B20A dyno results in!!

[bullard123]

Finally got around to dynoing the B20A today. The long wait is now over! Vidz or it didn't happen right lol. Well here are some teaser pics:
Pics and vids were taken with my iphone:
http://imageshack.us/a/img22/3396/0g7x.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img802/4743/cvym.jpg
I will upload the vids tomorrow. Sorry guys I need to resize them

[2ndGenGuy]

Wat?! Where's the results?! Aaahhh!

[Tdurr]

^^^^ what he said!!!!

[AccordB20A]

i somehow feel let down now

[Rendon LX-i]

What the freak. Fuck us dry why don't ya lmfao. Results now lol

[A18A]

What the freak. Fuck us dry why don't ya lmfao. Results now lol

:naughty:

[2oodoor]

Take a picture and post! Or scan it and change file to jpg :)

[bullard123]

Ha ha!! Had to tease you guys first. Videos are being uploaded now:)

[bullard123]

First vid is up! Vid came out small because the iphone was turned the wrong way. I will have to resize it later
1988 Honda Accord B20A swap Dyno run 1 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rAT426r2gA&feature=youtu.be)

2nd run
Dyno run 2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCaxwGomYXc)

[bullard123]

Here is my last run
YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwZfOYu3pWg&feature=youtu.be)

[Tdurr]

damn my dumb smart phone! ill watch the vids when i get off work today

[bullard123]

^^Alright cool! And here are the results:

[MessyHonda]

you always wanted to dyno a stock b20. so the results 118.4 HP and 117.9tq im assuming that is power to the wheels.

now convert it to OBD1 and tune it. im sure that motor can put out another 10-20hp with a good tune and it will be much funner to drive.

[2ndGenGuy]

Is that a blacktop? That seems right about spot on! Nice flat torque curve though from 2500 on up! Looks like you could get a little leaner up top, but that would be why you'd wanna tune. Nice safe AFRs from the factory. The HP doesn't look like you got it to the point where it's tapering off though. I wonder if you sourced some gold top or B18 cams what it would do... And I bet if you wound it up to 7000 if you wouldn't show another 10hp or so. Isn't that motor supposed to red line at 7000?

Thanks for posting that! Good stuff!

[Rendon LX-i]

very nice. some cams would pep her up but then you would need a tune. ME i like speed lol. i would obd1 and cams lol.

[bullard123]

Thanks guys! I thought the hp was a bit on the low end. But im at high altitude too. And i have goldtop cams in my blacktop B20a. So does this solve the while 160hp goldtop 145hp blacktop mystery?

[bullard123]

Man you guys are all on it. My next step is to definitely fo the obd1 conversion and get some aftermarket cams. I slso want to get my intake manifold ported and track down some headers. They seem so hard to find for the b20a. And 2ndgenguy hit the nail right on the head. On the second graph i was running rich and lean. They told me i should be flat across the 13 mark on the second graph. So she definitely needs a tune.

[bullard123]

[QUOTE=2ndGenGuy;1131868]Is that a blacktop? That seems right about spot on! Nice flat torque curve though from 2500 on up! Looks like you could get a little leaner up top, but that would be why you'd wanna tune. Nice safe AFRs from the factory. The HP doesn't look like you got it to the point where it's tapering off though. I wonder if you sourced some gold top or B18 cams what it would do... And I bet if you wound it up to 7000 if you wouldn't show another 10hp or so. Isn't that motor supposed to red line at 7000?
Its at 6500 i believe. And i forgot to take the rev limiter into consideration. I wonder if switching to obd1 will remove it?

[AccordB20A]

That engine has done well then. I remember doing skids with it before i sold it to you haha. That engine is from the same car my digital dash came out of (Y)

Do the OBD1 swap and you can change pretty much anything on the engine. rev limiter etc. Will make more power with a dyno tune also.

[bullard123]

That engine has done well then. I remember doing skids with it before i sold it to you haha. That engine is from the same car my digital dash came out of (Y)

Do the OBD1 swap and you can change pretty much anything on the engine. rev limiter etc. Will make more power with a dyno tune also.
Yeah Aaron. Thats your engine! To me it feels like its making way more power. I bet the obd1 conversion will prove it. I need to pm lxincredible to see if he has any obd1 harnesses left

[AccordB20A]

yeah with a shit tune mine felt fast too but was making like no power.

