all motor or turbo desicions to be made... advice please...

[bobafett]

ok i am kinda of stuck here with what i want to do...

1) my first plan was to build up a junkyard turbo with low psi and slowly build internals and supporting mods until i max out the limit of a t-25 or 14b... this would be somewhere around 15psi, no higher...

after considering this alot, it still seems like a realy fun plan, but i am scared for my engines sake.

2) the other route obviously is all motor or maybe n20... in which case i could do a lot more mods to the car that would make it fast.... HOWEVER, i am not sure how stressful this would be to an engine....

part of me wants to raise the compression ratio, and get a ground cam, but part of me wants to do a turbo setup...

i know i will ultimitly be faster with a turbo, but i am wondering whats the potential for a built a20?....

realistically i SHOULD build the car up as far as possible, doing mods that would not have to be swapped out depending on the route i chose... thats why right now i am trying to figure out this b16 intake manifold, so i can get my air and fuel delivery up to speed. i already have my suspension done, and now i am wondering what else i can do (please be specific) that would not steer me down one path or another...

i would also like opinions on which route you would take. i am not interested in a swap, i want to stick with the a20...

i DO plan on rebuilding the engine before i turbocharge it, and i would also rebuild once i started to add cams and pistons to the all motor engine...

which would be safer, smarter, and more reliable?

i guess all i want right now is to know what i can do that will stay useful and not have to be sold once i commit to one path or another...

funstick/sean has the ECM that really makes me want to go with a turbo, but it would also help out a NA car it seems...

a little insight and advice please?

[Jims 86LXI HB]

I've followed your post in the project section, so I know what's going on thier. Personelly, after having driven turbo charged car's in the past, thier was only one that did a credible job of not having turbo lag. That was a 98 VW passat. VW uses a small turbo & wastegateless (no wastegate) system. But it still was noticebly weak until 1750rpm's. The other turbo car's I've driven are, 87 Dodge colt turbo (mistsubishi marage clone), 91 mitsubishi eclipse AWD, (2 car's to check transmission), 92? mitsubish Galant VR4 (AWD and 4 wheel steering), and this month a subaru WRX. All of them had way to much turbo lag for my taste. I highly recommend that you find a used turbo charged car to drive to see how you feel about how they deliver their power. Don't drive a VW cause to dulplicate their setup would be a tall order. (A small turbo without a wastegate).

Frankly, I vote for all motor, working your B16a intake, get a cam and a true cold air intake vs the short ram you have now and pulling a head at a junk yard and sending it out to a shop to have the head ported and polished, and installing 10.5 compression piston's. The N20 sound's like a good idea.

[bobafett]

yeah i am leaning towards an all motor setup, it would be way cheaper...

as far as i know, the t25 (automatic DSM) and the 14b (5speed DSM) have very little turbo lag... which is what i would use... i have never actually DRIVEN a turbo charged car though, but i know it would be more $$$ to maintain, in addition to more broken parts and trannies!!!

all motor seems like the better choice for now, especially because i want to have a project CRX once i am out of college...

realistically i need a good job to be able to do a smart turbo setup. but even with little/no money i can slowly build up an all motor project.... :)

ok, obviously i have pretty much convinced myself to go all motor. what steps are in order at this point?
prolly a street/race cam (i dont want a 8500rpm powerband... lol)
high flow cat/ test pipe, i dont have emissions, but i have been told a test pipe would be kinna dumb to have... and a hi flow cat would be smarter.
umm, i guess i need cam gear after i get a cam.
would an s-AFC be useful or a waste?
maybe an integra/lude tranny (can these take more abuse than a a20 tranny?)
low tek was talking about using the heads from an old lude to raise the compression ratio, that and 10.5 pistons could be cool!

