Any Oval dirt track tips?

[Bud_1080]

Hey! New to the site and and just started racing a 89 accord. In the process of swapping out the engine as I spun a main first time out. Has anyone on here experimented with baffling the oil pan or running an accumulator?

[2ndGenGuy]

Everybody who takes them out on the track spins a bearing. Same thing happened to us during a 24 Hours of Lemons race. We ran thicker oil in the second engine (20-50) and overfilled it about a quart. Still got an oil light flicker in a couple corners, but it held up for 8 solid hours of racing!

We are going to get an Accusump, or something similar for our next race, but that probably won't be until December. I think Lostforawhile has baffled his oil pan, but I don't think it's ever been track tested.

I'm also curious what will work best... Let us know what you find out! When is your next race?

[lostforawhile]

youll have to search for the link but there is a company that still makes the pan baffle and the crank scraper, I would run the accusump for sure as they tend to uncover the oil pickup during hard turns, mainly left, a properly setup accusump should solve this

[lostforawhile]

I found the link but it doesnt show the A20 anymore, he says if you dont see your engine,just ask, he did make them, so he can probably still make them Hond-Acura (http://www.crank-scrapers.com/Honda-Acura_B-SERIES.html)

[Bud_1080]

Thanks guys.
I also found that link and have already emailed about the baffles and crank scrapers. But for now I've fabbed my own crude baffle and over filled by a quart. Just finished putting the engine back in tonight and fired right up. Races are this weekend. I'd like to run a accumulator but its a stock mini class so I'm not sure how that would fly. I might throw the idea out and see what they say or paint it flat black and stuff it under the intake against the block ;)

[Bud_1080]

The father In-law also has a 86 lude that he cooked last races. He didn't wait to baffle the pan and is only running the slightly higher oil level so we will know if it was crude baffles or the extra oil that makes it longer. Lol.

[Bud_1080]

Also what else should I expect to fail on this when running so hard? I've already removed the power steering and a/c compressor. The axle seals at the differential seem to be leaking bad but for a free car turned racer I can keep adding oil until the car at least proves its worth.

[Bud_1080]

Got ahold of Kevin @ crank-scrapers.com and theA-series baffles are $39. Crank scraper is $69 plus $100 for the Teflon and he's willing to modify the windage tray with a mesh to promote the oil to drain rather than bouncing off back into the crank.
Be putting a order in soon

[2ndGenGuy]

Hmm that's tempting. $39 doesn't seem too bad for a baffle. Is that like a pre-cut piece that you weld into the pan? With a trap door or anything?

Honestly, if you can keep the engine from spinning a bearing, I don't think there's much else to fail. The other weak point, as with all Hondas in race conditions, is the head gasket.

Also found some interesting ideas on the DIY accumulator here: Anybody know how to do a cheap homebuilt accusump?: Grassroots Motorsports forum: Grassroots Motorsports Magazine (http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/anybody-know-how-to-do-a-cheap-homebuilt-accusump/32723/page1/)

I'm still trying to figure out if the gravity feed accumulators are helpful or not. Seems like it would be too easy to build one. Not sure if there's an advantage to keeping it under air pressure.

I would hope your organization wouldn't care about the accumulator in there. It's not going to give you any performance advantage or anything, it's just saving your engine from destruction.

[Bud_1080]

It's a precut baffle with a trap door and tabs to tack weld it to your pan. I think the home built accumulator will work just not nearly as good as the piston type size for size. I agree that an accumulator shouldn't be a problem but you know how some people will complain about anything if they arnt winning.

[2oodoor]

The father In-law also has a 86 lude that he cooked last races. He didn't wait to baffle the pan and is only running the slightly higher oil level so we will know if it was crude baffles or the extra oil that makes it longer. Lol.
Thats what they do here, those A20 preludes have been doing really well in that class, escorts do well too because you can really sneak in performance on that mazda z20 dohc. A teflon additive wouldnt hurt either for starving moments. Let us know how you do with the car regardless :)

[Bud_1080]

Made it through the day with the "new" engine. Ran strong with the exception of a blown ball joint.
http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w551/bud_1080/image_zps80e42285.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/bud_1080/media/image_zps80e42285.jpg.html)

[2ndGenGuy]

Ah bummer about the ball joint, but glad to hear the engine ran strong! I like the Ricky Bobby theme you've got going on there! I think we need more pics of your race car! :)

[lostforawhile]

chedda has something cooking on those rear ball joints and Im sure i've seen adjustable rears that are made, I dont see an issue on the accumulators with the rules, I've never heard of a class that wont allow them, they dont add any kind of performance, just keep your engine oiled, i wouldnt go with a gravity feed accumulator, you dont know how well it will function under g force, a pressure accumulator forces the oil into the system immediately. I would invest in the accusump and the proper bracket to prevent the tube from being crushed, even if you trash the car it can always go in the next car

[Vanilla Sky]

Good to see I'm not the only one linking to GRM here :D

Welcome to the Racing board. You've pretty much got it handled with the baffle, thicker oil, and overfill.

