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View Full Version : MODIFICATION , ENGINE COOLING PART 1 ( Intake Coolant Bypass )



A20A1
11-30-2002, 06:56 PM
carb


here is the way i bypassed the intake manifold heater.
The efi and carb engines have simmilar coolant ports in about the same area. You will find all needed ports on both water pipes and thermostat housings.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1839&d=1038711415
differences:
A20a3
- has the temperature guage sending unit on the thermostat.
- has 2 thermovalve valve/sensor ports
a20a1
- has the temperature guage sending unit on the intake manifold.
- has 1 thermo valve port
anyways:
R1 - goes to the radiator.
R2 - goes to the radiator.
T1 - is the temperature sending unit.
C1 - connects to c2 directly or with a coolant "t" connector if it is used by the heater core.
B1 & even b2 can be plugged if you don't want to use the heater core.
There is a small coolant port near the center of the water pipe that runs under the intake manifold and feeds the carburetor base... When removing the coolant lines to the manifold you need to plug the small coolant port on the water pipe... Also plug the larger coolant port on the water pipe that is closest to the water pump. You bypass the manifold by running a short hose looped from c1 to c2 , although you can run a much longer hose from the port near the water pump... All the way to the port on the thermostat housing and it will do the same job.
The choke on the carb will need some vacuum rerouting to work. You need to relocate the thermovalve b (vacuum lines # 17,18,19) to the thermostat housing... And remove the thermowax valve a. With the thermowax removed you must connect a vacuum hose from the secondary diaphragm directly to the carb and remove the vacuum "t" connector or plug all ports and convert to manual secondary.
If you get the lxi thermostat housing then you can also swap in thermovalve a (vacuum lines # 17, 25) that controll the cold vacuum advance... You'll also have a working temperature guage inside the car since the temp sensor is now on the thermostat housing and has access to coolant

efi


this thread is based on this (http://members.tripod.com/%7epre_lude/pmods.html) prelude free mods page describing free or dirt cheap mods. I found it referenced on a prelude forum (can't find link right now) where they agreed that some of them worked and were worthwhile (coolant bypass, egr block, ignition timing advance etc.) and some weren't worth it (flapper valve mod-caused loss of lower end power).
Egr mod has a thread: block the egr (http://3geez.asmallorange.com/showthread.php?p=434134&posted=1#post434134) ignition timing advance has been discussed here quite a few times, though i still don't exactly get which screws i need to loosen. I will be referencing only the coolant bypass mod in this thread and intend to post pictures and make it into a well rounded how to.
Coolant bypass mod consists of two parts (at least on a prelude). The first is bypassing the coolant flowing through the throttle body.
The second is blocking the fast idle valve. Though the fore mentioned mod page doesn't mention it, it has been noted on the prelude forum that bypassing the coolant results in rough idle which is reportedly fixed by blocking the fast idle valve. I don't know yet if it will have the same effect on a 3g, but my fast idle valve was idling the car at 2200 rpm when cold so i wanted to block it anyway.
bypassing the coolant line through the throttle body is a simple process of disconnecting the hoses that run from the water pump to the throttle body and from the throttle body back to the engine (actually to a t or rather +connector) at the ends where they connect to the throttle body and connecting the two hoses to each other.
replacing the two hoses with one longer one was not an option to me as the water pump side was highly inaccessible. If you know of a simple way to do it, please let me know.
The problem i ran into was finding a 5/16 hose connector. I looked at 11 stores, all major auto parts stores and some local ones, the home depot as well as local hardware stores. The only 5/16 connector i found was in a $4.00 asorted vacuum connector kit at auto zone. can someone advise me if it is ok to use a vacuum hose connector on a water (coolant) hose?
i'm running late right now, but i will update this thread at a latter time with instructions and pics of fast idle valve block which i achieved successfully. I just wanted to get this thread started. I would like to make it into a well rounded how to.

shepherd79
12-01-2002, 09:11 AM
wait a minute, where is your heater core?
it looks like you won't have heat in your car.

