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Thread: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... please

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    Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... please

    I am sure everything I am about to ask has somewhere been covered. I can also assure you I did my due diligence in attempting to self help by searching on my own. With that in mind, if your answer is gonna be rude, can you please work some useful info into the insult.

    87 accord (A20A1) 2.0 (carb.)

    Sheared a number of teeth below crank on timing belt at 10-15 mph in neautral at a coast. I did try to start it a couple times, as the timing belt appeared intact on cam pulley. Inspected valves from top side. No obvious issues... New belt on. Things seemed fine. Process involved cutting away timing belt lower cover.

    6 months later... 90 mile round trip drive, car ran fine at start.... Became will I make it home by the end. Compression test showed 130-0-0-115. No water in oil, no gas in oil, exaust seemed as usual, except some cold start smoking had started after T. Belt issue. Car would start to run warm at times, with full coolant. I would also hear what sounded like a massive air pocket go through heater core, at times, and realized it would cool back to normal temp. after that happened. Im thinking valves, but also maybe head gasket. Its my only vehicle so have to drive it during this time. Hear water pump bearring failing. Day before I i tend to replace it fails, and pulley breaks away from pump.... Alternator belt now being free and bored decides its gonna do a little dance, and make a little love with the (i know.. I know) open timing belt. This happens at 60, and I know I am not just slapping a belt on this time.

    Tear down results..

    Blown head gasket between 2 dead cylcinders, almost every valve is bent to some degree, and multiple cracks between spark plug holes, and valves.

    Grab a head from wrecking yard of car with with timing belt and head gasket intact. To machine shop for inspection. Valves all good, .008 out of flat. Have it surfaced, change out the valve seals since I had em and put it all back together.

    I was by the book on tightening pattern and steps for intake to head out of car, then installed as 1. Again by the book on head tightening sequence and such. All vacuum lines clearly marked and returned proper. Carb gasket installed meticulously.... And now massive vacuum leak. Car wont even idle. Starting fluid seems to react around base of carb. Pull carb, replace gaskets, reinstall.... Still major vacuum leak. There are 2 very short vacuum lines that go from the metal vacuum tubes (one from each side of motor,) to a dual nipple location on the end of a short pipe that goes into the back of the intake below the carb. I didnt see this pipe until it was out of intake during removal. It doesn't appear broken, but I have a hard time believing it is just stuffed into intake. Is this supposed to be part of the intake and I damaged it, or is there some seal that is missing or somewhere inside intake? On the vacuum diagram this piece I speak of is the only one that has its lines represented by dotted lines... And it is in the 4 o'clock position of the note "TO B" in the diagram. If not this connection... Where else should I be looking, or whats the best home test to find this leak? Also on a couple of occasions after searching for this leak, when I start the car it holds a good idle. Within minutes of a test drive it reverts back to dying unless I am on the gas.. constantly feathering it. Timing has also been double checked... as well as valve adjustments.

    Also, the lower radiator hose goes to the pipe running along back of head. The heater hoses split off immediately... And then after the motor mount... There is a smaller line that comes out and runs up under intake where there is something that almost looks like a small inline fuel filter.. Then becomes hose again.... Which then goes????? I just cant seem to find its home. The way it bends and such, it seems to want to go to back of intake area somewhere.

    I apologize for the length of this post. As I said its my only transportation, and finances are getting rough with car being down for weeks. I have also been told my fathers health is failing at more than an alarming rate. I need to be able to get to him ASAP... Actually... Like yesterday even.

    I really need some guidance in these matters, and thank you in advance.



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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    So the main issue is the way it idles? Are you sure the carb isn't needing some love?
    Dr_Snooz

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    if you suspect a vacuum leak, I would do a smoke test. if you have access to a smoke machine, great! but if not, get a cigar or joint or whatever, maybe a buddy who chainsmokes, and pop off the timing vacuum line that goes to the distributor and blow smoke into it. once you fill the vacuum system with smoke you will see the leak clearly - if there is no leak you will eventually see smoke come out of the carb/crankcase/ect depending on your car set up.

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Check the fuel shutoff solenoid on the back of the carburetor. I once had a trouble with that solenoid. It received no power and kept shutting the fuel to the carb at idle.

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    OMG... Help. Ty. Just saw all 3 responses. I have been sitting here for hours reading through every single title then posts for possible help.. and finally settled on stalling Dr. Snooze as he seemed to answer a lot.... So I selected.. his last post.. and it led me to mine.. lmao. Give me a moment to look into your responses. Sorry for any delays.

    1.) No.. Dr. Snooze ... Power is low. Running rough in general. Not sure carb. Doesn't need more than tlc.... But before I pulled it apart it worked better than this. Honestly I think the carb needs to take a trip to fees the crabs... However it was functioning well enough before. It won't idle. It was dying anytime I let off the gas, but I had an open pcv valve. Replacing that, it now pretty much dies just before I come to a stop. If I am at 30-40-50 and coast....it stays running as I coast.

