Radiator Cooling fan

[smufguy]

i already noted this in my other post (ECU CODE #6). but lemme make it official here for everyone.

MY fan wont come on. the ones on the radiator. All the fuses in the engine bay and cabin are good. relay is fine. The radiator temp sensor is a working one from my other radiator. The fans are my old ones that are working.

Why wont it come on? Shorted the clip connectors, but none of the fan comes on. I don tkonw what the fuck is wrong. any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.

[anchovies]

Test just the fans to make sure the motor is good.

[smufguy]

yep, tested em. Connected directly to battery, they are good. They are from my old ones, so i know they are not bad.

[doug]

something you might try is to unplug the connector to the fan switch on the radiator and use a paper clip or something to complete the circuit in the plug, if the fans come on, should be the switch, if they still dont the problem is elsewhere.

[cruznz]

possibly control module for fans

[88LXi/87CRXSi]

I agree with cruznz, it's seems likely it's your radiator fan controller/timer, since u did your efi swap, and changed the wiring harness. Didn't follow your conversion, but I would guess you added it under the passenger seat, when u put the harness in!
If that's not it, I scanned the carb & efi wiring circuits. maybe that'll help you trace the problem. Sorry about the quality!

Carb circuit (http://members.nccw.net/heywood/Fan%20circuit%20(Carb).jpg)

EFI Circuit (http://members.nccw.net/heywood/Fan%20circuit%20(EFI).jpg)

-Steve

[smufguy]

okay, I am getting another controller from the efi, maybe two tomorrow and swap it and see what happened. Thanks guys, I always wondered what the hell that black thing was under my passenger seat.

[rocky2]

Also be sure coolent is flowing though radiator. Do this by feeling lower radiator hose,it should be same heat as upper,if not change thermostat. Fan won't come on unless senser in radaitor tells it to.

[smufguy]

everything is fine. Tested everything and coolent is good (brand new). Radiator is good no blockage. Coolent flows, just wont cool down cause the fan wont come on. thanks guys.

[smufguy]

okay got two other controllers in there, none of them turn the fan on. Jumped the clips, they dont work. What the fuck is wrong with this shit?

Greenmachine how did u overcome ur problem man? Was it the same u got? Is there anyway something else might be wrong?

[cruznz]

get a multi-meter or LED test light and check that you are getting voltage to control module

[smufguy]

it should be though. cause everything is working with the harness, the window control works and the relay for the moonroof also works.

the other fucked up thing is my front flashers and bumper lights wont work. what the heck is wrong with that??? my fuses are fine, all relays are good.

I think i have to hot wire my radiator fans and run a seperate wire for that shit. god i hate this fucking thing. IF nothing works, i am just gonna go give it to my mechanic and see what he can find.

[ACCORD EX]

measeure Continuity between the fuse box to the fan harness to make sure everything is ok between them !

MIKE

[smufguy]

Mike do i use a multimeter to do that? Or just use a test light to do it? I wanna get a multimeter. Gotta shop online for it.

[oldsub86]

Sometimes the test light is better than a meter when testing for voltage. You can have voltage present but still not have a good contact that is capable of running the load. I had this problem with my wife's car (not a Honda) recently. The windshield washer pump would not run. I checked the terminals at the pump with a meter and there was 12 volts so I assumed the pump motor was bad - a bad assumption on my part. I changed it and it did not help. My brother in law is a mechanic and he suggested using the test light. He was right - there was voltage but not sufficient current to light the test lamp. I traced the circuit back to the fuse panel under the hood and pulled the relay out and shoved it back in and the test light came on . Bingo - the pump runs - so it was just a bad contact on the relay where it plugs into the fuse box. Sprayed with contact cleaner and it has been fine for a month now. So - the moral of the story is that you may want to use both a meter and a test light to ensure you don't buy parts you don't need.

Randy

[88LXi/87CRXSi]

Like oldsub86, Mike & others said, check the connecter to the module first I guess. A test light will work fine. Not sure what to use to probe the connecter with, piece of thin solid wire? But, with the key "on", you should have 12v+ at terminals 2, 6, & 7. With the rad. & t/s temp switches jumpered, you should have continuity to ground with terms. 4, 5, & 8. If you have all those, u could jumper term. 2 to term. 3 (with key on & temp, switches jumped) the fan relay should close & fan starts! Terms 2 to 1, cond. fan relay energized, & cond. fan should strart! If not let us know what u find.
Btw.. I took a look at the connecter on mine, I guess I twisted the plug or something, but my dash lights lit up!!!:huh: Put key in, started it, turned key off , pulled out. stiil running! lol pulled plug, engine died. put plug in, wiggled it till the dash lights were out, didn't take much, everythings normal. Point is that if my plug is that freaking "fragile", your's may be too!

