuts and dismiss everything you've said outright. The best way to convince people is to feed them information without providing any judgement whatsoever, either stated or implied. Let people draw their own conclusions. They have to find their own way.

And yet it was only after I got belligerent that people started taking this thread seriously. I think the answer is to start grabbing people and shaking them. When someone's house is on fire, you don't go to them calmly and present your expert case. You yell loudly, kick down the door and drag them out.

For more than a decade and over three presidents, the US has been committing crimes against humanity. I've read countless calm and reasoned reports about it. All were thoroughly researched and dispassionately presented. Yet no one read them. It reminds me of all the Germans who lived within sight of the death camps and yet somehow had no idea what was going on. Even though they had heard the rumors and the air stank of burning flesh and thousands went in, but none came out, they somehow just couldn't figure out what was going on. They had only to walk over and take a peek. Instead, they made their wimpy excuses, never raised their voices and went quietly about their daily lives hoping evil would pass them by. No one had the courage to grab these people and shake them, no one had the fortitude to start yelling, so great evil continued. When the Allies forced them to walk through the camps, they were confronted with their own willfull ignorance and the realization that they had been full participants in the Holocaust. They were as guilty as the Nazi guards because they did nothing. Sorry, you can do what you want, but I'm going to keep yelling.

If you want to call me crazy, fine, call me crazy, but the facts are there. Your ignorance of them is not a refutation. It's just ignorance. Your labeling me cannot change reality. If you choose to roll over and go back to sleep, then that's your choice. But at least my craziness has awakened you long enough to hear me. I can no longer be blamed for remaining silent.

If you don't think calling a Congressman will do any good, fine. Just do something. I don't care what it is. Send smoke signals. Jump on a trampoline. Hire a sky-writer. If it works, tell me about it, but don't sit there and throw stones at me because I'm calling out a moral outrage. I'm doing something, and something is always more than nothing.

Vanilla Sky
04-24-2013, 08:17 PM
I'm looking for the revolution to pick up some more steam. The masses are still too satisfied with their lives.

cygnus x-1
04-26-2013, 10:32 AM
And yet it was only after I got belligerent that people started taking this thread seriously.

Are they actually taking it seriously or just responding? And how do you know that those who aren't responding aren't taking it seriously? My only point is that silence doesn't necessarily mean that people aren't listening.



I think the answer is to start grabbing people and shaking them. When someone's house is on fire, you don't go to them calmly and present your expert case. You yell loudly, kick down the door and drag them out.

Point taken. However (to be pedantic) that's not exactly the same thing and it demonstrates what I said before. In the case of someones house on fire, they can immediately see the flames for themselves. It's direct and personal. In the case of the abuses of power by our government, for most people these are not direct nor personal. They are simply words on a page or screen. And to further complicate matters we have become more desensitized to these kinds of things due to constant media saturation. 24/7 the cable news channels supply an endless stream of breaking news that ends up being mostly nonsense. This of course does not make the situation any less real, it just makes it harder for people to sort out what is real and what is crap.

So what to do? Honestly I don't know. I guess you just do whatever you think you need to do and hope for the best. And BTW, I hope you didn't get the impression that I was calling you crazy. I certainly was not.




For more than a decade and over three presidents, the US has been committing crimes against humanity. I've read countless calm and reasoned reports about it. All were thoroughly researched and dispassionately presented. Yet no one read them. It reminds me of all the Germans who lived within sight of the death camps and yet somehow had no idea what was going on. Even though they had heard the rumors and the air stank of burning flesh and thousands went in, but none came out, they somehow just couldn't figure out what was going on. They had only to walk over and take a peek. Instead, they made their wimpy excuses, never raised their voices and went quietly about their daily lives hoping evil would pass them by. No one had the courage to grab these people and shake them, no one had the fortitude to start yelling, so great evil continued.

