1983 Brake booster failure?

[charliefowle03]

Have been slowly hearing a hiss noise coming out of the brake pedal region for the past couple of days and noticing a pressure drop in my pedal. The only other symptoms i can report are the pedal is rock hard right now, the rpm rise as i press the brake pedal in, the hissing noise is louder than ever. There also appears to be some major rust on the booset from both inside the engine and down by the pedal lever. any ideas??


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NLzPlJehc4

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[charliefowle03]

the freakin hair is fantastic. FTW

[Dr_Snooz]

Sounds like a bad booster to me.

[charliefowle03]

Sounds like a bad booster to me.

My question is that if i have such a significant vaccum loss in my motor that my power brakes dont operate , how is it that my car is is still able to start just fine and run ok with out any noticable fluctuations in the rpms?

Also, is the power steering system in any way connected to the braking system? Because i feel a slight increase in pressure in the turning the wheel, especially to the right? Or is this just the vaccum leak affecting the rpm which then leads to lower pressure in my P.S. system
as well?

[lostforawhile]

um from looking at those pics you need a brake booster lol

[charliefowle03]

um from looking at those pics you need a brake booster lol

Ha, and a vaccum. Now my question is to how do these typically fail. Just age? Does it nessecarily mean i need a new maaster cylinder as well" Or is it juast nice to replace this at the same time?

[Hazwan]

Seems like your master cylinder was leaking into the booster causing it to rust and leak. Pull your master and check if its wet too.

[lostforawhile]

best just to do both, you will need to reset the new booster pushrod length anyway, so you can do it out of the car, best one is to look for a new beck arnley brand on egay, they are closest to factory, factory electrical plug on the resevoir cap and everything

[charliefowle03]

There does appear to be wuite a bit of rust and some fluid leaking under the resivoir onto the booster. Where does the leak most commonly occur. I mean is it an o ring that just fails inside the cylinder or is there like a gasket that mounts up againgdt the booster between the master cylinder. I would love to salvage if possible. SO broke

[Dr_Snooz]

Pull out your manual and look at the blow up diagrams. It will show you how to overhaul the parts yourself. It looks like Rock Auto has a kit to rebuild the master cylinder. Of course, it's not appreciably cheaper than a new MC and if your old one has a lot of scoring on the internals, you'll be buying the new one anyway. You'll be hard pressed to find a rebuild kit for the booster.

Because we're talking about your brakes here, you might want to belly up and buy the new parts. If you're in a situation of having to choose between groceries and brakes, then it's time for a little junkyard surfing. Brake boosters don't go bad all that often, so your chances of finding a working one are good. If you decide to try a junkyard master cylinder, be sure to get the warranty and be prepared to take it back a dozen times before finding a good one. Then be prepared for the good one to poop out soon.

[lostforawhile]

Pull out your manual and look at the blow up diagrams. It will show you how to overhaul the parts yourself. It looks like Rock Auto has a kit to rebuild the master cylinder. Of course, it's not appreciably cheaper than a new MC and if your old one has a lot of scoring on the internals, you'll be buying the new one anyway. You'll be hard pressed to find a rebuild kit for the booster.

Because we're talking about your brakes here, you might want to belly up and buy the new parts. If you're in a situation of having to choose between groceries and brakes, then it's time for a little junkyard surfing. Brake boosters don't go bad all that often, so your chances of finding a working one are good. If you decide to try a junkyard master cylinder, be sure to get the warranty and be prepared to take it back a dozen times before finding a good one. Then be prepared for the good one to poop out soon.

his isnt even a good core, look at the picture of where the pushrod goes in, the rust has caused it to break, it's gone

[charliefowle03]

I so dont get when you guys all talk about theses 2g in the junkyard. All these junkyards up here rock 90's and up. your lucky to find some 86-up.But yeah your right snooz, I need to fork the cash out. or chances could be that im a goner. ha

[Hazwan]

Good news is anything from 80-00+ Hondas with the same diameter booster and master cylinder size would fit with minor alteration with your brake lines, some even fit without any modification at all.

Look for something with the same diameter with your old booster and same master cylinder size from a 90+ Honda.

[charliefowle03]

Good news is anything from 80-00+ Hondas with the same diameter booster and master cylinder size would fit with minor alteration with your brake lines, some even fit without any modification at all.

Look for something with the same diameter with your old booster and same master cylinder size from a 90+ Honda.

Great information Hazwan! I wentt ahead and forked out the cash fora new booster and master from advanced auto-bone. I figured now would be a good time to use my 50 off onlone ship coupon. SO expecting mid next week to arrive. as for now i have anothe picture thread on the way. Wait till u see this randomness...

[Hazwan]

Yay pics! Moar pics!

