brakes went out

[86accordlxi-fi]

Man, yesterday, my brakes went out on my 3gen 4dr accord, im so pissed off, i was parking my car at my house, and the pedal went to the floor and the car wouldnt stop, i pulled the e-brake, and it slowly stopped, then when i looked at the car, brake fluid was running down the inside of the front driver-side tire, anyone know where the leak could possibly be coming from? please help if you can

[Greg]

If it's front, driver's side tire, I would say it's probably the hose that goes to your front left caliper. But it could be a blown caliper seal or loose bleeder or something.

I have never seen any of the above on a 3G. I fixed some old leaky break hoses on the rear of a 2G once.

Did anyone do works on the breaks recently? Anyone loosen the bleeder?

Also, if your rotor is very thin for some reason and your pads are almost wiped, your caliper piston may have come out too far, and fluid might be leaking past the seal.

What I'd do is get some brake cleaner spray, jack up the front, clean everything around there, pour some brake fluid in the master reservoir, and have someone step on the brake while you look around that wheel.

Look at the master and brake booster too!

[86accordlxi-fi]

i do have a hole in the brake booster, but would that cause a fluid leak.

[AZmike]

Originally posted by 86accordlxi-fi
i do have a hole in the brake booster, but would that cause a fluid leak.

No, there is no fluid in the booster. It just uses the engine's vacuum to help you push the master clyinder piston in when you step on the brakes.

If there is brake fluid on your booster it leaked out of your master cylinder. A rebuilt one runs about $60 and isn't too bad to install.

[markmdz89hatch]

yeah, not too bad at all... ...but can't you just buy a rebuild kit that consists of the new plunger and seals and rebuild ur existing? I never did it, or looked into it, but someone mentioned that to me years ago when I thought it was my master.

Other then that, I'd inspect the hoses like Greg said. Those will only run you about 20bux @ at majestic. BTW... ...Greg it's kool to see yet another guy who knows his mechanics to help out the "less-knowledgeable" such as myself. Thanks.

[AZmike]

I tried finding a rebuild kit when mine had a slow leak. They're just not available anymore, at least for cars like ours.

Now that I think about it, the problem has to be your master cylinder. The brake system is divided diagonally. If it was the line that failed you would still have the other front brake and same side rear brake working correctly.

[86accordlxi-fi]

how much would a new master cylinder run me, and how would i install it

[AZmike]

New? Not sure. I got a lifetime warranted rebuilt one for $60 at pepboys. You remove the two 10mm brake line fittings from the cylinder and remove the two 12 mm nuts and spring washers holding it on to the booster. Make sure you kep the booster-MC seal in when you swap parts. You may want to get a brake fitting wrench. It surrounds the nut better and makes it harder to strip the soft metal. Don't forget to follow the brench bleeding proceedure on the new MC first. After it's installed you need to bleed all four brakes. I got a hand vacuum pump nd it makes this really easy to do by yourself.

[markmdz89hatch]

don't know on price, but a rebuilt one is just as good as new.

to replace it, all you need is some time, a 10mm. socket (I'm pretty sure), and a bottle of brake fluid. Oh, and also someone to help you bleed the ENTIRE braking system once you replace it. Oh yeah, and also a brake line wrench so you don't strip the fittings.

There's only 2 bolts that hold the master on, one is easily accessible from the top of the engine compartment, for the other, I suggest going from underneath. Loosen up those, and the 2 (maybe 4 i don't remember) line fittings, and yank it off. Oh yeah, don't forget to disconnect the fluid level sensors from the cap.

[markmdz89hatch]

Originally posted by 89LXi4dr
New? Not sure. I got a lifetime warranted rebuilt one for $60 at pepboys. You remove the... ...I got a hand vacuum pump nd it makes this really easy to do by yourself.

Damn, looks like you beat me to it... I guess i was wrong, it's 12mm for the master-booster bolts. Oops. Thanks 89lxi4dr.

[AZmike]

I remember reading about the hand pump on here a few months ago. It made bleeding so easy (my first time). Were you the one that suggested it Mark?

[markmdz89hatch]

i'm not sure, but i don't think so... ...i didn't have good luck with that hand bleeder when I tried it. I ended up going back to recruiting my brother to help do it the old fashioned way.

[Greg]

2 things:

You really should check out your lines and caliper before you change your master -- just to be sure.

Even though the 3G has dual diagonal brake circuits, a significant leak might make your peddle go to the floor (although it's true that you SHOULD still have one side of the brakes working a bit). Just check it out to be sure.