Again, point taken. However, not quite the same situation. Sure many of them probably looked the other way because they didn't want to know what was going on. But I think many of them did know, and kept quiet for fear of being permanently silenced by government forces. Here we do not have that fear so people are free to speak out, and they are doing so all the time.




When the Allies forced them to walk through the camps, they were confronted with their own willfull ignorance and the realization that they had been full participants in the Holocaust. They were as guilty as the Nazi guards because they did nothing.

Guilty, yes. As guilty as the guards? Not quite. At least the general population didn't formally side with evil. Under extreme duress self preservation takes over. It's one of the most basic instincts we have so it's hard to fault people for this.




Sorry, you can do what you want, but I'm going to keep yelling.

If you want to call me crazy, fine, call me crazy, but the facts are there. Your ignorance of them is not a refutation. It's just ignorance. Your labeling me cannot change reality. If you choose to roll over and go back to sleep, then that's your choice. But at least my craziness has awakened you long enough to hear me. I can no longer be blamed for remaining silent.


Correct on all counts. And just to reiterate, my only point here was to answer your question "Why are people getting mad when I tell them these things?" I was not trying to state or imply anything about the truth or falseness of the articles you linked to or the information they contain.


For myself, I'm a bit surprised that this began before 9/11 and has continued as long as it has. It seems like we ought to be over this by now, yet somehow we are not. I thought it was pretty well established that torture doesn't really work. WTF are we doing this?




If you don't think calling a Congressman will do any good, fine. Just do something. I don't care what it is. Send smoke signals. Jump on a trampoline. Hire a sky-writer. If it works, tell me about it, but don't sit there and throw stones at me because I'm calling out a moral outrage. I'm doing something, and something is always more than nothing.

One person calling their congressman will likely do nothing. 10000 people calling that same congressman will certainly have an effect on that congressman. Add enough congressman together and it could make a difference.


C|

stat1K
04-26-2013, 09:02 PM
i don't believe congressman are controlled by anything more than special interest.

and snooz, no one is throwing stones. i only asked because you called the majority of people crazy for not realizing what happens in and out of this country but you yourself could be considered crazy for thinking if you do something it will change anything.

sadly i don't think anything will change.

Dr_Snooz
04-27-2013, 06:07 PM
However, not quite the same situation.

Are you suggesting that our crimes against humanity are somehow more moral than others? We have Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and countless CIA black sites. We taught nearly every Latin American dictator how to torture through our School of the Americas. We used depleted uranium in Libya and Iraq. Already cancer and birth defects are off the charts in those areas and radioactive uranium is the gift that keeps on giving. Just because it doesn't feel like Nazi Germany doesn't mean it isn't.

I too have read reports from experienced interrogators that torture is useless for getting good info. One intelligence professional I heard, however, had a good explanation for it. Torture is great for getting evidence to support the story you want to create. So, if you want to sell a bogus war on terror, you just start torturing hapless Afghani taxi drivers until they give you the "intel" you need to make your case. I've heard stories of guys under torture confessing to bombing buildings years before those buildings were even built.

If you want to know what's really going on in this country (and you should): Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! (http://www.infowars.com).

stat1K
04-28-2013, 07:25 PM
ehh when you post infowars you definitely look crazy lol... i told someone about infowars once and they wouldn't talk to me again after hahaha

2oodoor
04-29-2013, 08:17 AM
Spin Doctors of reporting

Dr_Snooz
04-29-2013, 05:59 PM
i told someone about infowars once and they wouldn't talk to me again after hahaha

It's amazing how angry people can become when you tell them the truth.

Infowars is one of only two outlets I trust for news anymore. GlobalResearch.ca is the other. If you're a liberal, read Global Research. If you're a conservative, read Infowars. Truth-out.org still has the occasional good story, but they shilled for Obama in the last election. I read stories on their site about Obama's NDAA and war crimes, but they still think I should vote for him. WTF? Talk about destroying your credibility.

cygnus x-1
05-01-2013, 10:37 AM
i don't believe congressman are controlled by anything more than special interest.