[Rendon LX-i]

Do a nice intake manifold like Arron has on his b20. Shunk 2 or blox an a good tb you'll be set

[Hauntd ca3]

i dont feel so bad now!
105 after spinning a bearing, would like to know what it would have made if it didnt

[2oodoor]

Thanks guys! I thought the hp was a bit on the low end. But im at high altitude too. And i have goldtop cams in my blacktop B20a. So does this solve the while 160hp goldtop 145hp blacktop mystery?

No it doesn't

Also besides a "tune" using obd, there is something wrong with what ya got, as in what's there isn't set right. What has ben recommended for mods so far is spot on, Im not disagreeing with that.

[bullard123]

@ Haunted Ca3. Yeah not bad. Is yours pretty much stock?

[bullard123]

No it doesn't

Also besides a "tune" using obd, there is something wrong with what ya got, as in what's there isn't set right. What has ben recommended for mods so far is spot on, Im not disagreeing with that.
Nah the motor is fine. No check engine lights are on and she runs nicely. Now that i think about the rev limiter, high altitude and the car not being tuned, she seems to be right on like 2nd gen guy said. My main focus now is to get the obd-1 conversion done with some bolt on mods and get her redyno'ed

[Hauntd ca3]

@ Haunted Ca3. Yeah not bad. Is yours pretty much stock?
when i ran it, it had headers,2.25 inch exhaust and sri.
also had flat battery mod,needs a service mod, and only pulling 5500rpm.
would hate to imagine what would have happened hitting the limiter

[AccordB20A]

there is definately gains to be had from a tune. The stock ECU works well in japan. low altitude and on high octane fuel. Way up in the clouds in colorado the tune will be off for sure. Im not sue what fuel you guys have over there either....

[bullard123]

when i ran it, it had headers,2.25 inch exhaust and sri.
also had flat battery mod,needs a service mod, and only pulling 5500rpm.
would hate to imagine what would have happened hitting the limiter

Ahhh i see. That explains why your numbers were lower. Lol at the needs a service mod. Why was it only revving to 5500 rpm's?

[bullard123]

there is definately gains to be had from a tune. The stock ECU works well in japan. low altitude and on high octane fuel. Way up in the clouds in colorado the tune will be off for sure. Im not sue what fuel you guys have over there either....

I was running regular unleaded when I did my run which is 85. Aaron which intake manifold are you running?

[2ndGenGuy]

I don't get why altitude would affect the tune? The MAP sensor should compensate for the lower air pressure, shouldn't it?

[bullard123]

I don't get why altitude would affect the tune? The MAP sensor should compensate for the lower air pressure, shouldn't it?

They say the high altitude robs horsepower. I was expecting the numbers to be slightly lower because of that. The thin air out here sucks lol

As far as the tune is concerned they said that was a total different issue I had to deal with

[AccordB20A]

the ecu still needs to know what the atmospheric pressure is. which JDM ecus dont have them

[AccordB20A]

My intake manifold is only a cheapo XSpower thing i got for next to nothing. its basically a copy of a JDM ITR manifold. Make sure you get an aftermakret B18b/B20B manifold as they fit WAY better than vtec B series ones do.

[Hauntd ca3]

Ahhh i see. That explains why your numbers were lower. Lol at the needs a service mod. Why was it only revving to 5500 rpm's?

the needs a service mod was why i only went to 5500rpm on the dyno.
it was an old water brake type and was a real balancing act to get a good reading.
not enough load, and it would sing to the limiter in a second, to much and would just bog down.
it wasnt really the best thing for it, and is prob why it spun a bearing on the run.
surprisingly enough, it ran sweet as on the way home which did include a run to 6500.
cant wait til can afford to rebuild the motor the way i want it.

[AccordB20A]

ive had my engine at 7500 a few times. wish it made power up there

[bullard123]

My intake manifold is only a cheapo XSpower thing i got for next to nothing. its basically a copy of a JDM ITR manifold. Make sure you get an aftermakret B18b/B20B manifold as they fit WAY better than vtec B series ones do.

