replacing of oil filter base gasket

[derolph]

I believe this may be a source, among others, of a leak on my 88 Accord. Just wondering what is the best approach to replacing the gasket. Can it be done from either underneath the car or from above by removing air intake box to make some space? If it has to be from under the car, can it be done without removing the half axle?

Any suggestions on where to buy these gaskets?

11/22/13: edited to correct one word in 2nd sentence.

[mint89]

Hello derolph

I did mines from under the car, but it was a chore. I couldn't see far anough up under the car so it was feeling only. I removed the oil filter and sender connection and remove the bolts. I also replaced the sender since I was there already. tried an after market sender but it failed after a month or two. replace it with a honda one and the oil light went out and everything was back to normal. if you still see a leak then it might be the short hose leading off from the oil pan. that one is a nightmare to get off and replace.

[niles]

I replaced mine from the top and it was also difficult lol, but at least I could see. This was best for me since my airbox is already off. The sensor is the worst part of it all. I had to use a mirror to help me see while I cleaned the block and to put the bolts back in.

I think stuggling with it is still easier than taking off the entire intake manifold...

[Dr_Snooz]

Definitely attack that one from the top after removing the air box. Working under the car will be a mess and impossible to see.

[HelpMeHonda]

Definitely attack that one from the top after removing the air box. Working under the car will be a mess and impossible to see.

Nah, just get a stubby light. Amazon.com: General Manufacturing 3613-3500 Stubby II Light with 40 ft. Reel: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/General-Manufacturing-3613-3500-Stubby-Light/dp/B000P70S32)

All you need.

[Dr_Snooz]

Nah, just get a stubby light. Amazon.com: General Manufacturing 3613-3500 Stubby II Light with 40 ft. Reel: Automotive (http://www.amazon.com/General-Manufacturing-3613-3500-Stubby-Light/dp/B000P70S32)

All you need.

That light isn't going to help you see through the axle shaft that lies directly under the oil filter base.

[2oodoor]

I guess if you have a car lift, going from the bottom isn't as bad but otherwise no elbow room.

[vteckiller]

Might be a little late. But do it from the top. Takes like 10-20min. Just take off the stock air box if you have one. Drop the alternator from just the top bolt. And slide it down or back. Just move it lol. Then remove your oil filter, and the oil sending unit. Just remove it now makes it easier. There's 3"10mm bolts I believe. Just use a socket with extension. Its very visible where the bolts are just by looking from between the firewall and the intake. And viola. After the 3 bolts are remove there ya have it. A rock hard leaky gasket. Your local Honda dealer should have them. Remember to not over tighten the mount cause its aluminum. And it WILL crack. And when you put that sending unit back in. Same deal. Don't over tighten it WILL crack. A d you WILL be buying a new base mount. Not hard to find just dumb mistakes made while work with aluminum. I learned and made my mistake once. Bought a snap on torque wrench a day later. With that being said if you do it from the top. Its an easy 15min job

[1989accordaz]

I am doing mine this weekend, and will use your tips and try from the top. For some reason I have been postponing this one. I will use new bolts though, don't want to run into breaking a bolt.

[derolph]

Thanks to everyone for the comments. I will definitely start from the top and see how it goes.

[derolph]

Did you guys use a torque wrench when tightening the bolts to reinstall the housing/base? I found a specification of 9 ft-lbs in a Haynes manual. I don't have a torque wrench that is accurate at small torque specs.

[1989accordaz]

Ideally you would want to torque to spec, but if you don't have one, I would suggest to tighten them in equal increments. For what I understand, the housing is sensitive to over torque and can crack if too tight. If you have a harbor freight nearby, you can pick a torque wrench from 5 to 80 ft-lbs for 12 bucks. Just so you can have a piece of mind. If you can, use new bolts.

[derolph]

I have the base mount off now but have not been able to get the gasket off the engine block yet. I've been trying to pry at it with a utility knife but no luck yet. I was wondering whether some solvent such as mineral spirits or WD40 might help loosen it.