Politicians are primarily motivated by whatever keeps them in office. So what it comes down to is votes. Making yourself look good, gets you voters. Making the other guys look bad, gets you voters. Money can buy you voters. Influence can get you voters. Groups have more influence than individuals because they are a larger voting block. They also have more money to buy votes with.




sadly i don't think anything will change.

Change is inevitable. The big question is what will that change be?





Are you suggesting that our crimes against humanity are somehow more moral than others? We have Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo and countless CIA black sites. We taught nearly every Latin American dictator how to torture through our School of the Americas. We used depleted uranium in Libya and Iraq. Already cancer and birth defects are off the charts in those areas and radioactive uranium is the gift that keeps on giving.

Well, I suppose maybe I am (indirectly) but that wasn't really what I was getting at. My point was that while there may be some similarities, the situation is quite a bit different, and that our reaction (as a county) should be different. I could go into the situational differences, but I think this is really getting away from what your original point was; which is that people in general just don't want to hear that bad things are going on and that they need to pay more attention and get more involved.




I too have read reports from experienced interrogators that torture is useless for getting good info. One intelligence professional I heard, however, had a good explanation for it. Torture is great for getting evidence to support the story you want to create. So, if you want to sell a bogus war on terror, you just start torturing hapless Afghani taxi drivers until they give you the "intel" you need to make your case. I've heard stories of guys under torture confessing to bombing buildings years before those buildings were even built.

Mmm yes, a favorite tactic of the old Chicago police department.

The name "War on Terror" is kind of bogus but terrorism is a real problem. It has basically become the new form of war between conflicting groups. Huge state sponsored wars are so expensive that most states can't afford them, so we end up with smaller more localized skirmishes.




Infowars is one of only two outlets I trust for news anymore. GlobalResearch.ca is the other. If you're a liberal, read Global Research. If you're a conservative, read Infowars. Truth-out.org still has the occasional good story, but they shilled for Obama in the last election. I read stories on their site about Obama's NDAA and war crimes, but they still think I should vote for him. WTF? Talk about destroying your credibility.

Any news outlet that has ANY opinion on who you should vote for is suspect. Opinions have no business on a news site.


C|

Dr_Snooz
05-01-2013, 01:16 PM
Politicians are primarily motivated by whatever keeps them in office. So what it comes down to is votes. Making yourself look good, gets you voters. Making the other guys look bad, gets you voters. Money can buy you voters. Influence can get you voters. Groups have more influence than individuals because they are a larger voting block. They also have more money to buy votes with.

I think it's somewhat beyond that now. With the exception of Obama's first election, I can't think of any recent presidential election where either candidate genuinely excited his supposed constituency. In the last election, we were forced to choose between a war criminal and a vulture capitalist. The war criminal won a Nobel Peace Prize and the vulture capitalist promised that he would restore jobs. It's like living in a Salvador Dali painting. Most everyone who still bothers to vote holds their nose and repeats "lesser of two evils" while doing so. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that there is pervasive fraud in our elections. When these guys get in office, they consistently implement decisions that have no rational justification. They serve the bankers and CEOs who install them.


Well, I suppose maybe I am (indirectly) but that wasn't really what I was getting at. My point was that while there may be some similarities, the situation is quite a bit different, and that our reaction (as a county) should be different. I could go into the situational differences, but I think this is really getting away from what your original point was; which is that people in general just don't want to hear that bad things are going on and that they need to pay more attention and get more involved.