A20A1
12-01-2002, 10:50 AM
yes... I don't need heat or the extra weight in my car.

but...

If you need to keep the heater core because of the cold, it's best to leave on the manifold heater as well till things warm up.

Well then don't remove the heater coolant hoses, other then that follow the diagram.

shepherd79
12-01-2002, 11:52 AM
well, i am not going to gut my car like you did.

POS carb
04-13-2003, 04:31 PM
oh shit I was going to hack my thermostat to mount the sensor but looks like I can just grab an LXi one then... thakns

shepherd79
04-13-2003, 05:22 PM
if you want to keep the heater, you will have to connect the C1 to a black pipe. I just ran the long hose to the other side, where the another pipe was.

88 Accord DX
04-13-2003, 05:26 PM
screw this im confused :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

POS carb
04-14-2003, 02:37 PM
lol it would be easier if someone sold plugs

shepherd79
04-17-2003, 03:32 AM
you can buy coolant plug at any autoparts store.

88 Accord DX
04-17-2003, 04:51 AM
i dont know what im plugging. maybe cuz ive never looked for this part in my car.

POS carb
04-17-2003, 09:42 AM
hey something I was interested in is setting up a seperate cooling system on the manifold for the carb people since the carbs run all weird b/c of the changing temps. Maybe something similar to the oil coolers they sell with fans.

shepherd79
04-17-2003, 12:20 PM
why would you do that?

thundertank
04-22-2003, 10:46 PM
You know it would save alot of hassle if they would have given the accord more than 98 horses!!!

POS carb
05-19-2003, 09:37 AM
aak subaru stole my idea (or I subconciously imagined it) only they use it to cool the intercooler (water jets)
I have a waterjet setup intercooler in my garage lol

sixgears
07-09-2003, 11:47 PM
I bypassed the intake heater and converted to thw lx-i thermostat housing to relocate my temp guage pickup, but shouldn't the temp/vacuum switch near the brake booster with three ports also be relocated to make a20a1's digram function. it still needs to be in coolant flow, am i right. In a20a1's diagram, it has lines #17,18 and 19 connected to it. thanks.
On a side note, the Kehin will soon be gone and in it's place (or below it) a pair of sidedraft Mikunis.....hehehe

(thermovalve a)

POS carb
10-22-2003, 07:34 AM
hey I have a bypass valve installed on the return line from the manifold. I got it at Home Depot. I didn't say anything earlier b/c I wasn't sure it would work but so far so good, it is holding up. It's a brass water valve with a blue lever-style handle. I'll send a pic. I'm also thinking about using a heater core as a manifold water radiator.

k-roy
11-04-2003, 06:45 AM
I have a question. What exactly are the benifits and downfalls of bypassing the manifold heater? I live in a warmer climate with mild winters. I would like to know what problems could occur at colder temperatures below 50 degrees. I am always up for bastardizing my car. It allready has parts from 2 dozen differant 3gs.

bump

POS carb
11-13-2003, 12:00 PM
the worst that can happen is the fuel doesn't atomize enough and it just gets shot out through your exhaust, kind of like running lean, but once the motor is warming up the carb will be warm enough from the air around it to still work ok. On cold days your car will probably run too lean Kroy. I would try hooking up a valve like I did so you can try it out.

About those thermovalves, if you are one of the few who's choke still works normally I think this mod will cause problems with the choke staying closed and the fast idle staying on. My motor hasn't seen an ECU in a few years so I can't tell you for sure

A20A1
11-14-2003, 03:21 PM
Yeah I'm not sure what I did with the choke... It plugs into a different thermal sensor though, right? The one on the intake manifold was for the guage cluster... I think the choke is on the block.

POS carb
11-15-2003, 01:13 PM
oooooh, I remember seeing a plug on the back of the block, I was like WTF is that for

A20A1
04-07-2004, 06:05 PM
Post your engine cooling modifications
*Serious Mods Only!
*Must Include Pics!