Ok cool. So its gonna need some slight modifications to fit?

[bullard123]

the needs a service mod was why i only went to 5500rpm on the dyno.
it was an old water brake type and was a real balancing act to get a good reading.
not enough load, and it would sing to the limiter in a second, to much and would just bog down.
it wasnt really the best thing for it, and is prob why it spun a bearing on the run.
surprisingly enough, it ran sweet as on the way home which did include a run to 6500.
cant wait til can afford to rebuild the motor the way i want it.

Ahhh I see lol wow. I guess it was good in a way to rev it high to reveal what issues it had. Are you planning on getting another B20A as a backup?

[2oodoor]

A dohc 2.0 liter car engine should output no less than 130 hp and similar torque... Compare to any other brand! Just saying...
I hope you can improve. I think a A20 can give better numbers than that with some changes just in timing settings and some parts removal?

[AccordB20A]

^ Yours has a carb its probabaly putting out less hahahaha

[Hauntd ca3]

Ahhh I see lol wow. I guess it was good in a way to rev it high to reveal what issues it had. Are you planning on getting another B20A as a backup?

its going to cost me bout 200 to repair my block.
it made a mess.
thrust bearings welded to the block, wore bout a 50 thou groove in the block where the bearing goes.
marked the crank up good.
crank needs a 10 thou under grind and going 40 thou over bore.
cheaper to repair what i have than to get another block.
going nuts with it.
200whp shouldnt be to far off

[2oodoor]

^ Yours has a carb its probabaly putting out less hahahaha
Hardly, the butt dyno doesn't lie on long steep grades :) good one though!
It's way more power& torque than my lxi hatch and big difference on grades. Just comparing to the other Hondas Ive driven, and our Mazda ztec dohc 2.0 which is alleged 130 hp but is very slow.
No arguing valid without dyno though so... Yeah just the butt which are speculative results lol.

I do need a manual 5 speed seriously I can tell the auto sucking power badly at times.

[cygnus x-1]

Considering that Colorado Springs is at about 6000ft above sea level, that graph looks pretty good. Altitude correction is somewhat difficult to do (even knowing the variables) but it could pretty easily make a 10% difference.

At altitude the air is thinner, meaning that less air goes through the engine. Which also means that less fuel is going through the engine as well, so less power. I'm not familiar with the B20 engine but the A20 has not only a MAP sensor (for engine load) but also an absolute pressure sensor for atmospheric pressure. It is able to adjust the AFR to compensate for altitude, but less air still means less power. It's exactly the opposite of a turbo (more air) adding more power.

C|

[2ndGenGuy]

^ That's what I thought. You'd make overall less power, but it's not going to screw up the "tune." It's not like you'll be running rich at high altitudes. You might get less air, but the computer will also deliver less fuel, the tune will still be the same for the given amount of air... At least that's what my thinking was. There also is no way to get that power back by tuning it for higher altitudes.


A dohc 2.0 liter car engine should output no less than 130 hp and similar torque... Compare to any other brand! Just saying...
I hope you can improve. I think a A20 can give better numbers than that with some changes just in timing settings and some parts removal?

I don't think that means he's low on power though necessarily. He put down 118 to the wheels. If we were assuming his engine made 130 to the crank, that is either a 9% drivetrain loss, or he is making well over 130hp. And yeah, considering the altitude...

[2oodoor]

2GG that was about the carbed remark more so than... :)

[RobT5580]

Its been a while but i just checked in and this is giving me motivation. I have been out of the loop for a bit but i wish i had my stock B20A dynoed as i put some hard miles on it and it seemed solid for what it was. I'm in the middle of moving but if you need anything pm me as i have some parts lying around and may have to think for a moment about what it is i have. I lost track of my B20A but did call the machinist this week as they have had it since Feb but im not pushing with whats been going on otherwise.

[bullard123]

Considering that Colorado Springs is at about 6000ft above sea level, that graph looks pretty good. Altitude correction is somewhat difficult to do (even knowing the variables) but it could pretty easily make a 10% difference.