[charliefowle03]

Moaar to come....later this week hopefully. Parts are being shipped

[charliefowle03]

....I still am confused to how the motor still manages run as if there is no vaccum leak. I mean I can't tell the difference but I certainly can hear the hiss. Can anyone explain this. Because exactly what Haz was stating the diaphragm has been contaminated and eating up by the leaking brake fluid from the master cylinder. It has been leaking into the booster for who knows how long never really could tell if I was leaking fluid. I did some brake line repairs a couple months back and was leaking a huge amount (topped off every week). But now since being aware of the obvious situation, I do not see a noticeable amount of fluid leaking . I mean I'm sure there is but it must be so slow. Like this has pro ally been going on for years and finally with the weather change/ carb swap it just took the poop.

Why is my car not significantly taking a hit from the vaccum leak?

[Hazwan]

Maybe the leak is small enough not to be noticeable. I had hissing booster back then too and I can't notice a thing except for my poor gas mileage. Engine runs as smooth as it can get though.

Remember to post more pics :D

[charliefowle03]

Maybe the leak is small enough not to be noticeable. I had hissing booster back then too and I can't notice a thing except for my poor gas mileage. Engine runs as smooth as it can get though.

Remember to post more pics :D

I think your right Haz. i feel that it has been leaking for awhile now. Im glad it was slow rather than immediate though. I could have ended up in a different place than i am now :0 Like the trees!

[charliefowle03]

Hi guys.Update!

I will be posting tons of pics of this, really boring but critical repair. Crazy mad JDM pics coming your way...

[charliefowle03]

So these are the pictures i took as I went about the repair. All went well with the replacement. No fitment issues whatsoever. God it sure does feel good to have power brakes back again! The only issue now is that after bleeding the brakes, I was upset...and terrified, to discover that my front calipers are seized, or atleast partially seized up. I am getting serious vibration from the brake pedal as well as into the steering wheel. I notcied that they were going just after the next day of driving that the lug nuts were scorching hot and the wheels reeked of burning brake pads. Then caught onto the brake pedal having inconsistent distances when depressed. sometiimes it took very little to stop the car, others times all the way to the floor. Im going to tackle this job this weekend before i again take the risk of killing myslef of someone else on the road. Looking at some remanufactured calipers on ebay for roughly 50$ each. Not sure if both are seized up but going to just do both to be safe. Sureably in one is failing the other is soon to come.

Also picked up a Spectra radiator from O'rielys this morning due to the fact that mine has slowly been leaking and noticed my temp gauge was reading inconsitent as well Right now it reads way under o.t. Few days ago it was near overheating. I know where the leak is and i think the inaccurate reading are coming from this ahole allowing air to enter the system... any who this will be another thread most likely with fun pictures to support!!

I will do my best to post them in an orderly fashion as i went from start to finish.

[charliefowle03]

UNPACKAGING!!!

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[charliefowle03]

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[charliefowle03]

First step was to remove the lines from the M.S, then go about removing the two nuts that held it to the booster. I found it easiest to use a swivel adapter to get into the lower nut.


Yummm corrosion. Its obvious where the fluid was straveling....



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[charliefowle03]

A few more pictures of the damage that had been done from the leak. I assume the Master cylinder had been leaking for awhile and slowly running down into the booster. It was just a slow decaying process.

Some extra picys of the new webbyy :)


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[charliefowle03]

The brake pedal nut had to be adjuster slightly. It was not far back enough, so my brake light switch was left on a closed circuit. (tail lights were staying on when brake pedal wasnt engaged.) That required a little tweaking.

Also a note that agaiin the swivel adapter prved to be a blessing for getting the top nut of the booster bolt that was under the pedal inside the vehicle. There are a total of 4 and 2 of them took about 20 minutes haha

Again. rusty buckets


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[charliefowle03]

Mad JDM honda matching paint on that booster baby!

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[charliefowle03]

The resivoir did not come with the new cylinder, sop i just cleaned the original and swapped. Definately had some contimination going on.

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[charliefowle03]

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[Hazwan]

Nice kitty!

[2ndGenGuy]

Looking good man. You know, you can remove that whole Air Suction setup from the top of your intake manifold. Just cut the tube off of your exhaust manifold and crimp it shut with some pliers and then you can take all that off. :)

[charliefowle03]

i was curious to how i should approach that. i definately think its hidious i may try to find some kind plud to put in the exhaust some threaded piece. thank you for the tip brother. i wa pictures to get an idea.

[2ndGenGuy]

Or if you can cut a little round piece of metal the size of that bung, I bet an exhaust shop would weld the bung closed on the end of that tube for you for a couple of bucks.