- Dual Radiator Fans

-- Stock radiator fan, operates using toggle switch, hooked to battery.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3099&d=1081389894

A20A1
04-07-2004, 06:07 PM
My next mod

- Dual Automatic Transmission Coolers
2 B&M Super Coolers

Radiator cooler isn't used.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3100
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3747

bobafett
04-07-2004, 06:07 PM
mike do you have 2 of the bigger fans? i assume u ditched AC, and the smaller fan.

i am gonna run a switch for my fan too, i like the idea of 2 fans that are bigger though.
is there any way to keep stock functionality AND also give you manual control, or is it EITHER OR?

A20A1
04-07-2004, 06:11 PM
well just use the A/C fans wires to operate the larger fan... I'm not sure if the larger fan fits with the A/C compressor there though. You'll need some long zip ties or wire to hold one side of the fan to the radiator since there are not many bolt holes that the larger fan can use.

Use a 3 way switch if you want to have the fan come on automaticly or manually, just use one wire from the thermo switch and one wire from the battery and then they both use the same ground I believe... or the same power wire depending on where the thermoswitch is located within the wiring.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
04-07-2004, 06:36 PM
High Valume Trany Cooler need it for my 2900Rpm stall with out it will do this :burn: http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/11/web/359000-359999/359877_87_full.jpg

A20A1
04-07-2004, 06:50 PM
That looks good, who makes it?... I got the B&M ones for the robust fins... I figured I need something that a stray rock couldn't deform easily.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
04-07-2004, 06:53 PM
it the new B&M and it works good to

A20A1
07-29-2004, 11:47 AM
no brass connectors in the hardwarestores? hmm you could use copper tubing, but I'm not sure if thats the right diameter... I'm not sure on the vacuum connector being a good choice, look for fuel line connectors... usually anything for efi will work.
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=9985

keruhas184
08-04-2004, 07:46 PM
So the car will inoperable in the winter with this mod? But I guess if you took 5 min to change the hoses, you can take another 5 to undo it...

BTW, if anyone finds the right connector and such, tell us where to get it and take a few pics of the "procedure" plz :)

Slavic
08-05-2004, 05:24 AM
I'm not sure how bad it'd be, but I'm personally not concerned with it at all being located in Miami. As you said it doesn't take much to revert to the original position, though bleeding the system for air gets boring.

Llocating a 5/16 coolant/fuel line connector is the holdup. I will post pics once I get one.

86LXItooFAST4me
08-05-2004, 05:54 AM
The problem I ran into was finding a 5/16 hose connector. I looked at 11 stores, all major auto parts stores and some local ones, the Home Depot as well as local hardware stores. The only 5/16 connector I found was in a $4.00 asorted vacuum connector kit at Auto Zone. Can someone advise me if it is OK to use a vacuum hose connector on a water (coolant) hose?



Gates Hoses makes plastic hoses connecters in virtually every size and almost every auto part store carries them. also Murry AC parts makes copper, steal, and plastic hose connectors, and Dorman makes brass, copper and steel connectors. if you go to a parts store and they say they don't have it is because A- they are a shitty store and don't have anything anyway. or B- the people you are asking don't know what hell they're talking about. ask to see a cataloge on either Gates, Dorman, or Murry AC. every part store has a dealer cataloge for every brand they carry. i hate lazy ass stupid counter help that just. i swear part stores will hire any tom dick or Harry that know what a wrench is.

hondamanlxi
08-05-2004, 08:32 AM
the fuel pressure mod looks interesting...... any thoughts on this?
im trying out the secondary butterfly mod now and will give you the results (obvious low end loss)

smufguy
08-05-2004, 08:47 AM
Not to burst your bubble or talk trash, but Im suprised this is in the performance section. :dunno:

Coolant mod: Huh? By passing your coolant lines to wherever it goes beyond the engine and the radiator is just pointless. Its not gonna do anything to your performance but its just gonna give you problems with idling and warm up, if hoses like the fast idle valves and stuff is removed. I dont see a point in that. On the other hand like Mike linked to his thread, Removing or bypassing the heater core (inside the cabin) hoses in order to reduce the weight in the cabin is acceptable and that is only if you live out in the desert or in lower lattitudes like Mike. So to be honest, dont even bother with this mod cause it aint even one.