At altitude the air is thinner, meaning that less air goes through the engine. Which also means that less fuel is going through the engine as well, so less power. I'm not familiar with the B20 engine but the A20 has not only a MAP sensor (for engine load) but also an absolute pressure sensor for atmospheric pressure. It is able to adjust the AFR to compensate for altitude, but less air still means less power. It's exactly the opposite of a turbo (more air) adding more power.

C|

Exactly! Hit the nail right on the head. People even have a hard time running here too which is why we have the Olympic Training Center located here in town. A lot of known Olympic athletes come to train here at higher altitudes which helps cut time off of their times when they run at sea level. I remember when I first got here when I was in the Military and ran. I thought I was gonna die for lack of oxygen lol

[bullard123]

its going to cost me bout 200 to repair my block.
it made a mess.
thrust bearings welded to the block, wore bout a 50 thou groove in the block where the bearing goes.
marked the crank up good.
crank needs a 10 thou under grind and going 40 thou over bore.
cheaper to repair what i have than to get another block.
going nuts with it.
200whp shouldnt be to far off

Whoa bro!! That sounds pretty Catastrophic. I bet that made a loud noise while you was on the dyno

[bullard123]

Its been a while but i just checked in and this is giving me motivation. I have been out of the loop for a bit but i wish i had my stock B20A dynoed as i put some hard miles on it and it seemed solid for what it was. I'm in the middle of moving but if you need anything pm me as i have some parts lying around and may have to think for a moment about what it is i have. I lost track of my B20A but did call the machinist this week as they have had it since Feb but im not pushing with whats been going on otherwise.

What up Rob!! Yeah I was wondering how your build was going. I'm glad I finally got around to doing mine. Everybody kept asking me which engine I had. All I saw there was a stupid amount of Subaru's lol . Pm sent

[gp02a0083]

it's interesting with some of the dyno graphs I've been looking at even on the facebook page. I'm really kinda surprised that your dyno runs are almost on par with some of the A20 dyno graphs ive been looking at with just a few simple mods. Josh's boosted A20 is the only graph i've seen so far that does not have the same trend lines due to the turbo, it really makes me thing there is more potential in the A20 than many of us think there is

[2ndGenGuy]

Yeah but I'd like to do the same mods to the B20A and see what happens.

[2oodoor]

Before this turns into b vs a thing... It is about flow, how much you can push thru the compression chamber, weather it be the ignited mixture and when/what it ignites or forcing flow with a turbo, SC, or Nitrous. Both are 2.0 liters but the Dohc, in logic, should be able to flow better in a NA set up. We've seen here in this forum examples of maxed out A20 and B20 boosted and they produced similar numbers but both lifted the heads and blew HG. Cam overlap limits how much you can pressurize the cyl at the temperatures their running.
This is why vtec variable cam timing was developed for reliable increased streetable power at those temperatures.
Tuning the when and how much is what maximizes the potential output, and let me mention these cars are de-tuned from that potential to meet emissions and have a midrange of power to promote good drivability under all conditions, all weather, all loads tc.

[cygnus x-1]

It IS all about flow, which is why the B series will *usually* win over the A series. The extra 4 valves make all the difference.

The A series has serious boost potential though.

C|

[bullard123]

^^^very true about the air flow. On a side note anyone know what this piece goes too? Its the part in the picture with the ziptie around it. Looks like it might be used to drain coolant? Anyway it has a vacum plug on it but i think that a hose should go there. B20 guys feel free to chime in.
http://imageshack.us/a/img812/125/tzvk.jpg

[gp02a0083]

I'm not trying to start a B vs A thing either. I was just impressed that even with a few mods on the A series you can get something relatively close to what the B curves that bullard posted. Bullard has mentioned that he needs to tune it a bit and im sure that will help distinguish the B from the A. I agree fully with 2oodoor and cygnus,a lot of power is gained / lost in the head work, I've seen this many times with the V-8's just a small change to even how the spring seats and is located can rob you of that extra couple of HP and rpm's in the valve train. I think it would be a good idea to have a sticky somewhere with dyno charts and accompanied modifications.