-Steve

[cruznz]

Originally posted by smufguy
Mike do i use a multimeter to do that? Or just use a test light to do it? I wanna get a multimeter. Gotta shop online for it.

to check continuity a digital multimeter is used as it's more accurate,(depending on make of course)or a self powered test light,(make sure to disconnect wiring first)...but an LED test light,(ECU safe), is cheaper and quickly tells you whether there's voltage or not when checking the voltage tests that 88LXi/87CRXSi posted

[smufguy]

Steve, where did u get the dig from bro? is it from paul's website? i cant seem to find that thing in my files that i downloaded. is the condenser fan relay the Sub cooling fan relay? the radiator fan relay is the Cooling fan relay right?

Thanks for the dig man.

[88LXi/87CRXSi]

Praveen, your're welcome man! Paul's manual wouldn't have it since the 86-7 efi's don't have that circuit, I guess. I scanned it from my 88 Helms serv manual. I guess you could refer to those relays as sub-cooling and cooling like you say, just know the main one that's started by radiator temp switch, is on the right, pass side, on @ about 194°F/90°C, off below 181°F/ 83°C. And the left one runs on @ 226°F/106°C, off below 214°F/101°C, and when the A/C is on and when u shut the engine off for 15 min. Doesn't really answer your question, I'm guessing.
I know nagging horseshit like this has got to be aggravating as hell after doing all that work!!! Here's another scan of the circuit from the manaul I just uploaded:
timer cicuit diagram (http://members.nccw.net/heywood/Timer%20circuit%20diagram.jpg)
Let us know what u find, hope u solve this!

-Steve

[GreenMachine]

I just swapped out the sensor on the bottom of the rad for the fan, it takes awhile for it to turn on but it works. I don't even have that box under the passenger seat ? WTF - the harness doesn't even have the wires for it, maybe 89 has it built in somewhere else ?
Well have ya let the car run for awhile let it warm up lots ? maybe it turns on late like mine ! I dunno dude

[cruznz]

good circuit diagram steve,......i'd think for the relays to work power needs to be coming from timer unit,which in my 86' jdm was located around the under dash fuse box,if i recall correctly.
Yours may be round that area too praveen

[ACCORD EX]

Originally posted by smufguy
Mike do i use a multimeter to do that? Or just use a test light to do it? I wanna get a multimeter. Gotta shop online for it.


use a normal or a digital multimeter , set it on OHMMETER ( 1K or 10 K , connect both multimeter wires to the start ( fuse box ) and the second to the fan harness (use a wire to extend it )

the multimeter should bring up and value ! if it doesn't move at all so you have a loose connection in somewhere in the middle !

MIKE

[cruznz]

Originally posted by ACCORD EX




the multimeter should bring up and value ! if it doesn't move at all so you have a loose connection in somewhere in the middle !

MIKE

hmmmm,....i think he may have proved this to be the case already.....by earthing the temp sensor........going by steve's circuit diagram....if you already know where the relays are for both motors....removing these ...with key off...with a digitalmeter...power will only be found at 1 terminal per relay connector.....key on.....power at 2 terminals per relay..
(well...i'd say definitely the radiator fan relay...as i'm unsure about timer,may need to jump temp sensor switch...?),proving that power was going thru timer or not.....maybe....wadda ya reckon??
:wtf:

[smufguy]

mine is a 89 and the harness i pulled out was from a 89 lxi, 4door sedan MT. Yes the black box for the cooling control that Steve posted was present in the 86-87 efi too. cause one of the controller was from a 87 efi sedan (Auto).

This to note

- Fan motors are excellent
- Fan relays are working, tested it out and works
- The sensor and sending units on the radiator and the thermostat are working, checked em out.
- Fuses are good too

My guess on the problem
- Jumped the clips on both the sensors and fan did nto turn on. I guess power is not going somewhere and need to check it out with a multimeter. Shit got exams coming up and this is a fucker. Drove the car around though. With no fender or bumper or even hood and wipers. Ahahahah, it was fun to drive my car finally.

Has a sticky throttle though, gotta grease that sucker. The fast idle is at 1.5K rpm and normal ildes around 800-900rpm. Seems kinda low, but warms up pretty quick though. Idles and runs soooo smooth compared to my crappy carb when it idled at 2K normal.