EGR: This has been done by many, ppl have just made block off plates/solid gaskets and blocked off the port on the intake manifold side and some have just cut it off. some have thrown codes and some have not. So its better off to keep the EGR cause u need it for emissions, but if u dont live in a state of emission inspection, then just block it off. pretty simple

Fuel Pressure: Whoever wrote that thread is dumber than i thought. :uh: a fuel pressure regulator works off the vaccuum off the intake manifold. Removing the vaccuum line from the regulator simulates its operation under wide open throttle so it flows fuel at whatever maximum pressure its regulated to. So for a stock regulator it will flow 37psi at idle, which will increase ur idle and if u block off the hole in the manifold, the idle will drop, but ur fuel pressure at idle will still be at 37psi which is extreme rich. Fuel pressure regulator does not need to be adjusted constantly, it has a screw on diaphram with a lock nut and with a fuel pressure gauge, it can be precisly adjusted with no problem. I have it and lots of guys have it and its no problem at all.


To sum it all up, misinformation is what sucks about this. GUys with no aparent clue of what they are doing have more stupid followers than a geneous. So dont follow the Link's writeup. Know the mechanics behind a part and what they do and do accordingly. damn :rice: s

86LXItooFAST4me
08-05-2004, 08:53 AM
To sum it all up, misinformation is what sucks about this. GUys with no aparent clue of what they are doing have more stupid followers than a geneous. So dont follow the Link's writeup. Know the mechanics behind a part and what they do and do accordingly. damn :rice: s

Do what now? lol

hondamanlxi
08-05-2004, 08:57 AM
on my t&t street i usualy run 75mph from point a to b
with both "mods" i seem to run 1 or 2 mph slower... but seems more revy

always take into consideration, speed costs money! free mods are :owned:

Busted_Blue
08-05-2004, 09:21 AM
hey what about that flapper valve removal. so we use all 8 runners at the same time. Is that logical? I want to try it out lol.

hondamanlxi
08-05-2004, 09:58 AM
just undo the vacuum line on the right side of the intake manifold. Its hooked to the ONLY diaphram connected to the intake mani on that side! It seems to rev alittle better but nothing exiciting!

the direct port into the flapper plate is badass! im definately into that!

A20A1
08-05-2004, 12:54 PM
My link was also to bypassing the manifold heater for the carb, but you're right about the idle and warm up problems... but once it's running it gets enough heat transfering from the head to help the fuel atomize.

As for EFI it realy doesn't need the fuel atomization as much since the injectors squirt into the head so fuel flow thru the manifold isn't a problem... keeping it cool by removing the heater is only part of it, you also need to block heat from the head... so you should think about getting the heat spacer from a B16 or having one custom made for the A20.

Again if you mess with the coolant the cold idle/warm up will be affected, it's up to you if you want to live with that, I have little problem where I live.

hondamanlxi
08-05-2004, 01:07 PM
mantis88ls did that on his teg (d16a1) and in the mornings its acted like a carb w/no choke. In other words, you have to assist the idle for 20-30sec or so, no more retarded problems tho! My accords eacv is acting dumb so im on to this right now until i replace it

Slavic
08-09-2004, 06:10 AM
Just a quick update. I did the bypass using a hose connector/bracket from my parts car (Why didn't I think of that before). No pics, sorry. I'll take some at a latter time. I noticed a pin hole hose leak so I decided to do it at the same time cause bleeding the air out of the system is boring.

It took me well over 20 minutes for the fan to come on and I had to have the engine revved at higher RPMs to achieve that. It just wouldn't move from slightly above 1/3 until I started keeping it at higher RPMs.