[bullard123]

Here is a better pic of what I'm talking about. Its the part where the white vacuum plug is with the small screw clamp attached. I need to find out what goes there:
http://imageshack.us/a/img534/7751/9a61.jpg

[AccordB20A]

looks like its just a water line that used to go to a tee into the line to the fast idle valve. its not really important if your engines running good.

[bullard123]

Could you post a pic of how it runs on your engine? The hot antifreeze is causing that plug to get a hole in it and antifreeze is squiriting out of it

[CA5_KMT_LX]

Which b20a are you running? The JDM or the EDM... and do you have the ph3 ecu? I ask becUse I have a same motor with the ph3, and those numbers seem kinda low in my opinion( i was thinkin 125+whp). Makes me worried when I swap in a BONE STOCK one!!!

[MessyHonda]

Which b20a are you running? The JDM or the EDM... and do you have the ph3 ecu? I ask becUse I have a same motor with the ph3, and those numbers seem kinda low in my opinion( i was thinkin 125+whp). Makes me worried when I swap in a BONE STOCK one!!!

you should dyno yours to see what it does

[rjudgey]

I'd like to do the same amount of work on a B20A as to what I've done on my A18/20 and see which one is the better engine. At the moment my A18/20 puts down 200bhp fly at 7600rpm and 160lbft at 6600rpm from what I've seen the A18/20 is the better revver picks up faster much better throttle response, B20A has excellent low down torque due to the longer stroke. But std head on both the B20A is much better as apart from the 4 extra exhaust valves, the intake valves are 3mm larger on each one add the ability to tune the cams and this can gain quite a lot of extra power, but the chambers in the B20A are very small due to the large stroke and small bore so getting valves that are any bigger than 33mm is virtually impossible 33.5mm or maybe 34mm is the biggest you can go, the A18 head you can fit 33mm valves in easily and with new seats possible to go as big as 35mm with a 83.25mm rebore which would certainly make this a more interesting prospect, you also have the high compression you can get running A18 head with a 83-83.25mm bore size which easily surpases anything a B20A can have without major modification but as others pointed out gaskets on both are weak point when running anything higher than 11:1 CR ratio.

Both are completely different engines but both have some good positives and negatives but I guess untill I finally get to grips with a B20A like I have a A18/20 I and you won't really know which one is best, hopefully in the next year I'll be able to build one up play with I have all the parts just need some time, I spent a lot of time on Benny's engine which I really wish could have been mine instead but I'd have gone further with the modifications if it had been my own one, would also have been good to have seen some dyno results from Benny's engine as I'm sure it would have made some decent power I reckon it was easily 160bhp and 145lbft despite being EDM due to headwork, rebuild, header, exhaust and cam's dialed in but I don't think we'll ever find out as the cars been parted out and Benny's gone off traveling in Auz.

[bullard123]

Which b20a are you running? The JDM or the EDM... and do you have the ph3 ecu? I ask becUse I have a same motor with the ph3, and those numbers seem kinda low in my opinion( i was thinkin 125+whp). Makes me worried when I swap in a BONE STOCK one!!!

I have the jdm blacktop B20A with the prelude PK2 ecu. You guys gotta keep in mind that I'm at high altitude too

[bullard123]

I'd like to do the same amount of work on a B20A as to what I've done on my A18/20 and see which one is the better engine. At the moment my A18/20 puts down 200bhp fly at 7600rpm and 160lbft at 6600rpm from what I've seen the A18/20 is the better revver picks up faster much better throttle response, B20A has excellent low down torque due to the longer stroke. But std head on both the B20A is much better as apart from the 4 extra exhaust valves, the intake valves are 3mm larger on each one add the ability to tune the cams and this can gain quite a lot of extra power, but the chambers in the B20A are very small due to the large stroke and small bore so getting valves that are any bigger than 33mm is virtually impossible 33.5mm or maybe 34mm is the biggest you can go, the A18 head you can fit 33mm valves in easily and with new seats possible to go as big as 35mm with a 83.25mm rebore which would certainly make this a more interesting prospect, you also have the high compression you can get running A18 head with a 83-83.25mm bore size which easily surpases anything a B20A can have without major modification but as others pointed out gaskets on both are weak point when running anything higher than 11:1 CR ratio.

