86 accord wont rev up?

[massiveheadake86]

I have a 86 accord hatch 2.0 5 speed trans

I have done the Weber conversion on it with a 32/36 Weber w/ adapter plate. The car starts right up no problem but as soon as i got to rev the motor it backfires thew the carb and stalls out. I am using a Hitachi distributor. Anyone have any idea's? I have installed a brand new timing belt and confirmed timing is on or at-least close. Its like spark will not advance.

[2oodoor]

Spitting thru carb is fuel starvation usually, even on EFI if it spits out the throttle body.
Does the throttle move freely? With the car off can you see gas squirting inside the carb when you operate the tbrottle?

[Jafir]

Does it still have a cat? Perhaps it's plugged up?

[massiveheadake86]

When the car is off I can move the throttle and I can see gas being sent into the motor so I know the carb is working fine. The throttle moves freely. A plugged up cat is very unlike I have run it with the exhaust off and it still will not rev up. The car will start and idle good when the distributor is advanced all the way. I'm also getting a lot of back pressure out of the tail pipe. Im not sure what to check next. The distributor only fits in one way.

[2oodoor]

Well seeing gas only confirms one circuit of fuel flow thru the carb. So it does idle so heres two circuits , now main jets, float level, air correctors and emulsion tubes. Sptting back sounds lke float is stuck or not letting bowl fill up. Did you plug off the coolant port under the carb on the base flange?
What of these same problems existed before the carb swap, timing belt etc?

[massiveheadake86]

Yes I have plugged off the coolant port you are talking about under the carb! I did the carb swap because I was having these same problems. I just did the timing belt and confirmed the timing is on. Then the distributor only fits on one way. The rotor points to #1 when at tdc. I have also disconnected the exhaust and tried to run it checking for plugged cat. It makes no difference

[Jafir]

I've seen seized mechanical advances in 3G accord distributors. Grab the rotor and give it a twist. Does it move? If so does it spring back freely?

[massiveheadake86]

I have checked the vacuum advance on my distributor and even swapped it out with a known good one. makes no difference!

[massiveheadake86]

can anyone tell me is it normal to have about 1/4" of slop in the distributor? Like turning the rotor by hand back and forth a few times?

[2oodoor]

can anyone tell me is it normal to have about 1/4" of slop in the distributor? Like turning the rotor by hand back and forth a few times?

1/4 " is a bit much yeah

[Jafir]

I have checked the vacuum advance on my distributor and even swapped it out with a known good one. makes no difference!

Mechanical (centrifugal) advance, not vacuum. Twist the rotor.

[massiveheadake86]

Jafir I'm not sure what you mean please ex-plane

[Jafir]

Vacuum advance's main purpose is to improve fuel economy under low load conditions. When cruising down the highway or coasting downhill or whatever is when vacuum is the highest, and load on the engine is lowest, so the vacuum advance gives more advance to improve economy with little risk of pinging. The honda system is a little more complicated on the last cars with vacuum advance because they have multiple stages and ported vacuum switches, etc etc... but it still doesn't provide MUCH of the advance used during normal driving.

The mechanical advance is what is used to advance the timing as the engine RPM goes up. There are weights and springs in the bottom of the distributor that as the engine spins faster the weights sling out, and the advance increases. If the springs are broken or the weights seized up, the timing will never advance or retard, or the timing will advance fully at idle, so when you timing it with a light, there is no advance left. The easiest way to check that is to grab the rotor, make sure it turns a little, and easily springs back.

[massiveheadake86]

that's good to know :-)

As far as the rotor goes I went and pushed on it and yes it dose spring back so i'm thinking the distributor maybe ok even with that much play

[Dr_Snooz]

Spend some time going through the complete timing inspection detailed in the manual on p. It involves a lot more than shining a light on the flywheel. Here's a link to the '89 manual (http://honda.roadpwnage.com/manuals/pages/usdm-accord-1989-full.php). Yours will be similar. Also double check your timing belt. Make sure that both the crank and camshaft are at TDC. It's easy to get them a tooth or two off and that will cause all kinds of timing fun.

