Any ideas what the stock duration length is from that??
Any ideas what the stock duration length is from that??
That valve timing diagram above states that the duration is 205/205 if that's what you mean?
A little picture to compare the pos stock B20A2 duration to stage 2 duration :D
Geez didn't think it was that low miracle it revs as high as they do?? That'll be the big valves involved me thinks!! So even a 246 degree would be a vast improvement hmm not sure which one to go for now!! Amazing the amount of difference you can see from those two pics who were the stage 2 cams made by??
Any ideas what the duration is on the JDM B20A cams are??
Surprised no many people have replied to B20A cams being available whought they were much in demand?
Intake jdm b20a cam is same as b20a5 intake cam. My instincts tell me the xhst cam for the jdm b20a is a little bit more aggressive than the b20a5 exhaust cam.
If my cams screw up, I'm going to go for some performance b18a cams and shave them. The rotating mass change won't make too much difference.
(and, rj, i sure wish I had a dyno anything. the motor now has more (of some things) and less (of others) and after tuning I'm more than certain I'll be where I want to be hp-wise.)
bury the bach.
yea hehe they look good. Those are Crower pieces.Originally Posted by rjudgey
As far as i remember from when i did an eye measure comparisment of the b20a and b20a2 cams i couldnt tell any difference in the duration.
These are really nice news!!! Thanks again rjudgey for the searching.
The September I am finish with university, and I am thinking to find a job and start working in a new 3Geez accord (not that of my father).
The problem is that B20A never came to Greece, and there is no parts support from the official Honda dealer....
No timing belts, no clutch, no valve-cam seals, nothing.
Everything must be order from U.K...
So the problem for me is if I'll do a B20A2 (from a UK 2.0I-16 car) swap
or I'll go the more expensive route with one jdm B18C-R swap.
We'll see in the future.....
But otherwise these are good news.
I think one B20A with
Jdm ITR pistons (carotman mod) , with 12:1 C/R.
Jenvey ITB with big injectors.
Cat cams or crower-crane B18 modified cams.
Custom exhaust and header 4-1.
Lightened flywheel and new clutch
OBD-1 conversion with dynotuned stand alone ECU.
Could easily make 250+hp flywheel or 230 whp with tons of torque and at lower revs than the newer VTEC DOHC engines.
The problem is the availability of parts, and that everything must be custom,
per example the JENVEY ITB must be slightly modified from a newer B VTEC engine through there isn't any mass production bolt on JENVEY kit for B20A...
For the head I think stock B20A valve springs and retainers could make it until 8000rpm rev limit.
Versanick's engine must be the most powerful N/A B20A at the moment, hope to make 220+hp on Dyno, after tuning.
ACCORD 3G RUNS FOR EVER
You could allways import over a European B20A Lude or Accord and use it as a donor car or if you find a good one like thegreatdane use that instead.
Anyways as far as those mods go for a B20A thats what i was planning on anyways.
Designed new headwork specific to the B20A only
Designed Big valve conversion for B20A only
Designed and custom fabbed new inlet manifold for Jenvey ITB's or Weber Carbs, 10 degree down angle and extra long 5.5" length runners with flanges and anti vibration mounts will be nearly 6 inches.
Camshafts from Cat Cams looking at the 278 degree duration and 11mm lift ones with Cat cams Retainers and springs. (I really don't think B20A springs can go much higher than 7k safely they are very weak compared to A18 or ET springs)
Custom Header with 2.25" mandrel bent system no Cat
Will be running Webers first to save on cost and i have a pair not doing much at the moment.
But what i need is some more info on the best pistons/Rods to use good value for money nothing too pricey can't quite afford forged yet. But would be nice to get a CR ratio of 11:1 or maybe 11.5-12:1 if the Head Gasket can hold it using Ajusa as i can get those real cheap.
Hoping to be able to hit around 230+bhp with it still being reasonable to drive on the road.
That's a really nice set-up rjudgey!!!
I disagree only in the exhaust selection.....I think 2.75" is better through this is a 2.0L DOHC engine....
In U.S.A they use 2.25" and 2.5" for 1.6L and 1.8L tuned B16 and b18 engines.
2.75" would be Ok for 250hp.
As for C/R
B20A goes 11:1 C/R with just stock B16A pistons and you can find them with only £40 second hand from a scrap yard (in good condition) + new rings.
