Replaced Drivers Drive shaft and won't move, advice greatly appreciated!!

[88Sleeper]

Hey Guys, I have a small problem that seems similar to the one another 3Geez'r seemed to have (symptoms-wise) but mine's probably different.

So the back-story is that the dust boot on the driveshaft was broken for around 4-5 years, and last couple of weeks it starting making loud "bangs" whenever I would make turns. So I figured I should replace it.

I got a new one from Napa, went through a lot of pain to get the old one out (cause it was a super-thick model) got the new one in there, made sure not to damage the transmission seal at all, so everything was good.

BUT, when I put the new one in, I got it in there by hand about half of the way. I figured that it was just me being weak/awkward position that I couldn't get it in there all the way. When I was sticking it in there, I made sure that the C-clip was centered as much as I could get it on the spline, since it wanted to hang down (and I didn't want it to get lodged on something). So, in order to get it "in-there" I used a small hand-hammer to hammer it in a little bit (until it didn't really move more) I was very light in doing this since it said not to use a hammer.

Ok, so I finished the job, put it back together, and it wasn't leaking, so I figured it was good. Drove it around town for a day, but was starting to get really nervous after I got 10 miles out from home, since whenever I would grab the transmission with the clutch in first gear (starting from a dead stop) it would make these "crack crack" or rattling noises. Not so much when I would shift from gear to gear.

I inspected it when I got home, and I noticed that I hadn't gotten the drive-shaft in all the way (I also called my dad and he said I needed to hear it click). I figured that I just needed to put it in there more, so I took the wheel off again, unscrewed the nut holding the nut to the bearing, and gave the shaft (made sure it was straight) a good solid whack with a bigger hammer. Visually inspected that it was seated in there all the way (and it was), so put back together again.

Pulled it out, did a small check that it wasn't making the noise, and sure enough, it almost didn't do it at all (but still a little, so was still concerned). Did a small burnout on the driveway (for a second or less), everything was holding good, and rolled out to the stop sign at the end of the street. I don't know if it makes any difference, but I turned the steering wheel to the right since I was making a right turn, and put the clutch down gently as I normally do (usually only 1100 rpm engagement)... and all I heard was a faint *crunch*... and that was it, won't move no matter what gear it's in....

Stuck my foot out and pedaled back a little bit, sure enough, huge growing puddle of oil, so I figured I killed the tranny.... Didn't help that my dad "just remembered" to remind me that I shouldn't have used a hammer until AFTER I had done it. He said that the C-clip must of have jammed on something, and I knocked a gear loose...

I already have the car up on stands, with the drive-shafts out, in the process of dropping the transmission. However, when I looked through the differential (which is where the drive-shaft splines end up after installation, I think, based on the service manual) I can see those gears spinning when the motor is running. However, when I put it into a gear other than 5 they just spin the same speed. When I put it in 5, it spins noticeably faster. I also noticed that on the Drive shaft spline going into the transmission, that the thin row of splines at the very end after the C-clip appear to have been rounded down, but if they were, it wasn't by a whole lot, since I can still feel the grooves there (like they may have been shaved 1mm or so?)

I would really appreciate any advice you guys have about this, or what I can do? Never had to deal with a broken transmission, but my own conclusion is that I ruined something in the differential, so I am planning on pulling it out/inspecting it and the other gears, and replacing it?

Thanks,
-Dominic

*Edit -> Forgot to mention, but when I was taking the drivers shaft out again, I noticed that it seemed to have been shoved out of the transmission, hence the puddle of oil. The housing doesn't have any cracks that I can see, and there were marks showing it had run out of the transmission in that spot again. Also, when I had hammered it in there the second time, I had noticed that there was really a lot of play in the drive shaft, I could pull/push it in/out a good half inch in the least. The passenger side shaft has little play, maybe 2-3 mm? Dunno if that makes a difference?? *

[Hauntd ca3]

i'd say , by the sounds of what you are describing, that when you put the shaft back in, you didnt get it in all the way and you have damaged either the splines in the diff or the splines on the shaft.
pull the shaft back out and take the clip off the end.
slide it into the diff and see how it feels.
it should slide in easily but with out much slop, very little slop actually.
inspect the splines on the shaft , they should be nice and uniform in shape the whole length of the spline.
get your head in there and inspect the splines in the diff as well. you dont want to see any damage.

[Dr_Snooz]

The car has an open diff. If one axle falls out of the diff, the car won't move. Your transmission is probably fine. The end play you noticed is normal. You just need to figure out why the axle isn't seating. If you can't slide it in by hand, a hammer isn't going to help you. Also, the retaining circlips can get compressed and not seat properly over time. It helps to stretch them out a little before re-installing.

[88Sleeper]

Hi Haunted & Dr_Snooz,

I apologize for resurrecting an old thread, but I just got a chance to work on this some more now that the winter is over and I was able to get my car into the garage to work on it (working on the gravel strip next to the house was duuuumb... Not only did the car sink on the stand ~3 inches into the ground, but it was just not working out at ALL!! =\

Anyways, I pulled my transmission out, mainly to get a better look at it, and since I figured I could replace my clutch at the same time (it's been grabbing at the very very end for the last 2 years and I figured I could do 2 things at once.

