A20 oil cooler?

[Bud_1080]

Did the A20 ever come with a oil to water cooler? I'm looking for an easy way to add oil cooling to racer.

[cygnus x-1]

I don't think so; not from the factory anyway. *Possibly* a dealer installed option in warmer climates.

Even with racing use it generally isn't needed unless it's really hot or the cooling system is compromised somehow.


C|

[RAZR]

Its not like its the hard to plump an oil cooler. Get and oil filter sandwich plate an lines and and oil cooler boom done.

[Bud_1080]

Its not like its the hard to plump an oil cooler. Get and oil filter sandwich plate an lines and and oil cooler boom done.
You are correct however I don't want to restrict my oil system at all by adding long lengths of hose and a cooler. The engine is already being abused. Plus it's a stock class and that would technically be adding aftermarket parts. And the up side to oil to water cooler is once your warmed up you can't over cool the oil.
Would the sandwich cooler from a B series fit the a series? If they use the same filter I would imagine it could be adapted.

[Bud_1080]

Even with racing use it generally isn't needed unless it's really hot or the cooling system is compromised somehow.

C|

My coolant temperate is staying withing good limits during the race but the oil is getting way hotter than I'd like. After a good hard race the oil pressure is pretty low at an idle.

[Jafir]

Would the sandwich cooler from a B series fit the a series? If they use the same filter I would imagine it could be adapted.

They use the same filter, but the problem is that on the B series without an oil cooler, the filter seals right up against the block. When they had the cooler, the seal is a round ring about the same size as the oil filter seal. Basically the cooler is just an add-on between the filter and block. On the A series, the filter housing connects to the block with some goofy looking figure-8 plus-some seal. You MIGHT be able to stack the integra GS-R style oil cooler on TOP of the Accord filter plate, but how much room would there be for the filter?

[Bud_1080]

Ill have a look and see how much room there is. I have access to a lathe and mill at work so I can modify as neccasary if I can find a cooler

[Bud_1080]

Looks like there is tons of room to add a cooler sandwich under the filter.

[Oldblueaccord]

Could try thd radiator cooler for the automatic trans. But there would be plumbing involved.

[lostforawhile]

Could try thd radiator cooler for the automatic trans. But there would be plumbing involved.

the passages are way too small for engine oil, you need a proper cooler with a remote filter adapter, i say this because you can run a larger filter with a remote setup. You wont need a thermostat in your cooler for a race setup, on a street car you would have to worry about over cooling, an engine running full out isnt going to overcool. with a race setup you just need to make sure the oil is warmed up good before your run is all. I think you can run -8 but on a race car you might want to run -10 lines to prevent pressure drop, you can also remove the pressure relief valve spring very easily and shim it to increase pressure. you just remove the oil filter base adapter, it's a few bolts, you will need a new gasket for it, available from Honda, cheap, order a few, i would have replaced that right away anyway as it directly under pump pressure. replace the pump if it's old, they are still made by Melling, I would have no issue putting a melling pump on any race car

[Oldblueaccord]

the passages are way too small for engine oil, you need a proper cooler with a remote filter adapter, i say this because you can run a larger filter with a remote setup. You wont need a thermostat in your cooler for a race setup, on a street car you would have to worry about over cooling, an engine running full out isnt going to overcool. with a race setup you just need to make sure the oil is warmed up good before your run is all. I think you can run -8 but on a race car you might want to run -10 lines to prevent pressure drop, you can also remove the pressure relief valve spring very easily and shim it to increase pressure. you just remove the oil filter base adapter, it's a few bolts, you will need a new gasket for it, available from Honda, cheap, order a few, i would have replaced that right away anyway as it directly under pump pressure. replace the pump if it's old, they are still made by Melling, I would have no issue putting a melling pump on any race car

Cant add after market parts in his class. 3rd time you have been told that.

Disagree with the sizing its good enough for auto trans fluid good enough for engine oil. Aftermarket oil cooler same sizes.

[Jafir]

The previous engine type, in the 83 and older accords, with the big fat oil filter on the radiator side of the engine, had an oil cooler on some models that sat next to the radiator. No oil to coolant, but it would be OEM. I think it hooked into some ports on the block or something.