Those axle seals are like $15 for both sides. About half an hour for each side. Once you get good at axles on these cars, they are very quick to do. On a daily driven car, I'd be more concerned with them, but if you blow a CV joint, you might as well replace at least the seal on that side.

Lost, the local dirt track won't allow an Accusump, even though there is no performance advantage. Stupid rules are stupid.

[Bud_1080]

So after fixing the ball joint yesterday racing went well..... Untill about 8th lap in the main heat.

Sounds like a broken piston. Valve train looks ok, plenty of oil coming out the front engine seal. Enging temp stayed fine all day.
What's a good weight of oil to be running in these engines under such abuse?

[Bud_1080]

Here's a few more shots of the car.

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w551/bud_1080/image_zps8a0caf11.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/bud_1080/media/image_zps8a0caf11.jpg.html)

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w551/bud_1080/image_zps2143eed9.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/bud_1080/media/image_zps2143eed9.jpg.html)

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w551/bud_1080/image_zps9412fa88.jpg (http://s1329.photobucket.com/user/bud_1080/media/image_zps9412fa88.jpg.html)

[Vanilla Sky]

Oil viscosity should be determined using data from an oil temp gauge. If you start running into high oil temps, go up in viscosity. What are you running right now?

[Bud_1080]

5w40 full synthetic.

[Vanilla Sky]

Shell Rotella T6? Not a bad choice. Are you freshening up your engines, or just using up the junkyard's supply of A20s? I'm more inclined to think you're having issues with old, worn out engines rather than your oil.

[Bud_1080]

Yup T6.
First engine was in the car so I never looked at anything. Second engine I did roll the bearings out. Ill probably throw this crank into the old block with a set of bearings. All depends how it looks when I tear it out.
It's hard to justify building a engine for how cheap we've been getting them but I think ill start building up a spare properly and see how that lasts.
Should a person be concerned with the max rpm it runs at? I'm touching the rev limiter at the end of each straight away for 5-15 seconds

[Vanilla Sky]

One of the racers here, rjudgey, is making a claimed 200BHP with a ported head, some valve train upgrades, and a set of Weber DCOEs bored out to 45mm. He leaves his bottom end pretty much stock, save for using new Sealed Power OEM-equivalent pistons. If memory serves me well, he lets his engines run up to 7200 RPM. The valve springs should make it through a protest teardown if you ever run into it, and of course all of your basic machine work that makes more power should make it under the radar.

[apache07x]

I ran different motors when I was circle track racing but it was a 4 cyl and I ran Valvoline VR 50 Racing Oil. It's around $8 a quart but I never had any oil related problems. Always held good oil pressure which is important when your running 8300 RPM although your probably not turning that hard good oil pressure is a must. I always tried to have around 7 pounds per 1000 RPMs. I always had a windage tray and the pickup modified to make sure it stayed in the oil when your going through the turns. Usually ran an extra quart or so of oil too to make sure the motor wasn't starving for oil. On a side note I'm running VR 50 and Lucas in my street driven A20 sedan and I haven't had any problems with it. A little thick maybe but the wrist pins don't chatter when I fire it up anymore.

[2ndGenGuy]

Our second engine at Lemons, we ran 20W-50 cheapo oil. And that one actually lasted us and is doing well even with a 260,000 mile bottom end.

[Vanilla Sky]

Thanks for chiming in, guys. My car doesn't ever see sustained high speed corners, not like you'd see on a track anyway. Cone chasing is a good deal easier on your car than hammering on it at the track.

[captain_steve]

I am sort of new here as well. I race and 89 Accord here in florida. The original motor lasted the first night before it went. Still determining the cause. Just received a reman A20A1 from Jasper Engines. I have a back-up car, but figured the old tired motors, that I believe may be the 2nd motor in either car, just won't last under the abuse. Going to get everything switched over and will let you know how it goes with a brand new motor.

[2ndGenGuy]

I am sort of new here as well. I race and 89 Accord here in florida. The original motor lasted the first night before it went. Still determining the cause. Just received a reman A20A1 from Jasper Engines. I have a back-up car, but figured the old tired motors, that I believe may be the 2nd motor in either car, just won't last under the abuse. Going to get everything switched over and will let you know how it goes with a brand new motor.

Oh wow! Welcome to the site! Thanks for chiming in and letting us know what you find out. I hope that it is simply a case of the motors being tired. You are brave soul for betting a new motor on it! When is your next race? Got any pictures of your car? It sounds like you need to start a thread about your car. :)

[Bud_1080]

I'm hoping to tear my engine down tomorrow and get a better idea of what failed. I have another engine from the auto wrecker that ill probably toss in as we are racing next weekend.

