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Thread: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

  1. #1
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    89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    after warming up and shut off, it wont restart until it sits for a while. check engine light comes on, but i didn't check the codes yet. any help would be appreciated.



  2. #2
    LXi User EX-ileAccord's Avatar
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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    Main Relay up under the dash on the drivers side is gonzo
    https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...t=53764&page=2
    check the link i posted in there
    Last edited by EX-ileAccord; 09-21-2006 at 08:33 PM.

  3. #3
    3Geez Veteran Pico's Avatar
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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    I have the same problem also but only on really warm days
    I just thought that maybe it was some sort of fuel vapor lock if thats
    possible....
    Now I'll have to look into repairing the main relay or replacing with another one

  4. #4

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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    most likely it is your main relay.
    I never heard or had fuel vapor lock on honda.
    Alex.

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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    where is the main relay. i read that it was on the drivers side under the dash, but i couldn't see anything when i looked for it.

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    3Geez Veteran smufguy's Avatar
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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    As i tell a lot of new guys, Follow the link on my signature to the free shop manual. Download the appropriate zip file and download it. all pages are in JPEG format and in english. HOpe that helps. U cannot see the relay just by looking thru under the dash.

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    LXi User EX-ileAccord's Avatar
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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    or check the link I posted and it shows you there. and shows how to repair it

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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    Okay, let's throw a weird one at you: what if it isn't the Main Relay?

    My 86 LX-I does the same thing as the OP's car.

    From what I've read about the Main Relay in the PGM-FI system, there should be three clicks: one when you turn the car on, one two seconds later when the PGM-FI light goes out, and the third when you crank the engine. I get those every time I start up. I even pulled the Main Relay and resoldered all the contacts, as suggested on another site. No help--because it's acting normal.

    Now here's where it gets fun: When my car decides it doesn't want to start, I get a real strong smell of gas coming from under the hood, like it's flooded. And if you hold the pedal to the floor when you crank, eventually you can run out the flood and the car starts. (This, however, will shorten the life of your starter.)

    Even more fun: if you get someone in a big honkin' truck to push-start the car or you roll it down a hill, it fires right up.

    One day I was upset at the engine and pulled the 15-amp fuse that runs the fuel pump. The engine fired and ran for three seconds before it managed to burn up all the fuel in the line. I stuck the fuse back in, and it wouldn't start. After a few fuse/no-fuse cycles, the engine started and ran. I eventually put a switch on the fuse (you need two male spade lugs, two female spade lugs, some wire, a 30-amp switch and an inline fuseholder to build this). You turn the switch on, crank the engine for three seconds, turn it off while you're still cranking, wait till the engine fires, then turn the switch back on and start pumping the hell out of the gas. You might have to flip the switch a few times, but if you can get the engine to rev up real nice with every pump for three or four pumps, you then floor the pedal and hold it in until the engine runs smoothly, backing off as it starts running more cleanly. (You gotta be here...)

    Now here's what I'm really thinking: any intake system will enrichen its fuel-air mixture when the engine's cold, to help the engine start easier. On a carbureted car, that's what the choke is there for. PGM-FI has to do this electronically, and to do it, it needs some way of knowing how hot the engine is. There are, right on top of the thermostat housing, two coolant temperature sensors. One is the gauge sender, the other the PGM-FI CTS. So what I'm thinking is, the CTS is screwed up somehow. It can't report the coolant temp to the PGM-FI, so the black box thinks the engine is always cold...and goes into Cold Startup mode every time. Which, if applied to a warm engine, will flood the poor thing every time. Once the engine starts, the PGM-FI on our cars seems to ignore the CTS--and with fair reason; once the engine warms up it should be at least as warm as the thermostat's opening temp.

    So why the difference between a warm starter start and a warm push start? When you crank the engine with the starter, the PGM-FI receives a "cranking" signal from the starter that lets it know the car is starting, so it listens to the CTS and floods the engine. When you crank the engine by rolling the car downhill and popping the clutch (REAL bad on your CVs; don't do this if you can help it) the cranking signal never shows up at the black box, so it thinks the car is already running and ignores the CTS.

    If I can find a 3rd generation Accord in a junkyard (around here they're scarce in junkyards, strangely enough) I'm going to scavenge the CTS off it and throw it on just to see what happens.

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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    well lets start with what you said.
    it sounds like you are getting fuel. when you removed the fuse and used up all the gas, and tried to start again that was your mistake right there.
    On EFI cars, if you lost the fuel pressure, you supposed to turn the ignition key 2-3 times and let the fuel pressure build up. Second, pumping the gas pedal on efi cars doesn't do shit man. everything is computer controlled.
    what you made your own switch, that was a waist of your time. stock honda setup is fine and easy to fix. now you are saying it is running ruff when it starts, well there is your problem. have you checked the codes?
    have your checked your spark plugs, sprak plug wires, distributor, cap and rotor, and coil. all those things can cause the car run ruff and produce a lot of unburn fuel.
    For the engine to work properly you need basic things: good fuel pressure and good spark. any parts that don't work properly can cause fuel pressure drop or spark not to fire or fire at wrong time.

    I had my efi accord for 3 years. Everyday, it fires up on third turn.
    before EFI i had carb and it had no choke, and it would fire up on second turn in -10 deg.

    So basicly your car has some major problem. may be your distributor is not working right or may be one of your sensors died. who knows what can cause the car run ruff.
    Alex.

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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    When Jaymowreader (2 posts back) talks about the CTS he is referring to what Honda calls the TW sensor. It's right next to the gauge temp sensor on the way to the thermostat (it's the one closest to the engine). The TW sensor is a thermistor (a temperature dependent resistor, like the one that makes the low fuel light come on. The resistance of the thermistor decreases as the coolant temperature increases). When things are not going right there the engine will get progressively more difficult to start when hot. It happened to me, and I let it go just a little too long. I had to order the part from the Honda dealer, which was a day or so, and when I stopped by to pick it up, I considered letting the engine run while I went inside because I wasn't sure I could start it once it stopped. It did, but barely....went home, plunked in the new sensor, problem solved.

    If it isn't the main relay, it's probably the TW sensor, on the f.i. cars at least.

    A lot of these things, like the TW sensor and thermostat, I think should be replaced just on general principles. Get them before they get you. For instance, I have been very good about replacing the big coolant hoses, but not so good about doing the little ones. Well, they leak too, and you definitely have to get them from the dealer, as they are weird sizes, with bends. So there I am, trying to make do while waiting for the order to come in. Would have been simpler just to do them all at once with the heater hoses.

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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    Alex, it STARTS rough, it doesn't RUN rough.

    The warm-start sequence:
    Crank engine with fuel pump turned on--no start.

    Turn off fuel pump to let engine burn through flood and pump the hell out of it, which lets more air in (I've tried just holding the pedal to the floor for this; it doesn't work). Keep pumping until pumping the gas makes the engine rev up like normal.

    Once engine revs up like normal, hold the gas down and the engine will start to sputter for a few seconds, then run real slow, and finally just run. Once it decides to run, it runs normally--stable idle, good acceleration, no wanting to stall, everything you'd expect from a Honda.

    For the first minute or so after it starts, the exhaust has a definite scent of unburned fuel in it. Once that goes away, everything is normal. I could pull up beside anyone here and they'd think "that's a good-running Honda." And it is...well, except for the fact that it needs a new front crankshaft seal, but that I can fix.

    w261w261, thanks for the confirmation on the sensor.

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    Re: 89 lx-i wont restart after warm

    i still think that you have some major problem with ignition or one or multiple sensors failure.
    Alex.

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