BUT, i can only get 92octane on the pumps here, i am not sure if that will be a huge factor though.

once i get my intake manifold on there, which injectors/fuel rail should i get, i have seen some cheap ones on ebay, or should i go with AEM rails.... since i bet they ARE good... lol.
thanks for the advice jim, keep it coming, i am new to this, and very open to suggestions... plus i love to brainstorm

[Jims 86LXI HB]

Originally posted by bobafett


as far as i know, the t25 (automatic DSM) and the 14b (5speed DSM) have very little turbo lag... which is what i would use... i have never actually DRIVEN a turbo charged car though, but i know it would be more $$$ to maintain, in addition to more broken parts and trannies!!!


Not true at all, they have plenty of lag, the DSM's boost hit's around 2500-2750. Drive one for yourself and you'll see, that's why I was suggesting that you drive one. I drove 2 of them, cause the first one was way to easy to beat the syncro's into 2nd, so I drove another on, same problem and same lag. The Galant is the same platform as the DSM and the VR-4 in 92 is a 4-door version of the eclipse, same 2nd gear syncro problem and same turbo lag. Very few turbo car's are know for not having lag, most all do. Again I highly recommend that you drive one, so you can see for yourself if it is true or if it doesn't matter for your style of driving. I don't care for lag at all.

[bobafett]

yeah i know what youre saying about the galant..

hmm, well obviously i am not an authority on turbos, i was just always under the impression that the only cool thing about the t25 and 14b is the fact that they spool so quickly... yeah i know what you mean about the tranny problem though!

i have pretty much decided on an all motor setup. (less gauges to distract me this way as well!)

[A20A1]

All motor...

get funsticks ECU... urr Seans ECU. That will be a Turbo/NA mod. :D

[bobafett]

hehe.. yep i am looking forward to that one! not sure though, i was under the impression that included some other stuff too, like a different distributor, different injectors, and other crap too! who knows... :) but i cant wait...

any more all motor ideas. are there products out there for the a20 that would allow me to safely raise redline (i ask you who loves 7500rpm!)

[A20A1]

Oh yeah balancing the motor and getting stronger connecting rods and pistons will get you some high revs. The head had no problem hitting 7,500 without damage... but you may not be getting the full potential of the cam if the valve springs can't keep up... and the retainers can't hold the higher spring rate.

Get larger valves if you can Stainless steel, and also get an angle job.

unfortuantely a cam regrind will cause you to head one way or the other so i didn't list that...

[Sean]

jim there is a way to reduce turbo lag. i have inb the past. lat turbo motor made boost at 1800rpm. which is under the converter stall. so smack the gas boost came up. not a huge ordeal if you want my 2 cents. and is easier to tune for and is always fast. the other benifit of turbos is that you can have only engine mods the require tougher parts but not affect gas mileage or driveability. a high output a20a in N/A form is not really the best thing since sliced bread. i feel teh engine best realizes its potential with a turbo. its a stout motor buts its not blessed with the high hp and driveability feature lke vtc or variable valve timing, so using a turbo sort of adds to the fun.

and BTW my frines shelby lancer with 150k boost at 1800rpm. there alot to be siad for the way the wastegate is arranged. i have some things that really can get it moving. or if your really desperate for quick spool up look for a chrysler VNT off of a turbo3 dodge dytona. they have a 16valve dohc setup from 90-93 therealso quiet rare. if i see a VNT ill let you know for sure. its a great spooling tubro with really fast response times. it uses a moving vane to control exhuast pressure to the exhuast turbine. make the turbo spool really fast.

nice deal ill look around.

and ps the gmecm is worth a good deal of HP over the honda junk.

[bobafett]

ok and how much/when will it be available, what all will i get?

i am pretty interested still...

[bobafett]

a20a1:
ok well i have decided this:

its all motor time...
i cant realistically afford the turbo project until i am out of school making real $$... starting pay is SUPPOSED to be at least 60k... we will see....

anyway, there are a lot of little things i can do all motor... which is the plan for now, and then later on get a crx for a b16 turbo project, it will be no big deal to afford after i get out of school... :P

so lets hear all your all motor ideas man...

so where can i get valve springs and retainers? etc...

and when you say pistons are you talking about like 10.5 forged pistons or something...