[1989accordaz]

Try soaking it in WD40, PB Blaster or even mineral spirits. Just whatever you use to scrap it, just be careful so it doesn't gouge the surface of the block. A small steel pick may work too, I would just dull the tip.

[derolph]

Well, I used wood chisel to break it loose. The old gasket broke into about 6 pieces before I got all of it off. I was concerned about gouging the block. It seems to be OK.

Another concern is getting crude into the crankcase through the holes during all this blindly working on a dirty area.

[derolph]

Its an easy 15min jobThis is probably the greatest case of exaggeration I have ever heard.

[2oodoor]

I agree, now if tbe motor was out or you had the hood and the intake manifold off it could maybe take 15 min.
There , another suggested method, on topic.:wave:

[derolph]

Is replacement of the sender worth doing if no issues are evident regarding the sender? I gather the sender is the oil pressure sensor. What signs would indicate replacement is needed?

[Dr_Snooz]

No need to replace the sender. It doesn't do anything anyway. The standard oil light only comes on at some ridiculously low pressure like 3 psi. Your time and energy would be much better spent installing a proper oil pressure gauge. I burned up my last engine without ever seeing a light. :(

It's best not to attack the old gasket with anything sharp. Don't use any solvents that might dribble down into the oil pan either. A gasket scraper is a good investment here and even a standard putty knife will do the job well enough.

[derolph]

The gasket replacement seems to be a success. The oil burn smell from oil dripping on the exhaust has stopped. I still have leaks and have more detective work to identify them but replacing the oil filter stand gasket was definitely worthwhile.


It's best not to attack the old gasket with anything sharp. ... A gasket scraper is a good investment here and even a standard putty knife will do the job well enough.The wood chisel worked for me. Although it is sharp, I did not jab or poke at the gasket; I carefully used more of a scraping or prying technique to get the old gasket off. And, the length of the chisel made the job easier, I believe, than a shorter-handled tool. After getting the gasket off and cleaning the base, I ran my finger over it to search for any indentations or deep scratches from removing the gasket and found none; it was smooth.

[suite420]

I did mine from the top in one hour without changing the sender..........still leaked. so I picked up a sender just to be sure and took it apart again cleaned everything again (solvent and scotch bright pad) re-assembled and good to go 1.5 hours. there is an old joke around the shop.....no time to do it right but there is time to do it twice lol

[lostforawhile]

No need to replace the sender. It doesn't do anything anyway. The standard oil light only comes on at some ridiculously low pressure like 3 psi. Your time and energy would be much better spent installing a proper oil pressure gauge. I burned up my last engine without ever seeing a light. :(

It's best not to attack the old gasket with anything sharp. Don't use any solvents that might dribble down into the oil pan either. A gasket scraper is a good investment here and even a standard putty knife will do the job well enough.
what are we scraping off here? the oil filter base gasket is a special O ring gasket. nothing to scrape it should come right off

[Dr_Snooz]

I have the base mount off now but have not been able to get the gasket off the engine block yet. I've been trying to pry at it with a utility knife but no luck yet. I was wondering whether some solvent such as mineral spirits or WD40 might help loosen it.


what are we scraping off here? the oil filter base gasket is a special O ring gasket. nothing to scrape it should come right off

@ lostforawhile: Here's the post to which I was replying. Honestly, I don't know what the difficulty was. :dunno: It seemed to be a greater undertaking than an oring should warrant, but a struggle it was. I don't know why. I just didn't want him dumping a bunch of solvent into his oil pan or destroying the sealing surface on the block.

[gyates93]

I had access to a lift when I replaced mine, I had to take the sensor out from the top but got the housing out from the bottom. It was a pain but I managed to get it replaced in a couple hours. There was very little room to turn any tools up there, and the axle was right in the way. It did stop the leak though, so I guess it was worth it!