Most importantly, have you spent the requisite month or two tuning the new carb? You can't just pop a new carb on the car and drive away. You have to set idle mixture, main jets and metering rods (if appropriate), secondary jets and rods, choke actuation, idle speed, etc. etc. etc. It takes a lot of time and study to get it right.

Finally, when was your last tune up (plugs, wires, cap and rotor)?

[massiveheadake86]

It's got a fresh tune up oil change plug's wires spark plugs brand new timing belt and Yes i'm 100% sure its on correctly.

Anytime I try and adjust the carb it just gets angry and backfires then the car dies out. There are only 2 external adjustments on the carb anyways right?

I have found out something today that maybe the main problem! There is a black and yellow strip wire going to a little condenser box by the coil and then right to ground on the distributor. Dose anyone know about with this wire? I seem to have 12v at mine and not ground it keeps blowing the 40a main fuse. Is this normally ground? Is it timing related?

[Oldblueaccord]

I have a 86 accord hatch 2.0 5 speed trans

I have done the Weber conversion on it with a 32/36 Weber w/ adapter plate. The car starts right up no problem but as soon as i got to rev the motor it backfires thew the carb and stalls out. I am using a Hitachi distributor. Anyone have any idea's? I have installed a brand new timing belt and confirmed timing is on or at-least close. Its like spark will not advance.

Timing.

I would plug off the vacuum advance and get it running.

then figure if the vacuum advance is working or not or you got it plumbed to the wrong port.

I would start by advancing it alot see if you can get the tip in backfire away enough to get a few street runs in.

[massiveheadake86]

I have advanced the timing as far as I can go and it still backfire's it runs alot better mega advanced but wont rev past about 1200 rpm.


Vacuum advance is working just fine. If you read down I have replaced it with a new one.

I have sent the dam Weber carb off to be rebuilt we will see what happens.

Dose anyone have a electrical diagram (a good one) of the ignition system coil distributor wiring etc

[Oldblueaccord]

I have advanced the timing as far as I can go and it still backfire's it runs alot better mega advanced but wont rev past about 1200 rpm.


Vacuum advance is working just fine. If you read down I have replaced it with a new one.

I have sent the dam Weber carb off to be rebuilt we will see what happens.

Dose anyone have a electrical diagram (a good one) of the ignition system coil distributor wiring etc

Plug the advance. If its hooked up wrong its hurting not helping,if its faulty its not helping. New does not mean it is working correctly.

Just for anyone that wants to learn Hot Rod magazine this months with the long legged blonde wearing a belt as a skirt has a good trouble shooting article every month in the back. This months is the same problem just a 57 chevy.

[H86accord]

I would check the way you put on the distributor it can be 180 degrees off

[Jafir]

I would check the way you put on the distributor it can be 180 degrees off

It cannot under normal conditions. The distributor drive is offset and driven directly by the camshaft. It can only go in one way. I've seen ONE guy force one in 180 out, but he literally had to FORCE it, like crank it down with the mounting bolts to get it to seat. It should just slide in nice and smooth with no tools. Also, if it were to be installed 180 out, it wouldn't start at all.

[massiveheadake86]

I just had the carb 32/36 rebuilt. The only way it will stay running is if i take the distributor mounting bolts out and advance it as far as I can. Dose that sound like a timing issue to anyone else?

[Oldblueaccord]

Timing.

I would plug off the vacuum advance and get it running.

then figure if the vacuum advance is working or not or you got it plumbed to the wrong port.

I would start by advancing it alot see if you can get the tip in backfire away enough to get a few street runs in.

rechecked timing belt the big T is TDC on the flywheel.

[massiveheadake86]

"big T is TDC on the flywheel." I don't understand what? I will pull off the timing belt and re do it. I know the UP on the cam shaft goes in the 12oclock position but how do I line up the crankshaft before I put the belt on.

[2oodoor]

There is a rubber plug on the bell housing just below where the distributor, pop out the plug and you see the flywheel. There are all sorts of painte marks and large notchs NONE of this is tdc... A faintly visable sideways T marks is tdc lined up with the pointer in that hole.
If your upper timing belt cover is off all you have to do is loosen the tensioner bolt that pokes thru the lower Timing belt cover, pull out all the spark plugs so you can easily turn motor by hand with a ratchet wrench on the crank bolt... Slide the belt off the cam gear and line it all up correctly, slide the belt back on, turn the motor about one revolution to take up the slack in the belt, tighten the tensioner bolt, check timing marks again then put plugs bak in and youre done.