[cruznz]

yeh man,get that multi-meter,as you say,...most of the circuit is sweet but you still need to confirm that voltage is actually running thru the circuit......fuses' look ok...but is there power going to it?,.....if so.....is it going from the fuse to timer unit?.......from timer to relays....using a dig.m/meter on V,dc ...you can do voltage drop test on circuit to check for high resistance,no need to disconnect wiring this way,anything over 0.5v between each connection in circuit tells you there's a problem

Good luck with your exams


{Pete}

[ACCORD EX]

hey cruznz ! are you in electrical engineering !?

MIKE

[cruznz]

yeh, i am,.....i even went back to school ,(at my age!!!!!...lol)...to catch up on all EFI and Electronic Technology....that was 8 years ago....before that i was working on cars and heavy vehicles but my interests started going more towards electronic and electrical engineering......after all this time i'm still learning new things too ...it's a never ending learning experience, and challenge...and i enjoy it...

[smufguy]

thanks Cruznz. I ordered the meter last night, hope to get it by this weekend. Thanks guys, keep u all posted. My flashers in the front wont work. The rear comes on, but the front sucks, no bumper lights or cornering lights. But the thing is, i dont have my headlights installed yet. The headlight motors are not yet connected and so are the headlights. Do u think it might be because of this?

[cruznz]

i wouldn't think so....do the rear's flash?.....are bulbs/holders ,connections ok?...earth connections too.

[smufguy]

yeah rears flash and hazars flash the rears too, but the front wont come on. I got just one earth wire for the front and i grounded it to the cruize unit on the engine mount. I dont have the cruize unit so u know its in the bolt. The ground on the top of the valve cover is on the same engine mount too. cause my front is kinda ripped out. So do u think it might be this one casuing it? I gotta figure out how to and where everythign is cause of this rain and shit here in NJ is just sucky. I gotta be able to do it this thursday.

[88LXi/87CRXSi]

Praveen, as I was flipping thru the manual, I just came across the
circuit test, in the a/c section? Since you're getting a multi-meter, it lists the resistance of the relays (90-120 ohms) which might be helpfull.

COOLING FAN TIMER TEST (http://members.nccw.net/heywood/Timer%20circuit%20test.jpg)

Here's the relay test, it lists the terminal designations

RELAY TEST (http://members.nccw.net/heywood/relay%20test.jpg)

Oh, I took a look at the fusebox cover, and YES, the cooling fan=radiator fan and subcooling fan=a/c fan (relay).
Just in case u need it, here's where the wires connect from the timer, C130 and C 147, under-hood fusebox. btw the C130 connecter also carries a hot wire for the front hazards I think. Don't know if thats got anything to do with the light problem tho! Since the boards gonna be down sometime over the weekend I figured I'll get this upnow,before I forget! Hope u do well on ur exams!

-Steve

*edit* forget what I said about the two connectors!!! Your back hazards prove that C130 is plugged in ok! I'd check a White 20 pin connecter by the inside fusebox. do your rear tturn signals work too?

[smufguy]

Nothing works. Changed the diode, compressor relay, and sensors and everything. The power goes to the relay and relay is fine and every mofo works :mad: . but just the damn fan is not getting any fucking power. What damn fuck is wrong????? :rant: :mad: :burn: . I think i better give my car to my mechanic cause its just pissin me off. sorry guys, i am just sooooo pissed at myself right now


PS: I dorve my car with no hood or fender or bumers and with a broken front end around the township and everyone saw me like i was like a freak. hahaha, maybe i am. Every time i shifted, it sounded like i got a blowoff valve. Well its cause i got no intake or any kinda filter, its just an open throttle body. Man........ i love the view of the 3g, missed it for nearly a year. My car makes this squeaky scratchy noise. i guess its my springs. Gotta change it anyways.

[jigga225]

where is the module for controllin the fans??

I have an 87 Carb DX

[smufguy]

carbs dont have it. The controller is solely for the efi models and came standard from the 4th gen on. The controller runs the fan for 15mts after the engine has been shut off. So as u know a carb does not have it. All u carb dudes have is just a relays.

ALso the thing is, a carb car runs both the fans at the same time, but the efi can run the fans both at the same time, or one at a time.

[cruznz]

do you hear the relays work when you earth the sensor wire?

got your meter yet?

[smufguy]

hmmm thats a good question. u know what i did not try grounding the sensor wire. Got the meter, the wires came off the prongs. so i resoldered them and put a tape at the end so they wont move free. what kinda manufacture is this pos?? anywayz, i am gonna take a look at it tomorrow. I thought since i did not bolt the clutch relay and diode which are grounded only after u bolt em down, but later i did bolt them down. I gotta see if the relay would click if i ground the sensor wire, but the thing is, i shorted the sensor wires (both at radiator and thermostat) but seems like nothing is happening. i gotta see what the heck is wrong. i had to drive around the township with the heater on so i wont over heat, and yet i did over heat.