I think you guys might be both right about the driveshaft though. I looked at the transmission, and I don't see anything that would make me think it's bad.
Before I took it out, I put both shafts back in, and tried to seat them all the way, I saw that both shafts went into the driveshaft all the way to the rubber seal, and were flush against it, so I'm pretty sure they were seated in the splines. The car still didn't hold both shafts when it was in gear. I could just roll it down the driveway with them in place, so I assumed the differential was damaged.

Fast forward to today, I have my transmission out, but when I play with it, it seems to be fine. I even put the one end of the driveshaft I replaced back in, to see if it would spin the passenger side tranny spline when I imitated an "open differential" and it worked the way it should...?

But Hauntd ca3 is also right about the driveshaft being damaged. The new one I put in (drivers side) has the splines on the very end stripped off, but the rest of the splines after the clip (the big chunk) are totally fine.
Now I'm confused, since I can see that I stripped them, and the driveshaft basically got thrown out of the transmission... But I would of have assumed that since I put it in all the way, it was holding onto the whole set of splines, not just the tip???

I've seen a local transmission shop around here, and I am thinking of bringing them the transmission and ask them if they have an off-the-car dyno or something that they can test the transmission with...
Would that be a good idea?

Would it be possible that the driveshaft I got was somehow out of spec from the get-go?

Greatly appreaciate your input!

[88Sleeper]

I also forgot, but the clip on the driver side driveshaft seems to be relatively thick, thicker than the one on the passengers side, and I actually have a hard time just compressing it by hand. It does seems to be a bit wide, but not too much, so I'm wondering if it was preventing the shaft from sliding in all the way once it hit the first 'recess' before the splines in the transmission?? I kind of doubt it since it wouldn't have gone in to the rubber boot otherwise, so maybe it's still too shallow to hold it in perhaps, and then it must have slide out in the mile I drove the stop sign, and then I tore the splines on the end, causing the driveshaft to get ejected the rest of the way out of the tranny??

It seems plausible in my head, considering that a "driveshaft popping out" isn't exactly unique or rare... but I'm wondering if it's worth putting the tranny and shaft back on to "seat it better" when I already tried that, and the tranny didn't hold anything worth a hoot when it was locked in gear?

[Dr_Snooz]

I wonder if they gave you the wrong driveshaft. Someone can correct me on this, but the driveshafts on a MT car are different lengths than on an AT. If you put a MT shaft in an AT car, it will pop out when you turn a corner, or vice versa. If you still have the old shaft around, check the new one against it to be sure they are the same dimensions.

[88Sleeper]

Darn, that is a very good suggestion, but my dad took it to the scrap yard in December :banghead:

I am figuring that you are probably right though. When I put the new one in, and hammered it all the way into the differential, the end of the shaft (in wheel) was flush with the outer end of the splines. I had to reach behind and grab the shaft, and pull it out to me just to get the axle nut started on the threads for it. It would also explain why the shaft got ejected from the differential when the cerclip let it go. I usually turn the wheel a half turn (it's upside down) when I stop for a right turn intersection, so probably that angle was enough to strain the shaft to come out, and it did with the weak clip...

I am rather unhappy with my dad's advice at the moment. He was so sure that I "crashed the gears" inside the transmission that I went ahead and disassembled the transmission... :facepalm:
Aside from learning that the interior of my tranny looks like it's mint, I saw that in order to come even remotely close to "crashing" the gears in the diff, I'd prbobaly need a pneumatic jack hammer to do that...
Of course, the honda dealer also doesn't supply the gaskets (or anything else) for the transmission, so now I'm probably going to have to make them...

Has anyone had any experience with this, or can recommend where I can find a gasket set? I have some "gasket material" that we have lying around for making differential gaskets for semi rear-ends, but It's way thick for the housing...
Yes, I feel like kicking myself for opening it too... :uh:

Thanks!
-Dominic

[Dr_Snooz]

Just use silicone gasket maker. It will work great for sealing the housing pieces together. Alternatively, you can find a tranny parts shop and they can order one, or give you a kit with gaskets in it. Are you going to replace the syncros while you have it apart?

[88Sleeper]

I wasn't planning on it...

All of the gears and bearings look good inside. Would there be a reason to replace them?

I know from before that my 3rd gear synchro is a little "loose" but that was after I one time shifted into 3rd, and engaged the gear without having it in all the way, but when I looked at them (the golden coggy gears between the actual gears, or so I think) they didn't have any mangling or cuts in them?

I'm thinking about doing an engine swap in the future, so I'm trying not to replace too many things unnecessarily, just so that the transmission outlasts the motor is all. I went out and got a set of the transaxle seals, so I replaced those since I'd rather not find out they leak once I have it back in there....

Thanks for your advice so far, I really appreciate it! =]

[Dr_Snooz]

The only reason would be for preventive maintenance and because you've already done the hardest work by pulling it out. Now would be a good time to pull it all apart, clean it up, check all tolerances and the condition of all bearings. If you're not having any trouble with it and are planning to junk it anyway, then let it be.