[lostforawhile]

@ lostforawhile: Here's the post to which I was replying. Honestly, I don't know what the difficulty was. :dunno: It seemed to be a greater undertaking than an oring should warrant, but a struggle it was. I don't know why. I just didn't want him dumping a bunch of solvent into his oil pan or destroying the sealing surface on the block.

that's weird that it stuck that bad, maby it overheated at one point or something, I've never seen one stick, take out the bolts,if needed tap it with a rubber hammer to dislodge it.

[88Accord-DX]

Reminds me I made a how to on this... http://www.3geez.com/forum/how/58672-replace-oil-filter-base-gasket.html

[derolph]

what are we scraping off here? the oil filter base gasket is a special O ring gasket. nothing to scrape it should come right offWell, the old gasket simply did not "come right off". I don't think that should be hard to understand. Look, we're talking about removing a gasket on a part that has never before been removed on a 25 year old car. The old gasket was hard and brittle and part of it stuck to the engine block rather than come off with the old filter stand.

[lostforawhile]

Well, the old gasket simply did not "come right off". I don't think that should be hard to understand. Look, we're talking about removing a gasket on a part that has never before been removed on a 25 year old car. The old gasket was hard and brittle and part of it stuck to the engine block rather than come off with the old filter stand.

it's not really a gasket, it's made of the same material as an O ring. Make sure you torque the bolts holding the filter base correctly,I've pulled a number of filter bases for members on here,at the yards, and I've yet to have one stick, if it does, use some red scotchbrite, it should come off easy, and any material left, that gets in the oil galley, will just disintegrate

[gp02a0083]

the O-ring acts as a gasket... O-rings typically used when your dealing with some kind of pressure system like hydraulics. Some designs, if made right, seal better at higher pressures with an o-ring. Preferred tool for removing the o-ring gasket is a plastic scraper. Never use scotch bright pads (hand pads or roloc air grinder type), unless you like to have aluminum oxide everywhere. The 3m roloc bristle discs cleans the mating surfaces quick without harming the metal (base housing is aluminum) is the best to use and has less debris to clean up. GM had a service recall back in 98' highly suggesting the use of the bristle discs. In addition Ford back around 92 started telling it's techs to stop using the scotch bright stuff as well.

[derolph]

it's not really a gasket, it's made of the same material as an O ring. Make sure you torque the bolts holding the filter base correctly,I've pulled a number of filter bases for members on here,at the yards, and I've yet to have one stick, if it does, use some red scotchbrite, it should come off easy, and any material left, that gets in the oil galley, will just disintegrateThe seller from whom I bought the part labeled it an "Oil Filter Stand Gasket". In this particular application, I think "gasket" makes sense. Regarding torquing, I asked about that early in this discussion and, based on advise received, decided not to worry about not using a torque wrench. Also, I can't imagine using scotchbrite for removal of gasket that stuck to the engine. I'm satisfied with the method I used to remove it; as explained early in this discussion, I carefully used a wood chisel to pop off pieces of the brittle gasket until all was removed. Using scotchbrite would have been practically impossible in the cramped space and not very effective; we're talking about removing not just some residue from a fibrous type of gasket but whole sections of the o-ring-type-material gasket that stuck to the engine.

[lostforawhile]

The seller from whom I bought the part labeled it an "Oil Filter Stand Gasket". In this particular application, I think "gasket" makes sense. Regarding torquing, I asked about that early in this discussion and, based on advise received, decided not to worry about not using a torque wrench. Also, I can't imagine using scotchbrite for removal of gasket that stuck to the engine. I'm satisfied with the method I used to remove it; as explained early in this discussion, I carefully used a wood chisel to pop off pieces of the brittle gasket until all was removed. Using scotchbrite would have been practically impossible in the cramped space and not very effective; we're talking about removing not just some residue from a fibrous type of gasket but whole sections of the o-ring-type-material gasket that stuck to the engine.
I use red scotchbrite all the time, it's excellent for cleaning up different metals nice and shiny, you just cut off a little square and keep working on it,until it comes off, you can also get some good gasket dissolving spray from Nappa, I like their brand, soak the gasket then scrub at it, it softens it up a lot, I forgot to mention, while the filter base is off, take out the big hex key, and clean the pressure relief valve, and check it for scoring, sometimes crud gets in the bore, be careful because it's spring loaded, use locktite when you put the hex screw back in