Here's my bottom line. We live in a country where the economy is being pillaged by insiders. Surveillance is ubiquitous. Police stomp around with assault rifles, abusing citizens at will. We had a martial law event in Boston where civil liberties were suspended and people who violated the daytime curfew were menaced by marauding police, feds and military. Our military is rampaging through the world, waging wars at will, committing war crimes and bombing wherever and whomever it pleases. We are fed a steady diet of propaganda through every TV show, radio show, newspaper and magazine to the point that people have lost all touch with reality. We have a sprawling prison system with far and away the largest number of inmates in the world. Our political leaders break laws, treaties and international agreements with impunity. Dissidents like Bradley Manning and Aaron Swartz are jailed and/or tortured and/or killed. These are the hallmarks of every authoritarian, totalitarian and fascist regime we've ever seen. You are no longer allowed to argue that's it's different when it isn't. You are not allowed to say "it won't happen here" when it is happening here.

History is quite clear as to how this will turn out. You can bury your head in the sand (a popular option), collaborate or resist. Whatever path you choose will have consequences. Some of those consequences won't be known until we stand before God in the final judgement. Think carefully about what you choose. If you choose to resist, I don't care what you do, just do something. Even if it's simply standing on a corner with a sign reading "the end is near." :stick:

Edit: I should, however, say that I'm a pacifist and reject violent solutions.

cygnus x-1
05-03-2013, 08:55 AM
I think it's somewhat beyond that now. With the exception of Obama's first election, I can't think of any recent presidential election where either candidate genuinely excited his supposed constituency. In the last election, we were forced to choose between a war criminal and a vulture capitalist. The war criminal won a Nobel Peace Prize and the vulture capitalist promised that he would restore jobs. It's like living in a Salvador Dali painting.

Between vulture capitalist and war criminal, I would have taken vulture capitalist. Although I vote Libertarian whenever I can.




Most everyone who still bothers to vote holds their nose and repeats "lesser of two evils" while doing so. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that there is pervasive fraud in our elections. When these guys get in office, they consistently implement decisions that have no rational justification. They serve the bankers and CEOs who install them.

Serving those who put you into office (and yourself) is rational, is it not? No, I find (most) politicians quite predictable. They will screw anyone and anything to get what they want and keep themselves in power. Sadly this seems to be getting worse all the time.




Here's my bottom line. We live in a country where the economy is being pillaged by insiders. Surveillance is ubiquitous. Police stomp around with assault rifles, abusing citizens at will. We had a martial law event in Boston where civil liberties were suspended and people who violated the daytime curfew were menaced by marauding police, feds and military. Our military is rampaging through the world, waging wars at will, committing war crimes and bombing wherever and whomever it pleases. We are fed a steady diet of propaganda through every TV show, radio show, newspaper and magazine to the point that people have lost all touch with reality. We have a sprawling prison system with far and away the largest number of inmates in the world. Our political leaders break laws, treaties and international agreements with impunity. Dissidents like Bradley Manning and Aaron Swartz are jailed and/or tortured and/or killed. These are the hallmarks of every authoritarian, totalitarian and fascist regime we've ever seen. You are no longer allowed to argue that's it's different when it isn't.

So I am no longer allowed to present my case because it's just clearly wrong? Are you repealing the right to free speech? Dang, I should have invoked Godwin's law sooner.




You are not allowed to say "it won't happen here" when it is happening here.

You're putting words in my mouth. Never have I said or implied "it won't happen here" or "it isn't happening here".


Look, if it wasn't obvious I've sort of been playing devil's advocate here and I do see what you're getting at. To use the vernacular, shit is fucked up. I would disagree about the severity of some things, but for sure we definitely have issues. My biggest worry at the moment is the economy and our enormous debt.




If you choose to resist, I don't care what you do, just do something. Even if it's simply standing on a corner with a sign reading "the end is near." :stick:

Edit: I should, however, say that I'm a pacifist and reject violent solutions.

Hopefully people will come up with something more constructive than standing on the corner proclaiming the end is near. At the very least go stand in front of the Whitehouse or the Capitol building. And change your sign to "The end is near, for politicians".

Violence is of course a last resort. But if it really came down to that, I think self preservation would kick in.


C|