Both are completely different engines but both have some good positives and negatives but I guess untill I finally get to grips with a B20A like I have a A18/20 I and you won't really know which one is best, hopefully in the next year I'll be able to build one up play with I have all the parts just need some time, I spent a lot of time on Benny's engine which I really wish could have been mine instead but I'd have gone further with the modifications if it had been my own one, would also have been good to have seen some dyno results from Benny's engine as I'm sure it would have made some decent power I reckon it was easily 160bhp and 145lbft despite being EDM due to headwork, rebuild, header, exhaust and cam's dialed in but I don't think we'll ever find out as the cars been parted out and Benny's gone off traveling in Auz.

Yeah Rjudgey you should build one! I should have a few more mods done to mine by tax season and I'm taking her back to the dyno again! Should be winter by then so I know I will get some better numbers. Can't wait to go Obd-1 to get rid of the rev limiter that will show an improvement in hp by its self

[Hauntd ca3]

Whoa bro!! That sounds pretty Catastrophic. I bet that made a loud noise while you was on the dyno

didnt hear it make a noise.
was testing out my new mega noisy exhaust at the time.
i think the bottom end on these things is strong as all hell, with a full length main bearing girdle,steel main caps and a forged steel crank, having a bearing out of the picture didnt seems to matter that much.
it did stall (nip up) after my first run, but just started up and went again.
drove it home and it still went pretty well

[AccordB20A]

im still waiting on exhaust and intake before i dyno and tune haha

[bullard123]

didnt hear it make a noise.
was testing out my new mega noisy exhaust at the time.
i think the bottom end on these things is strong as all hell, with a full length main bearing girdle,steel main caps and a forged steel crank, having a bearing out of the picture didnt seems to matter that much.
it did stall (nip up) after my first run, but just started up and went again.
drove it home and it still went pretty well

Ha ha wow. Your B20A is bullet proof! Are you planning to rebuild it??

[Hauntd ca3]

yeah, i'm going to rebuild it.
once i get my arse into gear and get the paint finished.
going to have some fun with it tho.
have some H beam rods already :)

[rjudgey]

don't foget to get oil squirter holes drilled into the rods or you'll wreck rings and pistons as it will be starved of engine oil.

[89T]

Great to see you at it Bullard. I would like to let everyone know that that dyno is called the heart breaker....if Charles took his car anywhere else it would have read about 15% higher. I will add that that dyno has been backed up with actual track times and the calculated power will match up with it. I caught a peek of you rolling on base last week off titus by evans hospital.

[bullard123]

Great to see you at it Bullard. I would like to let everyone know that that dyno is called the heart breaker....if Charles took his car anywhere else it would have read about 15% higher. I will add that that dyno has been backed up with actual track times and the calculated power will match up with it. I caught a peek of you rolling on base last week off titus by evans hospital.

What up Jerry. Yeah I work out there in the Hospital. What you rolling in now? Yeah this high altitude is killer

[89T]

Nothin to do with altitude. Rest assured that those are true hp numbers. I still have the accord, but I picked up a 06 suby wrx tr.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[bullard123]

Nothin to do with altitude. Rest assured that those are true hp numbers. I still have the accord, but I picked up a 06 suby wrx tr.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Remember my car has the rev limiter too. I think its at 6500 rpm or something like that. I can't wait to do the obd1 conversion add some bolt-ons and redyno

[MessyHonda]

its time to OBD1 tune. im sure that motor has some hidden power.

[bullard123]

its time to OBD1 tune. im sure that motor has some hidden power.

Yep that's it exactly messy! I'm gonna start getting parts together next month

[AccordB20A]

tops (Y)

I know my motor with its basic road tune feels no faster if not slower than a stock one. But thats because theres no ignition map tuning and thats where all the power will be with this motor i have. Im sure a tune on even a stock engine will give more power.

[Charlie5280]

^^Alright cool! And here are the results:\

Great numbers on that "heartbreaker" dyno down there at Revolutions.

All she needs is some spray! :)

[tolyan8309]

how are the results?

[tolyan8309]

how are the results?

[bullard123]

It dynoed at 137 whp. I had a check engine light on during the run. Im gonna get it redone this summer once I get a few upgrades