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Thread: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

  1. #26
    2.0Si User SQ is the SQUAD's Avatar
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    i still got the 90 teg, i am going to be junking it soon. its a 4dr rs if anyone needs any parts. i took basically everythnig swap related.

    i was also considering cutting the mount brackets out of that frame from my accord.

    legend, did you have to cut your front cross member at all to get your header to fit, i know steve from CT with the ls/vtec had to knotch his
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by SQ is the SQUAD
    i still got the 90 teg, i am going to be junking it soon. its a 4dr rs if anyone needs any parts. i took basically everythnig swap related.

    i was also considering cutting the mount brackets out of that frame from my accord.

    legend, did you have to cut your front cross member at all to get your header to fit, i know steve from CT with the ls/vtec had to knotch his

    I took it completely off. It is only there to support the transmission since there is no tranny mount. Sorry to thread jack Accordtheory
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    You would recommend reinforcing the factory mount? It never occured to me that would be necessary..even with like 600whp. Have you ever tried to remove one of the factory mounts? I have, at my friends house with a disk grinder and a big hammer, and it was surprisingly difficult. We had to grind and beat the Shit out of that thing to get it to come off, especially for how thin the metal is. Those weird factory welds aren't bad.
    Also, if you start welding around all those seams, you're going to be gagging on a huge amount of smoke and toxic shit, even after you try to clean away all the paint and that weird sealer shit honda puts all over their welds/body connections. If you don't clear away all that shit nicely, you'll end up with a lousy weld. You can turn up the gas flow and heat to try to vaporize that all that shit, but still..probably better to clean it as well as you can first.

  4. #29
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by Accordtheory
    You would recommend reinforcing the factory mount? It never occured to me that would be necessary..even with like 600whp. Have you ever tried to remove one of the factory mounts? I have, at my friends house with a disk grinder and a big hammer, and it was surprisingly difficult. We had to grind and beat the Shit out of that thing to get it to come off, especially for how thin the metal is. Those weird factory welds aren't bad.
    Also, if you start welding around all those seams, you're going to be gagging on a huge amount of smoke and toxic shit, even after you try to clean away all the paint and that weird sealer shit honda puts all over their welds/body connections. If you don't clear away all that shit nicely, you'll end up with a lousy weld. You can turn up the gas flow and heat to try to vaporize that all that shit, but still..probably better to clean it as well as you can first.
    One of my friend has swapped LS motors into a couple of CRX's and that mount has broken on bolth of them. I will be scrapping and sanding before I weld that mount, I dont really need to do it yet, but I figure I might as well before it ever becomes a problem.
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  5. #30
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    preperation is key

    i have an angle grinder with wire brush ready to get down to bare metal before i start cutting and welding
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    That is weird about the breakage..I know several people with b series motors in their crxs, and no problems. Could you post a pic of that broken mount at some point? Maybe the mount was being stressed in a way it shouldn't have been..although one friend of mine ran his crx at the dragstrip with no front mount, a stock rubber back mount, stock passenger side mount, and poly driver side mount. Maximum stress, no problems. What kind of mount setup was on the car that had that bracket break..?
    disc grinder + wire brush is how i usually do it too, but on something like a mount, you can't get at every surface..

  7. #32
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by Accordtheory
    That is weird about the breakage..I know several people with b series motors in their crxs, and no problems. Could you post a pic of that broken mount at some point? Maybe the mount was being stressed in a way it shouldn't have been..although one friend of mine ran his crx at the dragstrip with no front mount, a stock rubber back mount, stock passenger side mount, and poly driver side mount. Maximum stress, no problems. What kind of mount setup was on the car that had that bracket break..?
    disc grinder + wire brush is how i usually do it too, but on something like a mount, you can't get at every surface..

    Well I dont have any pictures of the mount, but I can show you what I mean when I get home. It was the seem between the frame and the mount houseing that actaully seperated. Maybe his was rusted or something, but for it to happen to two seperate cars is just odd. He was running hasport mounts.
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by Accordtheory
    Thanks, bobafett..