[Oldblueaccord]

5w40 full synthetic.

Well i can add this my 2011 Challenger runs that oil and the oil temps easily run 225 to 240. Dunno anything about the brand.

I would look into a racing oil like Valvoline 20w 50.

Also if you suspect the temps ars high try insulating the header pipe where it runs on the oil pan. Thats one small thing i never liked about Hondas is the pipes right on the oil pan.

[2oodoor]

Well i can add this my 2011 Challenger runs that oil and the oil temps easily run 225 to 240. Dunno anything about the brand.

I would look into a racing oil like Valvoline 20w 50.

Also if you suspect the temps ars high try insulating the header pipe where it runs on the oil pan. Thats one small thing i never liked about Hondas is the pipes right on the oil pan.
Exactly what I was thinking, also those used motors may have plenty of life in them but if I were racing one I would surely replace the rubber seals for the oil pump. The that seals the two halves of the pump can get brittle and have cracks which would cause intermitant pressure loss.
Im not sure the part number but there is a longer oil filter that can be used to increase capacity and give a tiny bit of cool down.

[apache07x]

Oil cooler is a must on any race car

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

[Oldblueaccord]

There was an older thread with the same topic problem. I felt that the race rotation was important. I would guess most fwd cars the oil sumps on the driver side so racing clockwise would be best.

Just a best guess.

[accordracer39]

I just started racing an 86 LXI (fuel injected) accord at the local dirt track. Actually saturday was the the first time I raced it and it held up good. Did crack the radiator in my heat race when I hit a car that spun out in the middle of the track though (was able to get it to hold for the main though). Gonna need to replace that, along with the hood, fenders, core support, etc. But I do have a parts car so should be fine.

What I want to know is how people can adjust the camber on these things. My car just wants to eat up tires on the passenger front and push up in the corners. We kind of solved this by running like 40 psi in the passenger front tire and like 15 psi in the driver front. But a more permanent solution would be preferred.

Here is the picture of the car, yeah I know it needs paint but $400 for a turn key race car is pretty dang good :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a29/bigmace0309/Screenshot_2013-08-19-07-40-33_zpsd48c2f73.png (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/bigmace0309/media/Screenshot_2013-08-19-07-40-33_zpsd48c2f73.png.html)

[accordracer39]

double post sorrry

[apache07x]

I just started racing an 86 LXI (fuel injected) accord at the local dirt track. Actually saturday was the the first time I raced it and it held up good. Did crack the radiator in my heat race when I hit a car that spun out in the middle of the track though (was able to get it to hold for the main though). Gonna need to replace that, along with the hood, fenders, core support, etc. But I do have a parts car so should be fine.

What I want to know is how people can adjust the camber on these things. My car just wants to eat up tires on the passenger front and push up in the corners. We kind of solved this by running like 40 psi in the passenger front tire and like 15 psi in the driver front. But a more permanent solution would be preferred.

Here is the picture of the car, yeah I know it needs paint but $400 for a turn key race car is pretty dang good :)
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a29/bigmace0309/Screenshot_2013-08-19-07-40-33_zpsd48c2f73.png (http://s8.photobucket.com/user/bigmace0309/media/Screenshot_2013-08-19-07-40-33_zpsd48c2f73.png.html)

2g prelude upper control arms or there is at least one kit I know of to adjust camber that's what I have on mine. I don't remember the place off hand but their own eBay too. Send me a pm if you're interested in that and I'll shoot you their website

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 4

[accordracer39]

2g prelude upper control arms or there is at least one kit I know of to adjust camber that's what I have on mine. I don't remember the place off hand but their own eBay too. Send me a pm if you're interested in that and I'll shoot you their website

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 4

Thanks, I got my hands on some 3rd gen prelude arms for free. I put the passenger side arm on and I got a little camber for the last race but not much. I have taken them off and am in the process of drilling out the slots to enlarge them so I can get some more. Probably not the safest thing for a street car but being a race car I will probably look at welding everything up once I find a good position for them.

Thanks!

[Vanilla Sky]

Slotting the 3rd gen Prelude arms is perfectly fine, as long as the bolt clamps on fine. Lots of guys have been using them on their daily drivers for many years without any issues.

[captain_steve]

The new motor is running good. I got rid of all the vacuum mess and black box when we installed the new motor and with really no adjustment it runs perfect. Still breaking it in. It has three races on it now. The neons kick butt, but I am beating preludes and running in the top ten every week. It just kind of depends where you start. We have a few guys running locked differentials, but they are outlawing them for next season which should even things up a bit.