[cygnus x-1]

There are rebuild kits available but they aren't especially cheap.

Standard Transmission Bearing Kits (http://allstategear.com/allstate/productsearch.aspx?PageNo=2)

Best bet is to use an RTV gasket maker or something like Hylomar universal blue.

C|

[88Sleeper]

Hi Cyngus,

Thanks, that is actually a really helpful link. I had already assumed nobody offered anything :\

I've already reassembled the entire car, otherwise I would have gone with it. Everything works now, and I have a new clutch for all my trouble =]

I had to buy yet another drivers Drive shaft since my dad wanted to put it in this time himself, and ended up pulling the inner CV joint apart while playing with it. *Sigh*

However, now I have a new problem, not sure if I should open a new thread?

The car started on the second crank. Amazingly the battery still had enough charge in it to pull the started after sitting for ~8 months.
The problem is, that aside form the horrendous clouds of CO that set off all of my CO alarms in the house, the car didn't want to stay on...

In fact, it barely ran when I was nursing it gas on the cold idle, but when I put my foot in it, it just died, like it ran out of fuel...
When it was running, it felt like it was firing really poorly.

Would I need to check the timing after replacing the clutch? I wouldn't think that changing the mass on the end of the flywheel would have an adverse affect on timing, but the only other thing I would suspect is stale fuel corroding my fuel supply system... and that would suck big time. Stale unleaded fuel 'can cause problems for classic cars' warns Mike Williams Restorations (http://boxscorenews.com/stale-unleaded-fuel-can-cause-problems-for-classic-cars-warns-mike-willi-p60248-68.htm)

[cygnus x-1]

It might not be a bad idea to drain the fuel tank and put fresh fuel in. It's also possible the choke linkages have gotten sticky and are acting up. Take off the air cleaner lid and see if the choke plate is closed when you do a cold start.

C|

[88Sleeper]

My apologies for the late reply. My team and I have been getting hosed at work, so we're always short on time =\

Quick update, but I assumed that there was junk in the tank, and the carb was dirty, so my "quick-fix" was to run a bottle of Berryman's B-12 ChemTool through the remaining half of the tank.
Since it contains acetone, MEK, toluene, and something else, I figured it would remove the water, and clean the carb up, since it's excellent for dislodging gunk on carbs that have been sitting for a long time (10+ years on my Honda pressure washer =D )
It also claims to clean your catalytic converter out, which I assume is due to higher exhaust temps? (that's my best guess, if anyone knows better, please correct me)

Once it started to suck that into the engine, it instantly started running fine, it was idling at 1150 rpm (eyeballed) instead of the 1000 I have it set to. Worked just like normal.... Until I had to refill the tank, that is.

Since the B-12 Chemtool is also really hard on rubber lines, etc. I tried to burn it out as fast I could (7 days) and refilled the tank with 14 gallons of non-ethanol fuel + 6 oz. of Lucas Upper Cylinder lube (figured it would be a nice change from harsh detergents). I run the car while I fill up, and noticed while I was pumping that the idle went down. When I got back in, it had settled back to 1000 rpm. Thought: "Well, this is a summer blend instead of the winter blend I had, and the extra volatiles in the Chemtool got watered down". Got home, everything fine.

Next morning, turned it on, ran ok for about 20 seconds, then the cold idle went from 1500 ->500 (choking) (my car starts idling at 1500 then builds up to 2500, etc.)
Had to hold my foot in it to keep it running. When the temp gauge started going up, it was still bad....

Since my brother took my only other car, I ended up having to drive it to work, but it's a PITA to have to hold the gas in the whole way to keep it from dying...
Then there was the horrendous pollution it would make when it was stopped. When it runs rough like this, I'm pretty sure my Cat can barely convert 20% of the crap being made. Wasn't smoking, so that's a plus, but good lord is it nauseous when the blower sucks it in.

I'm guessing the passages in my carb are chocked full of crap somewhere, or else the idle choke plunger switch on the back got corroded and isn't opening... but that doesn't explain why it was running and why it quit once I put regular gas in.

I'll probably replace the fuel filters, but I just replaced them last year, so unless they have water sitting in them again all of a sudden, I don't see how this would affect fuel delivery again.
The only reason I suspect them is because it feels like the motor is starving for fuel when I punch it too sharply, or if I'm not pushing it in hard enough (highway sure was fun @ the beginning, lol)

Here I was thinking this thing wouldn't give me any trouble until I finished with the Odyssey, but so much for that idea -_-'

[lostforawhile]

I wonder if they gave you the wrong driveshaft. Someone can correct me on this, but the driveshafts on a MT car are different lengths than on an AT. If you put a MT shaft in an AT car, it will pop out when you turn a corner, or vice versa. If you still have the old shaft around, check the new one against it to be sure they are the same dimensions.

I went through the same thing, Nappa kept trying to sell me the wrong shaft, the manual one looks a lot bigger as far as the shaft, it's really a hollow shaft, vs the auto which looks like a piece of rod, they kept arguing with me until I brought the old one up there