That doesn't have anything to do with the bypass. I'm just mentioning it. The system is just really clean. When I flushed it after using that radiator treatment that you leave in the cooling system to circulate for a day it was totally clean right from the start.

Since I've already blocked the fast idle valve a few weeks ago, which required me to loosen the idle screw a few turns to get the idle high enough to get engine running and caused a drop in RPM's below normal for the duration of the warm up period and later on drilled 2 holes in the block (1/4" diameter) which solved the idle drop I now only had to lower the idle a little (it's now almost at the tightest setting) and I have a car the revs up to 1500 RPMs for a couple of seconds and than settles at 800 RPMs (until it starts being rough and dropping whenever anything that draws power turns on which is another issue alltogether). Sure beets having the car rev at 2200-2500 RPMs for a few minutes.

I don't notice any power increase, but I didn't expect to. I'm aware this mod can only be, say, a moderate addition to improve/complement a CAI.

smufguy
08-09-2004, 04:58 PM
:sad2: :uh:

A20A1
08-09-2004, 05:07 PM
LOL, can't say you didn't try. :D

smufguy
08-09-2004, 05:19 PM
LOL, can't say you didn't try. :D

i know right? :kekeke:

Slavic
08-09-2004, 06:03 PM
Coolant mod: Huh? By passing your coolant lines to wherever it goes beyond the engine and the radiator is just pointless. Its not gonna do anything to your performance but its just gonna give you problems with idling and warm up, if hoses like the fast idle valves and stuff is removed. I dont see a point in that. On the other hand like Mike linked to his thread, Removing or bypassing the heater core (inside the cabin) hoses in order to reduce the weight in the cabin is acceptable and that is only if you live out in the desert or in lower lattitudes like Mike. So to be honest, dont even bother with this mod cause it aint even one.

Whatever. My reasoning is simple. Hot coolant flowing through or even just connecting to the intake manifold is going to introduce heat to the intake manifold and therefore intake air much quicker than just ambient heat radiation through air. Heat transferring to intake air = bad. Eliminating hot coolant which is introducing heat to intake air = good. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I had rough idle long before I did this. Idling problem introduced by coolant bypass, if there ever was one, and I wouldn't know since I blocked the fast idle valve weeks before I did the coolant bypass mod in order to lower it from 2200-2500 RPMs, was fixed, rather easily might I add, and to my overwhelming joy since I was extremely dissatisfied with my car idling at 2200-2500 RPMs for five minutes FOR NOTHING.

I don't see how warmup is an issue. It didn't take any longer for it to warm up to the best of my recollection. I suppose one could use some water wetter or even better motormax if transferring heat more evenly and quickly during warmup is a concern. If it was a carb and I didn't live in Miami I suppose warm up would be a concern, but as it is it is not a concern at all.

smufguy
08-09-2004, 06:24 PM
im not talking trash to you man so dont take it personally. If you are concerned with your intake manifold heating up, then you will have to realize that its not because of the Coolant going thru it, To be honest, your coolant does not go THRU your intake manifold at all. The only places it goes to are the IAVC in the front and the Fast idle valve in the back of the manifold.

My car takes about 3 minutes to warm up and it fast idles at a respectable 1500rpm just like it should. Never has it been adjusted, cause it should not be unless its bad. Also, If you know anything about how an engine performs, you would have known that its because of the backflow of the combusted gas from the cylinders into the intake manifold. Its called Backflow in technical sense. And to be honest, your intake manifold is the hottest at idle than when ur doing 90 mph. Its because the backflow is less at higher engine speed due to lower initial vaccuum.

So thats why Alcohol injection and Intercoolers are used to cool the air temperature and not the manifold itself. Again, im not trying to prove your methods or wrong and whatnot, but im just stating the point of why things happen in an engine.