I think an aftermarket brake master cylinder would be fine if that's the problem.

Even if you could find a rebuild kit for your master, I wouldn't screw around with it unless you really knew what you were doing. You would probably have to hone it and get a seal that you knew was a tight fit... I wouldn't screw with it on brakes personally.

As far as bleeding goes, I bleed by doing the following:

1) fill up a snapple bottle or a similar sized, cleaned out glass bottle w/brake fluid, 1/3 of the way

2) loosen the bleeder & then re-tighten. (I would use something 6-point for this because bleeders can break or strip REALLY EASILY when they get old and rusty). I usually use my 1/4 in. ratchet and a 6pt. socket or my 10mm combo wrench. Loosen it by putting pressure on it, counter clockwise, w/ one hand and then gently hitting that hand w/your other hand. These little impact hits simulate mild impact-wrench hits, and are good for loosening things w/o breaking them. I would ALSO soak the bleeders w/PB Blaster for like 15 or 20 min before you attempt to loosen them.

3) then connect a tight-fitting break hose from the bleeder to the bottle, making sure that it is submerged in the fluid.

4) bleed by keeping the master cylinder full of clean fluid, and pushing the brake pedal down to the floor gently. When you see no more air bubbles coming into the bottle, you are done with that corner. I usually put a light behind the bottle to illuminate the fluid so I can see it better. When I worked at a neighborhood auto shop, I used to do this by myself. You can lean out the door while you step on the brake to watch the bottle. You can also adjust the side-view mirrors to see the bottle when doing the rear... however works best for you.

Then you re-tighten the bleeder when you get the air out of each corner. I forgot the sequence of corners to bleed for the 3G. You can look it up in the shop manual online. It's in the How-To or FAQ section of this board.

You should also pre-bleed the master cylinder before you put it in. It should come with instructions for this.

[markmdz89hatch]

Originally posted by Greg

You should also pre-bleed the master cylinder before you put it in. It should come with instructions for this.

hmmm.... ...can you get away with not (actually not realizing to)doing this? If you don't do that before you put it on, is there any way to be sure ALL air is out of the system?

[Greg]

markmdz89hatch--

Well, if you bleed all 4 corners thoroughly, and you feel a good hold at the pedal, then you're all right.

If the pedal travels too much (feels squishy) then you might want to bleed some more.

The brake pedal on my 87LX is much less firm-feeling than on my girlfriend's 86LXI, but I don't really care much. If I push it down, it holds, and the car stops. Last Spring I tried to fix it by bleeding all 4 corners of my car and adjusting my rear brake shoes, but it didn't really help.

I'm thinking that either my master is letting in air somehow & getting weak or that my calipers aren't retracting evenly, and I get a little travel at the caliper (you can see this if you take your wheel off, and your rotor sort-of shifts unevenly when you step on the brake).

Anyway, if your brakes feel hard then don't worry. If they're soft, then it's either air in the system, dirty brake fluid, poorly adjusted brake shoes, or sticky calipers that cause rotor-flex.

But it is good to pre-bleed the master because you save time when you bleed the rest of the system, and it is another way to ensure that you get all the air bubbles out.

[86accordlxi-fi]

how do i bleed the system, i know how to do the MC, but how do i bleed the actual brake system on the car

[markmdz89hatch]

There's a Bleeder Valve on each of the 4 corners of the car. The Calipers have the bleeder right on them up front, and the rear (drum) the bleeder is right off the back of the cylinder (behind the drum assy.). Other then that, follow the instructions that Greg wrote up just a few posts back. (This braking system doesn't have an external bleeder valve on the master, or the proportioning valve, so you'll just have to pull all the air out from the corners.) Make sure that while bleeding the system, you keep the master topped off. The last thing you wanna do is pull air back in the master by running it dry.

[rocky2]

get a quart of brake fliud,top off mc ,get wheels off,obtain assitant to push brake pedal while you look at brake componets for leakage.
Bench bleeding mc : screw on fittings,push on hoses,put hoses into very bottom of mc ,fill mc, push mc piston from backside watch as tiny bubbles come out hose...do not let hose come out of fliud during process. till piston become firm and no more bubbles.....mc is bench bleed

[86accordlxi-fi]

i found out what the problem was, it wasnt the MC it was the hose that goes to the caliper, i took the tire off and laid down and look at it, there was a crack in the hose right before the caliper, i got it replaced. thanks for the help

[AZmike]

Glad you got it fixed. I bet a brake line was much less expensive than a master cylinder would have been.