Last thing keeping my car off the road

[go2eleven]

Hokay, so, here we go.

88 DX stock. Fast idle idles high, like 3-4k rpm. Unloads fine when the temp comes up and the fans kick on, but then the idle drops down too low and the car dies. Also dies as soon as it is put in gear, whether the fast idle has unloaded or not. Pretty sure there isn't a vacuum leak anywhere outside the carburetor. Don't know if the screws just need adjustment (never had them in the right position, previous owner fiddled around with them), or if the carb needs rebuilding. I've tested pretty much all the vacuum switches and things. Found lots of problems in the past, but I've fixed them all and I'm running out of ideas.

[Dr_Snooz]

Don't know if the screws just need adjustment (never had them in the right position, previous owner fiddled around with them)

Not sure what screws you're talking about, but if you mean the idle mixture screws, then yes, that could cause your problem. They control the air/fuel mixture at idle only. If you're excessively lean or rich, it could cause stalling. You might want to spend some time correcting that. The manual outlines a procedure using "propane enrichment" (whatever that is), or you could just use your nose to tell you when it's right. Too rich will smell like raw gas. Too lean will smell equally foul, but in a different way. Just right will be the least offensive odor. Sounds crazy but it works well enough to get you through California smog tests. LOL

[go2eleven]

Yeah, I've read through that idle adjustment procedure with the "propane enrichment" like 8 times. It seems the Honda tech is supposed to have a tool that sprays in a precise amount of propane for one tiny check in the procedure.

The problem I'm having is that it won't run at regular idle. The procedure calls for letting it run until the fast idle disengages, but mine stalls when the fast idle disengages. Does the Dr_Snooz smell test work at fast idle as well as regular? If so, I can try to set the mixture screws (those were indeed the ones I was talking about) that way. If not, I can try to fiddle with them until it won't stall.

[Jafir]

If you're oxygen sensor works, you can adjust idle mixture by adjusting until you see the volts fluctuate from rich to lean, back and forth at idle.

[go2eleven]

Lol, Jafir, like a super high tech version of the Dr_Snooz smell test! Not a bad idea - I need to see if it is working anyway. I have a replacement, but haven't been able to get around to changing it. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of time to work on it, and it seems like lately every chance I do have ends up getting rained out. Maybe on Thanksgiving....

[g.frost]

Check the Primary Slow Mixture Cut-off Valve; that it is getting a signal and is opening.

[go2eleven]

The cut-off valve is definitely working. It is one of the several things I fixed a few months ago.

[go2eleven]

So I found a carb at the salvage yard on half price weekend. Gotta get a new gasket for it to mount on the efe heater. I will see if it runs bet with this one. Maybe I will try to rebuild the other one later.

Also this car hada gold valve cover on it. I don't have picture right now, but it looks just like a normal a20 carb valve cover except that it is gold, and it has a Honda badge that bolts on rather than looking like a sticker. The engine id stamp was covered in oil and grime, but when I scraped it off, it looked like it said "BS". Any idea what this might have come out of?

[HLW]

The engine id stamp was covered in oil and grime, but when I scraped it off, it looked like it said "BS". Any idea what this might have come out of?
In 86 and 87 the Accord engines were stamped BS for carb and BT for FI. The BS is the A20A1/A20A2. The BT was the A20A3/A20A4. Depending on when your 88 was built, it might be the original, but it is probably a replacement from an 86 or 87 Accord.

[go2eleven]

Ah okay. This was out of the junkyard car, but it was an 89. Mystery solved then. Still wondering what the valve cover was off of.

[go2eleven]

So here are a couple pics of the valve cover and the carburetor I got. Weather and illness have prevented any attempt to install them but I'm hoping I will have time this weekend. Anyone have any idea on the valve cover. Never seen one like it. Kinda wondering if someone didn't just put it together themselves somehow.

[Jafir]

Valve cover looks normal to me.

[HLW]

The valve cover is the exact same as was on my 86 DX. That is the valve cover from the BS engine.

[go2eleven]

Oh, okay. Didn't realize they changed designs with the branding. The one on my 88 DX has a metallic sticker in place instead, and its all creased and coming off. I like the plate /much/ better. Thanks for the information.

[go2eleven]

Update: Changed the carburetor over and now the car starts and stays started! Yay! At first it would stall after about 20 seconds, but then I realized I forgot to plug in the choke heater. That cured the stalling problem. Now it just misfires. I changed spark plugs, because the old ones were super fouled from all the problems I was having before. That helped a little, but it is still misfiring. Haven't had a chance yet, but I will check the secondary diaphragm when next I have a chance. Also haven't checked the timing since I got the car, so that's on the list too. The rest of the ignition system is new, aside from the distributor internals. Feeling pretty good; that much closer.