If you want more C/R the best is what carotman has done but not with USDM ITR pistons but with jdm ITR pistons.
You can get 11.8:1 C/R and with slightly milling hit 12:1 C/R.
New jdm ITR pistons cost £270 in U.K with rings.
From U.S.A you can get them for $300 plus shipping.
ACCORD 3G RUNS FOR EVER
Is there any mods for B16A pistons might look at aftermarket set of those maybe but will need an oversize as the spare B20A block has small amount of corrosion in one cylinder plus you can't beat a bit of extra CC will help boost CR ratio too!! Will need at least a 1mm oversize is there any mods i need to do to the rods or pistons to fit the stock rods? Any aftermarket rods worth thinking about??
Thanks for the info want to start building up the spare engine so i can do a straight swap out save mucking about.
P.S. any info on best clutch/flywheel solution would be usefull as well thanks.
Hmm not sure about the exhaust size a well made mandrel bent 2.25" should do the trick upto 250bhp as well really, too big can reduce velocity and reduce the effectiveness of the system also pain in the bum fitting anything else much bigger than 2.25" we'll see depends how far i want to go with this car i don't think the shell could take that kinda power might start looking for a 3G aerodeck to drop the engine into that is not quite so rotten found a nice one on EBAY with very low mileage one owner and garage kept in Monetery Green though not too bad a colour could be Burghandy or Gold i suppose!! running out of good quality 2G lude shells i would have loved to have had a 3G accord coupe but they were never imported to U.K. same as the Hatch too there nice as well none here either!! Anyone know the weight of a 3G aerodeck??
Also one other quickie whats the availability of quality suspension upgrades like?? can you get Koni's or Bilstein still or are they discontinued like the 2G ludes? Also the suspension at the back the same on Aerodeck and Saloon?
Yes Rjudgey, you can use any 81mm piston (or oversize versions 81.25, 81.5, 82mm) from newer B DOHC Honda engines.
I think you must use B20A rod, B20A piston pin and slightly machined pistons (from newer B series) through the B20A pin is larger by 1mm (22mm instead of 21mm of newer B series).
That’s what Carotman has done in his engine and works well, as far as we know.
Then new bearings-crank metals (stock) for your rebuilt engine.
I thing Forged rods for B20A must be custom, but you can shot pining the stock ones together with new rod bolts.
Accord Aerodeck is a really nice car, and I think is handling better that the Prelude 2G if you interest about track circuit.
Weight for EXI is 1105 kg, and with B20A will be about the same (Stock A20 is cast iron).
So is heavier than the Prelude 2G 2.0I-16 which weights 1050-1060kg but not big difference.
There are many types of springs and Coilovers available for Accord 3G ( you can use Civic 4G,5G,6G, Accord 4G and INTEGRA 3G coilovers as well) but Koni dampers are discontinued.
You must use either Tokico or KYB (cheap and good) or Bilstein revalved (expensive).
ACCORD 3G RUNS FOR EVER
I'd go as light as possible on the rods and pistons if you want to reach those high numbers, dunno how much ITR pistons weigh compared to stock B20A ones but I doubt they'd be any lighter. Anybody got any numbers?
Lok, I'll be looking forward to see what you can come up with when you get a new 3g. Hard choice on the ITR and B20A engines though, an ITR engine isnt too expencive any more but then again it's not the true 3rd gen engine :)
I'm off to watch some telly, F1 is on, they're driving in the US today.
Okay then so let me get this clear in my head.
To raise CR ratio i need to use B16A pistons or B18C pistons
but i have to machine the pistons to fit onto the B20A rods as the B20A has a 22mm piston pin and the others are 21mm?
Does anyone know how far out the valve relief pockets are if any? as with a 278 degree cam i would have thought that if they were not in line will end up in bent valves happening.
If i don't get stock B16 or B18 whats a good alternative can 3G lude pistons be used? and what about the B21 pistons?
Sorry about all the noob questions all my research on parts has only really been done on A20/ET/ET1/ES/A18/BS/BT although at least i did find some quality B20A cams ;0)
Dear Rjudgey, You are right about the piston job. That’s all you must do, to connect the 22mm pin of B20A pistons to B20A rods using newer B series pistons.
As I said before, you can have 11:1 C/R with B16A pistons or 12:1 C/R with jdm ITR pistons (from jdm B18C-R) with slightly milling of the head (cleaning).