I want to thank 3geez because I learned more about this car and basic mods I could do to keep it stock, but add performance. Thanks to everyone on the site!

Here is a pic of the car as requested.

[Vanilla Sky]

Neons and Ecotec Cavaliers are the fast cars up here at Putnam Raceway. Are you having to upshift at the end of your straights, or can you hold the gear until the corner? Changing around your transmission gearing might help against the quicker cars, especially if you can deal with a shorter gear set.

[2ndGenGuy]

That is a good lookin' race car! I wish we could do bumpers like that in Lemons, but we're not allowed to modify any of the crash structure. :(

[captain_steve]

Thanks for the compliment. Trust me, those bumpers are nice. Some guys run the stock bumpers, but after a few weeks the nose comes off and some extra beef is added. My dad raced full size GM cars and they ran similar bumpers, that is where I got the idea.

The track is a 1/4 mile D shaped oval with 8 degrees of banking in the corners. I'm still working on the set up to get off the corners better. I catch a lot of competitors going into the corners. I run the car in
2nd gear. I'm right on the edge gear wise at the end of the straightaway. I have the carb'd A20 and everyone else has a rev limiter so I can run harder into the corner. Everyweek get's better. No matter what, it's a blast.

I've learned so much on this website and the car has some advantages the others don't I believe. Just working on the handling and set up. I'll take any suggestions. I've search the internet extensively on fwd set ups and read a lot of different stuff. Just slowing going to try stuff till this season is over and then go at it hard next season. In the meantime, just learning and having fun. Proud to drive a Honda 3gee!

[Vanilla Sky]

Can you add ballast? Minimum weight limits in the class?

[captain_steve]

You can add ballast. Minimum weight is 2,000 lbs since the engine is 2.0L or close to that. With me in the car, weight is around 2,400 lbs. No more than 56% left side weight. Was at 54% last time on the scales. Need to get the car re-weighed because I got a set of lowering springs in the car now. Trying to lighten it up more, but you can only gut the driver's side doors for the roll bars. Just picked up a rear sway off a '92 vigor. I've been reading about putting a rear sway bar on, and unhooking the front sway bar all together. Was also going to mess with rear toe at practice and see how the car reacts.

[Vanilla Sky]

So, you're thinking about making your car dynamically unstable? Of course, no one would ever try something like that for a road-going car, but it can really help make the car rotate.

Do you have a link to your rule book? I'm particularly good at finding loopholes.

[captain_steve]

Not doing anything drastic. Just reading and trying to do my homework. Not running off and changing the whole car.

Here is the link to our rules. Keep in mind the locked differential rule is going away next year. Can't run one. Thanks in advance.

Mini Stock 2013 | Showtime Speedway Pinellas Park (http://showtimespeedway.us/rules/mini-stock/)

Race on Saturuday night. Started 18th and finished 9th out of 20 cars. Was up to 7th at one point. Car is getting better every week.

[Vanilla Sky]

Well, there's not a lot to change, really. A few things I did catch were these little bits:


They care about engine size, so you can technically install a CRV B20 with no VTEC and be within the rules
They leave no provision for the car's front end camber to be changed. Crash washers don't help with the way the front end is designed. You can shim the back, though.
Updating and back dating parts is something that may or may not get you caught. I'd give it a shot.
What tire size are you using? I'd fit the widest 60 series tire I could manage on a set of stock 13" steelies.
Sway bars aren't mentioned, so I would concentrate on bars for suspension changes since you can't change springs.


That's what I came away with, anyway.

[Vanilla Sky]

Oh, I also noticed that the transmission ratios can be changed based on the lack of a rule against it. Just no changing out for "racing parts".

[captain_steve]

Can you expound more on the transmission ratio. I run the car in 2nd now and rev to about 6500 +/- rpm with the new motor. I'm kind of afraid to go much more than that. I'd love to lower the rpm's by a bit. Not much to keep the engine wound up, but kind of like if you had a 2-1/2 gear, if that makes sense. I know I need to search, but I'll take and hints or answers you can give me.

I do have camber in the car. I got a bunch of the 2nd gen preludes control arms, but slotted the holes larger the other way to get camber. I just got a rear sway bar from a '92 vigor that I am going to put on the car this week or next. Don't race for another 3 weeks. I was planning on figuring how to build in adjustment to the bars.

[Vanilla Sky]

Don't worry about adding adjustment to the bars. By the time you've screwed with them, you've found another dozen in the junkyard that will work just fine.

Here is the list of gear ratios (http://www.3geez.com/forum/frequently-asked-questions/35970-5-speed-transmission-codes-ratios.html) and which transmissions you can find them in. There are a bunch more threads on the topic, but no sense going through the rebuild threads when you can't make your gear ratios any better for your track.