[go2eleven]

Update again: Checked the secondary diaphragm and it works fine. So I changed the back fuel filter when I realized I hadn't changed it since I had the car. After I changed that, the car started after a couple tries, revved up for the fast idle (without a misfire), then bogged down, with no power, and finally stalled. I started it again and jumped out to check the carb, and got to it just as it stalled again. There was a fountain of gas shooting into it, and it was filled to the brim with gas. Nothing in the manual seems to point toward that being an issue at all, so - what gives?

[Jafir]

There was a recall on some carbs for the floats not floating, but I thought it was 85 and older.

[VIPER1988]

I would pull the bowl and check the float. Make sure it moves without any resistance. Also, put a can of seafoam in the gas.

[Dr_Snooz]

Sounds like either a leaky needle valve or a stuck/sunken float = full carb overhaul.

[go2eleven]

Well, the problem went away. I think I had the fuel filter on backwards. Didn't see a flow marker on it when I installed it. Now it is doing the same thing it was doing before I changed the filter. Rough, fluctuating idle, seems like it's misfiring. Smoke from the exhaust (but not coolant or oil burning). Extended combing through the manual points again towards Frequency Solenoid Valve C, so I test it. It's bad, the second test won't hold vacuum like it's supposed to. My normal junkyard doesn't have any with one of these right now, so I'll have to scour the city. Unless anyone has one they are sure functions and they'd like to send to me :P

[go2eleven]

Here's a thought: is it possible to bypass the frequency solenoid valve c? Could I just the vacuum line from the vacuum manifold that goes to the solenoid valve and directly connect it to the throttle controller? Maybe I will try that tomorrow and find out....

[Buzo]

Here's a thought: is it possible to bypass the frequency solenoid valve c? Could I just the vacuum line from the vacuum manifold that goes to the solenoid valve and directly connect it to the throttle controller? Maybe I will try that tomorrow and find out....

It will partially work, because with engine off the actuator will be extended opening the throttle a bit like ready for cranking, but as soon as the engine fires up and vacuum is built up, it will retract all the way staying out of the play until the next start up.

Instead of bypassing it, have you tried to properly move the adjusting screw? Wait for the car to fully warm up, let the choke to disengage and then adjust it to your desired idle speed.

[go2eleven]

Well the solenoid is bad. The problem is that when the engine warms up, the car stalls and won't start again until it's cooled off. Until that time, the idle is rough. I will fiddle with it today or tomorrow. Thanks.

[Buzo]

There are other ways to keep the car idling. There is this screw in the back, between the choke and the carb itself that looks like a plastic 8-teeth gear that controls the minimum idle speed. A picture of the back of your spare carb may help to point you to the right controls.

[go2eleven]

Ah, I didn't realize that the idle adjustment would be able to mask the negative effects of the solenoid valve not working. A question then concerning the adjustment screw: the manual is unclear which way is supposed to do what. What I mean is does turning the screw clockwise make the idle go up, and counterclockwise makes the idle speed drop, or is it the other way around? My last carb seemedlike the idle speed stayed the same no matter what I did with that screw....

[Buzo]

Well, play & learn from your spare carb. This screw is really hard to reach in the car, so take your time!
There are several other actuators that mess with the throttle, but this one is the key to keep the car running. Assuming the fuel side is OK, of course.
The other ones are just to "enhance" the performance and we can explain you what they are for, if interested.

[go2eleven]

So its still doing the fuel dumping thing, so it's time for a rebuild instead. Not nearly as difficult as everyone made it out to be. I'm just finishing putting things back together. Any tips for when I first start it up? Is there anything special I should do?

[Dr_Snooz]

Any tips for when I first start it up? Is there anything special I should do?

You rebuild the carb? Just pray. LOL

[Hazwan]

I would cycle the key to ON and ACC a couple of times to prime fuel pump to fill the fuel bowl but thats about it. Just pray xD

But I agreed with the rebuild being pretty easy provided that you know what you're doing and know how things work.

[go2eleven]

Hah! So the replacement carb had never been rebuilt. The original carb had. Poorly. A tab was broken off the float, not to mention that the ear holding the pin on which the float pivots had been broken off also and then epoxy'd back on. The replacement was clean on the outside and worn on the inside. Definitely needed a rebuild. But now is all done. Just have to mount it back on the car, probably on Thursday. I'll keep my fingers and toes crossed. Thanks for you guy's support. Hopefully soon I can stop bitching about this thing and actually drive it.