This is the best way to increase C/R, through without serious milling you can just set the cams to Honda 0,0 points and you will not need any more money for custom cam gears.
B16A pistons and B18C-R pistons have very large pockets and I don’t thing that you will have any problem using performance cams.
By the way B20A pistons are flat on the top.
Think about it with 1.5-2.5 points increase in C/R you can gain easy 15-25hp, this is the best mod I think you can make for B20a and do not cost that much money.
As for weight of piston, I think this will not be a problem through newer VTEC engines rev at 8000+ rpm stock, so those pistons must be good enough for a B20A to rev over 7000rpm.
More specs about newer Honda engines and B20A5 (prelude 3G) here:
Dear Thegreatdane the problem with B20A as I said, is the availability of parts, otherwise I will love to have one B20a on my 3Geez…this engine maybe is less powerful than the newer Honda top engines, but still has the best torque curve (more torque even from the F20C of S2000) until 6000 rpm+ as your Dyno proved and POWER=TORQUE*RPM and this is (in my point of view) very critical.
Also I believe one B20A with some mods can rich 200+hp status and still be overall cheaper swap than one B18C-R engine……. So we’ll see in the future.
ACCORD 3G RUNS FOR EVER
rjudgey, you can use H23 rods, they are the same size except for being a hair bit longer as far as I understand.
The 3g lude B20A7 (only B20A7) engines have 10.5:1 c/r. Those pistons would be certain to fit but of course not that big of a c/r change..
Lok, about the weight, since our stroke and rods are so long I think that having lighter pistons is even more important in our B20A engines than in the vtec B-series. Of course if you dont plan to make power above 6500-7000 rpm this might be less important.
The "R" pistons have a Moly coating on them that reduces friction too... this is a nice advantage.
3geez member since July 12 2000
I need these parts!
hmm thats interesting if it's a longer rod that will up the CR ratio even more especially if the chambers are matched perfectly to the bore?
What pistons will fit onto the h23 Rod anyone know the pin size?
I take it that the H23 Bearings fit onto the B20A crank as well.
Thanks guy's for all the info much appreciated any other suitable budget type off the shelf parts you think miught be usefull to my re-built B20A just let us know thanks.
Also nearly became a true 3Geez member yesterday nearly bought a 3g Aerodeck saw one on Ebay 54k miles one owner garaged kept all it's life manual as well Montery green mettalic EXI was at £180 but right at the last minute some swine gazumped me and put it through the roof went at £770 in the end was probably worth the money but i was after a bargain and over £500 wasn't so much of a bargain. So for now still got 2 2G ludes and my baby Beemer!!
H23 rods use the same piston pin size as the B20A. The lenght difference is too tiny to be significant though I think.
Now go get yourself an aerodeck already. 770 quid does sound like a bargain
H23 Rods know any good aftermarket ones?? If they are a direct replacement and B20A pistons fit on i might just get a replacement set of B20A7 pistons as well unless your pretty sure that the B16/18 ones are safe to re-bore the pin holes just seems a bit dodgy thats all?
Anyone know what the Rod length is on H23 whats the difference .25mm .5mm? any increase is a bonus for CR ratio!
Oh also whats the deal on clutches and flywheels did a search is the B20A5 flywheel the only close fit anything better suited that doesn't need grinding on the gearbox?
Also am i right in saying that A20 pressure plate and clutch fits but i need a throw out bearing from B20A??
I can only get LUK/Ferrodo clutch kits for B20A if i'm going to be turning 200+bhp would like something from clutchnet in there if it means sticking with stock flywheel and just having it machine lighter but able to use A20 clutchnet disk and plate i'd be happy with that but obviously a ally flywheel would be nice too? Would a A20 flywheel fit with minimal mods?? thanks
I know that the A20 flywheel bolts to the B20A but I dont know if it clears the bell housing of the tranny. And yes you need a B20A throwout bearing.Originally Posted by rjudgey
Some of the B20A5 guys use a B16 flywheel, but mind you those dont have any TDC marks on them.
I have yet to consult a machinist about the safety of boring out the pistons for a larger piston pin, but then again several people are running them like that.
If a A20 one fits then what about a ET/A18 flywheel ?? thats has the same bolt pattern as A20 flywheel