A20A1
08-09-2004, 06:33 PM
I'm still suggesting that along with a insulated cold air intake pipe, fully wraped from Throttle body to filter, even under the rubber pipe conectors with heat wrap DEI HEAT WRAP (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=10107&view=2047&applid=%7BD9E4945A%2D56C4%2D4CB8%2DB315%2D3CA6A9A8 E6F0%7D), you should also add in a insulating gasket. HONDATA INSULATING GASKET (http://www.hondata.com/heatshield.html)



...Also, If you know anything about how an engine performs, you would have known that its because of the backflow of the combusted gas from the cylinders into the intake manifold. Its called Backflow in technical sense. And to be honest, your intake manifold is the hottest at idle than when ur doing 90 mph. Its because the backflow is less at higher engine speed due to lower initial vaccuum.


Reversion

Slavic
08-09-2004, 06:40 PM
smufguy, I'm not getting offended at all. It's just that in that passage I quoted you basically stated your opinion it being that the mod is pointless, won't help performance and will give me problems with nothing to back up your claims, so I said whatever and explained my reasoning.

I know very little about IC engines. Your input is welcome. I'll try to make sense of your explanations.

As far as the mod, as I said, I had a pin hole leak and was going to have to change a hose and bleed the system anyway. I had rough idle to begin with and have partially blocked the fast idle valve because both I had worked at 2200-2500 RPMs (suppose both were defective) and I decided to fix that by partially blocking them instead of buying one that has a lower idle speed. It made sense to me to do the mod and wasn't too time consuming so I did it.

A20A1
04-12-2005, 11:17 PM
bump

b20a86lude
04-13-2005, 05:07 PM
ok so how do u do that with the b20a with a b16a manifold on it

lostforawhile
07-03-2006, 02:45 PM
has anyone got any updates on this yet? especially since the weather is so hot. I'm working on a design for a forced air oil cooler,but I don't want to put it at the front of the engine due to the fire risk from a collision. even a minor one. a far as making the fan functional and still being able to control it on demand,you simply use a bosch relay in parallel with the temp sensor. when the relay is turned on the car thinks the sensor is asking for cooling. you just put a switch inside and when you turn that switch on,the fan will run,turn it off it operates stock. i've had that setup for years. summit carries a digital fan control that is inside of a gauge it reads the actual coolant temp and you set it to trigger a relay output at the temp you want. a good place to put the sensor is on the thermostat housing,there is a round blank area on the housing where the coolant flows,just drill and tap this for the sensor.

carotman
07-03-2006, 03:03 PM
Hmmm since I'm not sure if we could incorporate a stock oil cooler from another Honda into the A20A. The B20A has an oil cooler from the factory.

lostforawhile
07-03-2006, 04:09 PM
I was going to use a cooler from an aircraft,I have a shroud that fits over it that connects to a duct,you can mount a blower fan from a small car like a geo and use it to force air down the duct to the cooler, best place to mount it is in the middle of the firewall near the bottom. blow the air down. this is safest from a crash point of view. also the cooler hoses are shorter for less pressure drop.

lostforawhile
06-22-2009, 09:28 PM
here's the actual cooler itself, this is an aircraft cooler,fits nicely where the battery would go, it's fed air from a bosch squirrel cage blower under the bumper corner, I haven't had the money to get the oil thermostat yet,thats why the two lines aren't finished
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020320.jpg
the lines on the back of the block,and the oil filter adaptor
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020317-1.jpg
remote oil filter mount
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020318-1.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020260-1.jpg
power steering cooler, this was I believe a ford engine oil cooler
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020237-4.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020239-4.jpg

Civic Accord Honda
06-22-2009, 09:45 PM
holy hell look at all dem lines n hoses

b20a86lude
09-16-2009, 04:22 PM
wow can i see more piks of the cooler from the air craft wat kind of plane is it from

lostforawhile
09-16-2009, 06:56 PM
wow can i see more piks of the cooler from the air craft wat kind of plane is it from
I'll go out in a little while and take some more pictures