[lostforawhile]

Cant add after market parts in his class. 3rd time you have been told that.

Disagree with the sizing its good enough for auto trans fluid good enough for engine oil. Aftermarket oil cooler same sizes.

What aftermarket. Parts? The oil pump is considered a stock replacement, just cheap insurannce. Against an older pump, as far as the tranny cooler, they are not designed to flow the high volume of oil needed for the engine, that's been tried before,way too much pressure drop

[cygnus x-1]

My coolant temperate is staying withing good limits during the race but the oil is getting way hotter than I'd like. After a good hard race the oil pressure is pretty low at an idle.


How low? Have you tried a higher oil viscosity? Oil pressure at idle doesn't much matter as long as it's at least a few PSI. More important is what the pressure is at speed.


Shimming the pressure relief valve will only change the pressure relief point, not the running pressure. The running pressure is controlled by engine speed, pump displacement, oil viscosity, and overall system restriction level (bearing tolerances and such). To increase oil pressure everywhere you need to do one of the following:

- increase engine speed (or pump speed relative to the engine). Probably not feasible to do.
- increase pump displacement. There are high volume pumps available for the A20 so that may be an option. Technically it's aftermarket but how would anyone know?
- increase oil viscosity. I've run 20W-50 before. It's no good for a daily driver unless you live in Death Valley, but for racing it's an option.


C|

[Bud_1080]

I'm probably gonna look into a high flow pump and run a heavier oil. I'd still like to do a cooler as well if I can hash something together that appears stock

[mperaza]

- increase oil viscosity. I've run 20W-50 before. It's no good for a daily driver unless you live in Death Valley, but for racing it's an option.

C|

Want to learn on this: In my town, the cheapest oil is 20W50 and therefore almost everybody buy it. My car came with the same however I do prefer a lower viscosity. I was thinking on using 10W30 as the manual recommends.
Why did you say so? Is it a bad viscosity due to frequent idling and lower engine speeds?

[Oldblueaccord]

Want to learn on this: In my town, the cheapest oil is 20W50 and therefore almost everybody buy it. My car came with the same however I do prefer a lower viscosity. I was thinking on using 10W30 as the manual recommends.
Why did you say so? Is it a bad viscosity due to frequent idling and lower engine speeds?

I think in your area of the world 20w50 is fine for hot temps.

I would let the car run a minute or two when started from cold to get the oil up to temp.

I do that with all the cars I own anyway.

[mperaza]

I think in your area of the world 20w50 is fine for hot temps.

I would let the car run a minute or two when started from cold to get the oil up to temp.

I do that with all the cars I own anyway.

That's a good advise! I do that too and also before turning off the car.

:)

[lostforawhile]

How low? Have you tried a higher oil viscosity? Oil pressure at idle doesn't much matter as long as it's at least a few PSI. More important is what the pressure is at speed.


Shimming the pressure relief valve will only change the pressure relief point, not the running pressure. The running pressure is controlled by engine speed, pump displacement, oil viscosity, and overall system restriction level (bearing tolerances and such). To increase oil pressure everywhere you need to do one of the following:

- increase engine speed (or pump speed relative to the engine). Probably not feasible to do.
- increase pump displacement. There are high volume pumps available for the A20 so that may be an option. Technically it's aftermarket but how would anyone know?
- increase oil viscosity. I've run 20W-50 before. It's no good for a daily driver unless you live in Death Valley, but for racing it's an option.


C|
where are these high volume pumps? I havent seen one yet, i would like to run one with the oil lines in my setup

[lostforawhile]

i found the old link and apparently importperformanceparts.net no longer exists

[lostforawhile]

Something to consider with a high volumme pump and a small capacity oil pan, the pump running at constant high rpm,can suck the pan dry,before the Oil has a chance to drain back to the pan, a lot can collectt in the valve cover,which is gravity return, if yyou run a high volume pump,you might consider modifyiing the pan for capacity

[cygnus x-1]

Want to learn on this: In my town, the cheapest oil is 20W50 and therefore almost everybody buy it. My car came with the same however I do prefer a lower viscosity. I was thinking on using 10W30 as the manual recommends.
Why did you say so? Is it a bad viscosity due to frequent idling and lower engine speeds?