    Having a b series is no big deal...If you have the kit. As far as I know, I am the only one to fabricate and complete the mounts myself.
    theres a guy here in oregon with a b16, he used all stock mounts from the 3 gee but the rear mount is custom

    Pretty good swap too. the car is a work in progress but the motors is in and drives

  9. #34
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by my86dx4dr
    theres a guy here in oregon with a b16, he used all stock mounts from the 3 gee but the rear mount is custom

    Pretty good swap too. the car is a work in progress but the motors is in and drives

    is that the kid with the yellow 3g
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by my86dx4dr
    theres a guy here in oregon with a b16, he used all stock mounts from the 3 gee but the rear mount is custom

    Pretty good swap too. the car is a work in progress but the motors is in and drives
    I'd be curious to see that..and not just to clown it..I'm actually curious. pics?

  11. #36

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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    you guys are forgetting juan (oldschoolswap). his first b16 was done custom.

  12. #37
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanilla Sky
    you guys are forgetting juan (oldschoolswap). his first b16 was done custom.

    I thought he had a PRI kit, I had no idea it was custom. That was the car that lead me to know that a b-series could go into a 3rd gen. I always liked the hatch, but I never considered buying one untill I saw his car.
    -My Car thread


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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    i miss juan

    dont see him around much
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    are there any pics of that setup floating around?

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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    First, about the notching of the crossmember. SQ is talking about the front one that goes across the car, not the front to back one. 88LXi68 had to make a big notch because he's got a 4-1 header. I have a 4-2-1 header and I just had to cut the lip off. You could probably clear it with the stock manifold or a 4-2-1 but I cut the lip off cause it was really close.

    2nd, remember Juan's had 2 3g's. His first had a B16 with a custom swap kit. The 2nd had/has the PRI kit.
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    I was, maybe still am, contemplating replacing the front crossmember with a different piece entirely. I'm trying to run a 3" downpipe through there. I won't run rod ends on my radius arms though, that is not a street setup. (no boot/lubrication)
    After pulling my entire exhaust off today, I was observing how the a20 downpipe clears the front to back crossmember, by going parallel to it, but with the b series, I guess I'll have to remove it due to the oil pan being more in the way. I don't want to though, I like having as much structural integrity as I can get.

  17. #42
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveDX89

    2nd, remember Juan's had 2 3g's. His first had a B16 with a custom swap kit. The 2nd had/has the PRI kit.


    what did the first one look like?
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend_master
    what did the first one look like?
    Same as the 2nd. He took everything and swapped it over.
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    a couple updates...I adapted an integra clutch cable to eliminate the ridiculous routing necessitated by the length of the stock cable..the integra cable itself (the inside) was too long (out of adjustment) so I had to cut a slot in a long nut, about an inch long, and fit it over the cable, hammering it flat to act as a spacer to take up the extra slack. I also used 2 of the same integra brackets on the valve cover, since the integra bay locates the cable a little differently. (stock integra 2 different brackets)

    I had the wrong upper bracket for my p/s pump, they create a different offset for the different pulley configuration depending on the years (90-93/94-01)..so I got the right one, p/s setup is done, looks clean..had to modify the hoses though.

    Still lagging on getting the steering knuckles so I can put my axles in..went the junkyard for the knuckes, ended up coming home with a whole b18..lol..but no knuckes..

    So once I get this stupid thing refereed, in go my 740cc injectors and my holset turbo, most likely on a top mount manifold. There is thread on h-t by a dude from full-race about dyno comparisons between one of their bottom mount and top mount manifolds, and the top mount kills the bottom mount across the entire rev range..both of the manifolds are over $1k..

    Also finally got a timing cover..

    I had to modify Every single thing in the engine bay. I even had to change my fpr to match the fuel return hose.
    I might change the throttle cable too..

    To connect the coolant hoses, I had to cut up a set of integra hoses to get th right fit with my civic radiator, and mix and match integra and accord heater hoses.
    I'll post pics soon. My goal is to have one of the cleanest engine bays in a 3g, too. It'll be hard to imagine this bay once being involved in a toasty situation that bubbled the shit out of my hood..(coolant is flammable. Believe that. Don't ever add coolant without water (that's all I had) if you have a leak that could get onto your exhaust, Especially with a turbo..