lostforawhile
09-16-2009, 07:59 PM
All right some more, put the radiator hose bracket on and took off the bumper for these pictures.
This is the blower under the bumper corner, it's a bosch unit I got off of ebay, it pulls air in from under the bumper, and the scoop inlet on the blower has a screen in it to prevent debris from being sucked up. there is also a filter in one of those pieces that fit under the bottom of the bumper.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020160-3.jpg
the upper hose that runs up into the engine compartment
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020161-3.jpg
The cooler is a Kintex, The only reason I was able to get this one, was it had some bent fins, which made is unsuitable for aircraft use. It sat on a shelf collecting dust for years. These run about 800 bucks new. You might be able to find a used one if you look long enough, or if you live near an aircraft graveyard. Even used though they are expensive, they can be sent off and refurbished.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020164-2.jpg

the radiator hose bracket, I machined that piece from a piece of scrap aluminum, it splits into two halves.
the plenums are unique to aircraft from maule, but there are others out there that will probably work, or you can make your own out of sheet metal
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020162-4.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020163-2.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020167-2.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020213-3.jpg

scars_of_carma
09-29-2009, 02:37 PM
All right some more, put the radiator hose bracket on and took off the bumper for these pictures.

This is the blower under the bumper corner, it's a bosch unit I got off of ebay, it pulls air in from under the bumper, and the scoop inlet on the blower has a screen in it to prevent debris from being sucked up. there is also a filter in one of those pieces that fit under the bottom of the bumper.

The cooler is a Kintex, The only reason I was able to get this one, was it had some bent fins, which made is unsuitable for aircraft use. It sat on a shelf collecting dust for years. These run about 800 bucks new. You might be able to find a used one if you look long enough, or if you live near an aircraft graveyard. Even used though they are expensive, they can be sent off and refurbished.


I machined the radiator hose bracket from a piece of scrap aluminum, it splits into two halves. The plenums are unique to aircraft from maule, but there are others out there that will probably work, or you can make your own out of sheet metal.


Nice fab work! You should ask me about my website if you're interested in selling any of your designs. :cool:

lostforawhile
03-09-2010, 10:51 PM
water neck ready to go back in. I had to move the temp sensor to the housing. the top outlet is for the heater to the oil separator system. the temp sensor goes just above the bypass outlet on the side. made a bung out of aluminum and it's tigged on, then tapped at 1/8 bspt
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4021108.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4021107.jpg

Dr_Snooz
03-10-2010, 06:42 AM
Lost, I love that matte black paint. Very nice.

This is my cooling system mod:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/vdubbugman53/IMG_1671-1.jpg

I run it as zero pressure by cutting the spring assembly off the rad cap:

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/SNC00140.jpg

The zero pressure should make the hoses last a lot longer. It's a propylene glycol base, so disposal is potentially much easier. It's also a "lifetime" fill, so I don't have to replace it every two years.

It's working fine. I can't really tell any difference between this and the old coolant, which is good. The heater never seems to get hot thought. I just start sweating after awhile running it.

ecogabriel
03-10-2010, 08:48 AM
water neck ready to go back in. I had to move the temp sensor to the housing. the top outlet is for the heater to the oil separator system. the temp sensor goes just above the bypass outlet on the side. made a bung out of aluminum and it's tigged on, then tapped at 1/8 bspt


I like the black matte color and the allen bolts too ;) (Are the bolts aircraft ones or just regular bolts?

I will install a transmission oil cooler, sourced from a Ford Explorer. It is thin enough to fit between the A/C condenser and the bumper, and it should be enough for this transmission.
The plan is to install a temp gauge first to see what the temps without the additional cooler are, and then compare between plumbing the cooler AFTER the radiator cooler, and install it BEFORE the rad. cooler to see which alternative is more effective in reducing transmission temps.

lostforawhile
03-10-2010, 03:52 PM
Lost, I love that matte black paint. Very nice.

This is my cooling system mod:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/vdubbugman53/IMG_1671-1.jpg

I run it as zero pressure by cutting the spring assembly off the rad cap:

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/SNC00140.jpg

The zero pressure should make the hoses last a lot longer. It's a propylene glycol base, so disposal is potentially much easier. It's also a "lifetime" fill, so I don't have to replace it every two years.