You must live in a hot climate then. I'm in the USA near Chicago so the temperature varies pretty widely. 20W-50 is ok during the hot part of the summer but when it's cooler the engine is harder to start due to the thicker oil. It also creates more drag which can affect the fuel mileage a tiny bit.



where are these high volume pumps? I havent seen one yet, i would like to run one with the oil lines in my setup

This is the part number: OPH15L-HV



i found the old link and apparently importperformanceparts.net no longer exists

Seems to work for me. Where is this old link? If it's bad I'll fix it.



Something to consider with a high volumme pump and a small capacity oil pan, the pump running at constant high rpm,can suck the pan dry,before the Oil has a chance to drain back to the pan, a lot can collectt in the valve cover,which is gravity return, if yyou run a high volume pump,you might consider modifyiing the pan for capacity

I've never had any issues with the HV pump on mine, although that would be something to consider for a small pan or if you do autocrossing or other such racing. I did once have the oil light blip on for just a second after slamming on the brakes and whipping into a sharp corner.


C|

[mperaza]

You must live in a hot climate then. I'm in the USA near Chicago so the temperature varies pretty widely. 20W-50 is ok during the hot part of the summer but when it's cooler the engine is harder to start due to the thicker oil. It also creates more drag which can affect the fuel mileage a tiny bit.

C|

Actual temp here is always between 70 F as the minimum and 91 F as the highest. Thanks for clarifying Cygnus!

[lostforawhile]

You must live in a hot climate then. I'm in the USA near Chicago so the temperature varies pretty widely. 20W-50 is ok during the hot part of the summer but when it's cooler the engine is harder to start due to the thicker oil. It also creates more drag which can affect the fuel mileage a tiny bit.




This is the part number: OPH15L-HV




Seems to work for me. Where is this old link? If it's bad I'll fix it.




I've never had any issues with the HV pump on mine, although that would be something to consider for a small pan or if you do autocrossing or other such racing. I did once have the oil light blip on for just a second after slamming on the brakes and whipping into a sharp corner.


C|it was in your old thread about increasing oil pressure in the A20, none of the links to them were working yesterday, not just yours, maby a temporary glitch

[lostforawhile]

not working, if it's a toga HV pump, you got lucky and got a good one, there are a lot of complaints online about them being bad out of the box and causing engines to be destroyed Import Performance Parts - Import Performance Engine & Racing Parts (http://www.importperformanceparts.net)

[cygnus x-1]

not working, if it's a toga HV pump, you got lucky and got a good one, there are a lot of complaints online about them being bad out of the box and causing engines to be destroyed Import Performance Parts - Import Performance Engine & Racing Parts (http://www.importperformanceparts.net)


I see a lot of the typical internet speculation and not much actual data. Except for one site where they put one on a Ford and didn't get any increase in oil pressure. So, I'm not going to draw any conclusions beyond "buyer beware", which is pretty much the case any time you start using "performance" parts. They might be ok, or they might be bunk. I really don't know. All I know is that my particular pump seems to work ok, although I didn't measure the oil pressure before and after installation so I can't say that it actually is any different than a stock pump. I can only go by the mfgr's stated claims.


C|

[lostforawhile]

I see a lot of the typical internet speculation and not much actual data. Except for one site where they put one on a Ford and didn't get any increase in oil pressure. So, I'm not going to draw any conclusions beyond "buyer beware", which is pretty much the case any time you start using "performance" parts. They might be ok, or they might be bunk. I really don't know. All I know is that my particular pump seems to work ok, although I didn't measure the oil pressure before and after installation so I can't say that it actually is any different than a stock pump. I can only go by the mfgr's stated claims.


C|there seem to be a lot of complaints on the Ford probe forum about very little idle pressure with the pumps, and the guys complaining had used the pumps for some serious builds, the issue seemed to be about rotor to case tolerance

[Dr_Snooz]

How low? Have you tried a higher oil viscosity? Oil pressure at idle doesn't much matter as long as it's at least a few PSI.

x2. Oil pressure as low as 14 psi is within spec.

[niles]

So anyone here using an oil cooler plumbed from the oil filter as described above? I want to do this next summer along with an A/T cooler.