  20. #45
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by Accordtheory
    a couple updates...I adapted an integra clutch cable to eliminate the ridiculous routing necessitated by the length of the stock cable..the integra cable itself (the inside) was too long (out of adjustment) so I had to cut a slot in a long nut, about an inch long, and fit it over the cable, hammering it flat to act as a spacer to take up the extra slack. I also used 2 of the same integra brackets on the valve cover, since the integra bay locates the cable a little differently. (stock integra 2 different brackets)
    I had the wrong upper bracket for my p/s pump, they create a different offset for the different pulley configuration depending on the years (90-93/94-01)..so I got the right one, p/s setup is done, looks clean..had to modify the hoses though.
    Still lagging on getting the steering knuckles so I can put my axles in..went the junkyard for the knuckes, ended up coming home with a whole b18..lol..but no knuckes..
    So once I get this stupid thing refereed, in go my 740cc injectors and my holset turbo, most likely on a top mount manifold. There is thread on h-t by a dude from full-race about dyno comparisons between one of their bottom mount and top mount manifolds, and the top mount kills the bottom mount across the entire rev range..both of the manifolds are over $1k..
    Also finally got a timing cover..
    I had to modify Every single thing in the engine bay. I even had to change my fpr to match the fuel return hose.
    I might change the throttle cable too..
    To connect the coolant hoses, I had to cut up a set of integra hoses to get th right fit with my civic radiator, and mix and match integra and accord heater hoses.
    I'll post pics soon. My goal is to have one of the cleanest engine bays in a 3g, too. It'll be hard to imagine this bay once being involved in a toasty situation that bubbled the shit out of my hood..(coolant is flammable. Believe that. Don't ever add coolant without water (that's all I had) if you have a leak that could get onto your exhaust, Especially with a turbo..
    That all sounds like you are doing a real good job with your progress and damn your gas milage is going to suck with those injectors. A couple of questions I have are, why do you need a new knuckle is it for swap purposes or is there a problem with your old one. For the hoses I just used the factory Fuel return hose on the FPR and clamped it down tight, I used and integra lower radiator hose and clamped it down tight (yours should have worked with the civic one, but I don't know how you mounted the radiator or anything), and for the heater hose I used all the factory hoses without any problems. Good luck and keep us up-to-date with the project.
    -My Car thread


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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    I don't forsee any real mpg decrease with those injectors. If what I've been reading is true, I'll be cruising a little lean, around 15-15.:1 af with a little more timing. (leaner = higher dynamic compression, higher manifold press with the same fuel.. Compression has a tremendous effect on efficiency, this is sort of way of cheating) The only time where the 740s could be a little weak would be at idle, but my friend has the same ones on his wrx, and it idles fine. I think with my a/f and timing alterations, my mpg will be better than stock.
    Except when I boost..
    The reason why I had to cut up the hoses is the location of my civic radiator. It is a little over to the driver's side from where it would normally be, and I had to accomodate the coolant switch in the lower hose.

    The reason I am swapping the steering knuckles is the 8-87 brakes are garbage. Try stopping from 130 mph overheating and warping the shit out of your rotors. I figure since I have to replace my rotors and a lower ball joint, I might as well do the whole thing now. I already have the 88/89 disks and calipers.

  22. #47
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Ok we have a mission for everybody that ever goes to autozone. The length on the PRI axles are Drivers side 24 7/8" Passenger side 23 3/4". Lets all check every autozone you can think of to find something that is smilar to this axle length. Thanks to Hash_man for hookin us up with these numebrs.
    -My Car thread


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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Quote Originally Posted by Legend_master
    Ok we have a mission for everybody that ever goes to autozone. The length on the PRI axles are Drivers side 24 7/8" Passenger side 23 3/4". Lets all check every autozone you can think of to find something that is smilar to this axle length. Thanks to Hash_man for hookin us up with these numebrs.
    Problem is with everyone making their own mounts. One person could have their engine shifted over a 1/4" or something so the axles for one person won't work for them.
    No projects. Life consumes my time and money.

  24. #49

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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    Purdy rear mount you got there accordtheory.
    Very impressive.
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    Re: How to swap in a b series without a kit..pics inside

    are those lengths with the axles compressed all the way?

    The autozone in my town is always busy as f, I doubt they'd want to have customers lined up for like half an hour while they try to find me axles..maybe I'll try carquest or napa..

    but damn, now I don't even have cores, I just have new integra axles, there's no way I'm going to trade them in..

    So what are we looking at anyway? d series civic, older prelude, but no integra, or f22/h22 prelude/accord..? Not a lot of options here, the civic/crx/del sol/integra 90-93/94-01 basically the same shit, right? At least with a b series..I assume people use the integra axles with a swap into any of those chassis, so with that chassis, the stock d series axles are the only ones to look at..?
    What do the the crv front axles look like?

    Why don't the integra axles work anyway? Does the integra have a different track width/distance between the spindles than the 3g?

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