[charliefowle03]

E=2ndGenGuy;1127887]Or if you can cut a little round piece of metal the size of that bung, I bet an exhaust shop would weld the bung closed on the end of that tube for you for a couple of bucks.[/QUOTE]

Thats pro ally a route I can go. Same thing pro ally for the egr too huh? I don't like seeing the hideous thing!

[Dr_Snooz]

Is that how they mounted the A/C compressors on the '83s? Far out.

Before spending a lot of money on new calipers, check your caliper guide pins. If they are not lubed properly or simply chewed up, they can cause a lot of problems. You can probably replace both with dealer parts for less than the cost of one new caliper.

[charliefowle03]

Is that how they mounted the A/C compressors on the '83s? Far out.

Before spending a lot of money on new calipers, check your caliper guide pins. If they are not lubed properly or simply chewed up, they can cause a lot of problems. You can probably replace both with dealer parts for less than the cost of one new caliper.

Wow! Thank you. This will give me something to do this evening. I have a feeling the rotor(s) are warped though for the duration that they seized up. Its really strange. Its like some days the brakes feel really touch other day normal. I'm getting the vibration today in the brake pedal and the steering wheel. I think worst case scenario I will replace calipers and rotors. But at leat the rotors I feel are goners.

This doesn't feel like coincidence. After replacing the m.s. and b.b I have been getting these issues? Any reason why?

[Hazwan]

Check the booster pushrod make sure it's not actually pressing the brake when it's not. Heres how I check mine since mine isn't stock and factory measurement mean nothing to me: I would jack the front or rear wheel and see if it's dragging then I would undo the pushrod nut a few turns and check the wheels again.

[2ndGenGuy]

Yeah Hazwan is right there, but you could also have gotten one of the calipers stuck when you were doing the bleeding. Everything always seems to work great until you dislodge some crap that gets the caliper stuck. But also like Snooz said people do brake jobs and often neglect to clean and lube the slider pins or any other moving parts.

[lostforawhile]

you need to adjust the free play properly with a new booster, or the brakes will gradually start to lock over time

[charliefowle03]

you need to adjust the free play properly with a new booster, or the brakes will gradually start to lock over time

Wow OK. I did have to extend the bolt to get the brake light switch to be disengaged (brake light off) should I just adjust the but on the booster by the pedal back off? How do you mean it starts to lock up after a while?

[lostforawhile]

Wow OK. I did have to extend the bolt to get the brake light switch to be disengaged (brake light off) should I just adjust the but on the booster by the pedal back off? How do you mean it starts to lock up after a while?

this has nothing to do with the brake light switch, thats a separate adjustment, if there isnt enough free play between the pedal arm and the booster the booster will never fully release and over time will apply gradually more pressure to the master cylinder, this is a common issue when changing boosters

[lostforawhile]

PART 7 - Adjusting the Master Cylinder pushrod (http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mastercylinderreplace/adjustment.html)

[charliefowle03]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxOHza-lMOs&feature=c4-overview&list=UUrKER1qCosSFByQMEb16lfA

[charliefowle03]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lex45_3Qzg&feature=c4-overview&list=UUrKER1qCosSFByQMEb16lfA

[Hazwan]

Pushrod clearance look fine to me but you said passenger side caliper is fine so its probably your caliper or the brake hose on the driver's side. How old are they? I'd replace them all if they're hardened up. As for the caliper You can either try rebuilding them or get a reman unit.

I had the same issue with seized caliper that it actually smoking. Replacing the O-ring on the piston did the trick. I'd fix that asap before it would start ruining everything else from the heat! It can't be good for your bearing grease thats for sure

[Dr_Snooz]

Having your throttle cable kinked like that will make the throttle sticky. That's probably your idle issue. If you don't get it fixed, however, it could cause a crash.

The only way to diagnose your brakes is to pull the wheel and see what's going on.

[charliefowle03]

Having your throttle cable kinked like that will make the throttle sticky. That's probably your idle issue. If you don't get it fixed, however, it could cause a crash.

The only way to diagnose your brakes is to pull the wheel and see what's going on.

It is nessecarily restricting the cable from retracting but when I'm at 65mph and I let off the gas it will actually downshift and the Rpms will rise. About 250rpm. But I will definitely read the PDF. Thank you

As for the brakes its becoming intermittent. Once warmed up the sensitivity varies. The vibrations will come in after 20 minutes of driving. Then I feel theb brakes locking up. It warped the driver side rotor and brake Lin appears to be fine. Um going to order some new calipers and rotors this week.

[charliefowle03]

Ordered new Beck/Arnley Calipers, Beck/Arnley Rotors,and som eeconomy pads from RockAuto.com today....$101 shipped. used a 5% off coupon in the appearance thread on the home page...Noice. more pics to come...3-4 business days from now

[charliefowle03]

still waiting on the delivery.. Since its a holiday, most likely will get the goods tomorrow. Moar to come!!