[Dr_Snooz]

The easiest is to slide the cam gear off the cam, reposition the belt and replace the gear.

[massiveheadake86]

I have found and lined up the T mark on the flywheel! I removed the timing cover and this is what the cam gear looks like, I have lined it up with the cam cap groves. This is how it is without having me change anything. Dose it look straight to everyone else on the form?

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y413/boostking421/IMG_1094_zpscdb4d1cf.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/boostking421/media/IMG_1094_zpscdb4d1cf.jpg.html)

[2oodoor]

The easiest is to slide the cam gear off the cam, reposition the belt and replace the gear.

I totally agree to disagree with that!

And I can't tell at the pic angle if the two dots are even with the top of the head but it basicly looks close.

[Jafir]

I have found and lined up the T mark on the flywheel! I removed the timing cover and this is what the cam gear looks like, I have lined it up with the cam cap groves. This is how it is without having me change anything. Dose it look straight to everyone else on the form?

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y413/boostking421/IMG_1094_zpscdb4d1cf.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/boostking421/media/IMG_1094_zpscdb4d1cf.jpg.html)

Cannot tell from that side. The marks are on the back of the cam gear and should line up with the edge of the cylinder head.

The manual shows the marks in the valve adjusting section, better than it shows them in the timing belt section.

[massiveheadake86]

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y413/boostking421/IMG_1100_zps9df0fa64.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/boostking421/media/IMG_1100_zps9df0fa64.jpg.html)

I can clearly see the timing mark on the back of the cam gear. Dose this mean mt T belt is on correctly?

[HLW]

http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y413/boostking421/IMG_1100_zps9df0fa64.jpg (http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/boostking421/media/IMG_1100_zps9df0fa64.jpg.html)

I can clearly see the timing mark on the back of the cam gear. Dose this mean mt T belt is on correctly?

The cam gear sitting like that with the T on the flywheel lined up with the timing mark is on correctly.

[massiveheadake86]

Alright if timing is on for a face. I have a brand new Weber 32/36. What else could it be? Could the ignitor inside of the distributor cause this?

[2oodoor]

I doubt it, can you take a nice few clean pic of your carb install? Leave the air cleaner off for the pics.

[Oldblueaccord]

The cam gear sitting like that with the T on the flywheel lined up with the timing mark is on correctly.


http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4522/s44b.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/s44b.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

The T will look something like this but I think the carb flywheel is a little different.

[HLW]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4522/s44b.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/s44b.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

The T will look something like this but I think the carb flywheel is a little different.

The T on the carb flywheel is the same but the carb flywheel may have a 20 degree timing mark instead of a 15 degree timing mark.

[Oldblueaccord]

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/4522/s44b.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/s44b.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

The T will look something like this but I think the carb flywheel is a little different.

Also I should add its TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke,both valves closed.

NOT the exhaust stroke where the exhaust valve is open. That would backfire a lot esp on a carb.

Look at the valves on the #1 piston at TDC.

[massiveheadake86]

Alright my timing is dead on! but I have to take the mounting bolts out of the distributor and advance all the way and then some to get it to start up. I'm thinking I may have the wrong jets in the carb. Can anyone tell me what jet's I should have in my weber 32/36 to make it run right? Has anyone ever seen a stuck intake valve on one of these 2.0L before? How do I set lash on the valves?

[Dr_Snooz]

I haven't seen sticky valves, but I have seen worn out cam lobes.

[massiveheadake86]

How do I tell if my cam lobes are worn out? Dose anyone have a picture example?

[massiveheadake86]

My timing is dead on! Also my compression check comes back at a little over 180 per cylinder. Can I have a bent valve possibility?

[2oodoor]

You sure the throttle is actually opening all the way, sometimes if the adapter is turned around the throttle butterflys contact the adapter and won't open or get stuck wide open.

[massiveheadake86]

Yes I can open the throttle all the way and it closed all the way. My compression is 180 across the board. I just dont know what else to check

[Dr_Snooz]

Is the car not starting?