[gp02a0083]

i'll still keep to the bristle discs and away from the red scotch bright pads for my Oldsmobile and rotary engine builds. I've seen too many novice rotary builders use scotch bright pads and they wonder why the oil and apex seals don't seal correctly. My buddy was a jet / helicopter mechanic and now works on rockets, never allowed to use scotch bright when working with any internals. Bearing surfaces end up scored after a good loading due to the aluminum oxide left behind. I go the cheap way and use IPA / MEK / or brake cleaner to clean any gasket mating surfaces it effectively clean the surface and remove any oily contaminants

[derolph]

I use red scotchbrite all the time, it's excellent for cleaning up different metals nice and shiny, you just cut off a little square and keep working on it,until it comes off, you can also get some good gasket dissolving spray from Nappa, I like their brand, soak the gasket then scrub at it, it softens it up a lot, I forgot to mention, while the filter base is off, take out the big hex key, and clean the pressure relief valve, and check it for scoring, sometimes crud gets in the bore, be careful because it's spring loaded, use locktite when you put the hex screw back inFor a flat gasket like one shown in the attached photo, that makes some sense. This type of gasket often does not come off clean when an old one is removed. But, for the oil stand "gasket", which is made from a different material, I still can't see using a scotchbrite pad.

[Trent Von]

>86' Honda Accord LXi
Getting back to the original question of getting at it from the TOP or from the BOTTOM, I'm gonna try the "top down" approach this week....
An earlier post from vteckiller suggested rotating/moving the alternator out of the way along with moving the air filter out of the way
.......so I can assume that you would be working from the drivers side down the firewall.
Any other tips to make this a bit less painful?

>>Project History.... Replaced oil pan gasket last week, while inspecting the area I found no evidence of oil around the clutch area or front pulley area (all dry). After I cleaned and replaced the oil pan and surrounding areas I noticed oil dripping from underneath the "oil filter area", as well as some making it's way to the exhaust pipe (a bit smoky).
Everything from above oil filter seems dry.

[Oldblueaccord]

>86' Honda Accord LXi
Getting back to the original question of getting at it from the TOP or from the BOTTOM, I'm gonna try the "top down" approach this week....
An earlier post from vteckiller suggested rotating/moving the alternator out of the way along with moving the air filter out of the way
.......so I can assume that you would be working from the drivers side down the firewall.
Any other tips to make this a bit less painful?

>>Project History.... Replaced oil pan gasket last week, while inspecting the area I found no evidence of oil around the clutch area or front pulley area (all dry). After I cleaned and replaced the oil pan and surrounding areas I noticed oil dripping from underneath the "oil filter area", as well as some making it's way to the exhaust pipe (a bit smoky).
Everything from above oil filter seems dry.

Old car its worth changing. I did mine from top as well removing the whole air box mess and peeking thru the intake runners you should be fine. I think I got some pictures under my name someplace.

Also that large hose that goes from the box to the oil pan on the back of the motor wouldnt hurt to double clamps that old stiff bastard too.

[Trent Von]

Wow, that went way better than I thought it would. Once that air cleaner is cleared out of the way, there's more than enough room to reach in.

>One tip, the oil pressure sending unit can be easily unscrewed (after you pull the wire) by fitting a socket to the top of the sensor. Then thread a extension through the intake manifold to the socket. It's at an angle, so you'll have to use a swivel. Once you get that all set up you'll have all the leverage you need to get that sensor out...... then everything else easy peasy.

>>A drop light is helpful positioned against the firewall facing toward the oil filter area. A mirror can be useful, however, you can see most everything right over the top of the engine.... just look between the ports of the intake manifold.

Super easy, just remember.... take your time and enjoy it.