It's working fine. I can't really tell any difference between this and the old coolant, which is good. The heater never seems to get hot thought. I just start sweating after awhile running it.
snooze you don't want to do that,it's important to have pressure in the system, the pressure is what increases the boiling point of your coolant, running it without that spring is like running it with the cap off. It doesn't matter what coolant, you still need pressure to make it function correctly. I believe every PSI increase over atmospheric pressure is roughly good for ten degrees in increased boiling point.

ecogabriel
03-10-2010, 04:19 PM
snooze you don't want to do that,it's important to have pressure in the system, the pressure is what increases the boiling point of your coolant, running it without that spring is like running it with the cap off. It doesn't matter what coolant, you still need pressure to make it function correctly. I believe every PSI increase over atmospheric pressure is roughly good for ten degrees in increased boiling point.

You are right; the higher the pressure the higher the boiling point. Would it be possible that this coolant has a far higher boiling point than the regular mixture of coolant/water? Anyway, I do not know if the higher boiling point they report in the jars is at atmospheric pressure or in a pressurized system

Dr_Snooz
03-10-2010, 08:30 PM
Would it be possible that this coolant has a far higher boiling point than the regular mixture of coolant/water?

Bulls-eye. Somewhere around 350 degrees. You'll have a lot of other broken things to worry about before this coolant boils.

lostforawhile
03-10-2010, 11:52 PM
Bulls-eye. Somewhere around 350 degrees. You'll have a lot of other broken things to worry about before this coolant boils.

It's still best to run it pressurized, the other problem with an unpressurized system is you can end up with hot spots and cavitation running non pressurized. The pressured system insures a consistent pressure across the entire system vs just pressure from the water pump operating. I know a lot of people with hot rods who run into this problem on older non pressurized systems, one of the reasons for the pressurized system was to force air out of the system, this doesn't work nearly as well with a non pressurized system.

Dr_Snooz
03-11-2010, 07:01 AM
Most of those problems come from the fact that you're still using water to cool the engine. It's hard to cool an engine when operating temperature is also the boiling point of the coolant. If you add any kind of load, then temps rise well beyond boiling point. The pressure in ordinary systems is meant to raise the boiling point of the water. Cavitation hasn't been reported as a problem in anything I've read.

This is all speculative, of course. I've only read what's possible and don't know from experience. If I come back this summer with a cracked block, you can say you told me so.

Here are a couple sample articles if anyone is interested.

http://www.custommachiningusa.com/Evans_NPG+.html

http://will.mylanders.com/mc/notes/read.pl?file=64

gp02a0083
03-11-2010, 01:57 PM
I believe every PSI increase over atmospheric pressure is roughly good for ten degrees in increased boiling point.

depends on the liquid your using, there's a big difference between water, rubbing alcohol and other liquids.

you can play around with this equation to get an idea, but this will give a ball park figure of whats going on, theres alot of other forces at work that can cause boiling point elevation

PV=nRT
p= pressure
v= volume
n= how many moles of liquid you got
R= constant
T= temp

also like snooz was thinking propylene glycol isn't a bad coolant to use, heck the stock coolant is ethylene glycol, all thats diffrent is one methyl group. I've also used on occasion for lower temperatures going to -100 C iso-propyl alcohol.

A20A1
04-21-2010, 09:34 PM
Damn I would use that stuff for sure.

I think it would be better with the cap left alone.

The caps primary function is to raise the boiling point, yeah we know that one... the caps secondary function is bleeding off EXCESS pressure to protect your water-pump seals, hoses, and radiator from over-pressurization... you don't have excess assuming I read the bottle correctly, it says 0-7psi. Regardless of running a pressurized system or not, the point is you may end up constantly losing fluid into the reservoir if there is no resistance from your cap... (less than 7psi of resistance). Just make sure you have fluid in the reservoir to feed back into the system, or cap off the fitting on the radiator to the reservoir to prevent any loss.