    2.) No smoke machine.. and broke to the point of gonna run out of gas tomorrow if I don't get some work. I will chain smoke.. are you referring to line #2 or #25 to chainsmok into. I tried them both remembering that one doesn't have vacuum to it always. I got smoke out of the air filter housing and when i removed it... It was coming from carb and 2 lines normally connected to air filter ll ok (^^)(^^)

    3.) I will look into testing this... But it does seem the carb is actually being flooded not cut off.

    In all my reading tonight I have discovered that I suspect I broke the tube to the black box below pvc valve and thought it was press fit, and back in there. Need to verify, but doesn't sound like this is a bad enough leak for my case.

    I lean hard toward this mystery tube into the back of the manifold that has 2 vacuum lines that come out of it. They are not numbered... This thing doesn't seem to have any seals around it and is kind of loose.

    I also don't believe the timing is correct, but the person I had help me the first time did it again the same way.. and it seemed to run fine before. The tensioner spring was disconnected before.. and I hooked it back up this second time. In my original post I said I had checked it twice... This check was having my help just redo it. No light. I tried to check it tonight as I finally found a timing light to borrow, and the bastard slipped out of my hand, and dropped 6" or so to the garage floor... And blinked no more.... Before I could actually check it. That is gonna suck to deal with.
    Last edited by Grinder_1; 05-29-2019 at 03:25 AM. Reason: Additional information

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Oh.. and I see posts that say these are not interference engines... I am curious why I had nice little clean spots in the carbon on my pistons that were symmetrical, and lined up too nicely with my valve locations... Along with many.. most valves bent. I might be new, but I first hand believe they are.

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    well you first observation at idle your ok but at 60 mph or 3k rpms pretty good chance the valves will hit.

    Besides what you are doing I would look and make sure the timing belt has the cam and crank aligned at TDC good chance its a tooth off.

    if it looks good I would move the timing(advance) until you feel it runs better since your light is gone. The idle will go up as you advance the timing. It will audbile ping,driving, if you go to far.

    If you have an air compressor you can try and pressurize the intake system for a leak using your hand over the carb. A few pounds of pressure should show a leak if there is one.
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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Update... I gave the idles adjustment knob in back of carb a turn or two, and have achieved an idle. Just got a hold of another timing light.. this one with a 60 degree advance... And adjusting dizzy to both extremes and as well as using the advance from 0 to 60 degrees I see no timing marks. Knowing that the person I had assisting me with this has done this many times... I am starting to think Of have been given the wrong timing belt, and or he just flat out f'd up. Anyone happen to know the number of teeth that should be between crank and cam? Maybe #1 being the first tooth not on crank and the last one before contact with cam?

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinder_1 View Post
    Update... I gave the idles adjustment knob in back of carb a turn or two, and have achieved an idle. Just got a hold of another timing light.. this one with a 60 degree advance... And adjusting dizzy to both extremes and as well as using the advance from 0 to 60 degrees I see no timing marks. Knowing that the person I had assisting me with this has done this many times... I am starting to think Of have been given the wrong timing belt, and or he just flat out f'd up. Anyone happen to know the number of teeth that should be between crank and cam? Maybe #1 being the first tooth not on crank and the last one before contact with cam?
    Thats the part about checking TDC. The crank marks on the fly wheel and the cam marks all need to be lined up so the valve timing is correct.
    1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    They were lined up when I started, but I have no lower cover to compare to. Thought maybe a tooth count might be possible.

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Quote Originally Posted by Grinder_1 View Post
    They were lined up when I started, but I have no lower cover to compare to. Thought maybe a tooth count might be possible.
    https://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-ac...valve-tdc.html

    lower plastic cover has nothing to do with checking TDC.EDIT: I see on some google pictures the newer Hondas use the the timing belt cover 3g DO NOT. I would replace it since it keeps things from getting into the timing belt and it jumping a tooth.

    The window to look at the marks is on the transmission bell housing it has a rubber plug covering usually. its where you look to sett your spark timing also. the white "cross" mark is TDC is on the flywheel. The red marks is for setting the timing. The cam sprocket has marks that align horizontally with the head an usually the word up.

    Since your motor is running I wouldnt worry to much about this part but you also want to make sure you are on the COMPRESSION stroke. #1 piston at the top both valves closed.

    https://www.justanswer.com/honda/1zg...ming-mark.html

    I cant use there picture but its on this link above.
    Last edited by Oldblueaccord; 05-30-2019 at 01:26 PM. Reason: edit some wording
    1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord View Post
    https://www.3geez.com/forum/3geez-ac...valve-tdc.html

    lower plastic cover has nothing to do with checking TDC.EDIT: I see on some google pictures the newer Hondas use the the timing belt cover 3g DO NOT. I would replace it since it keeps things from getting into the timing belt and it jumping a tooth.

    The window to look at the marks is on the transmission bell housing it has a rubber plug covering usually. its where you look to sett your spark timing also. the white "cross" mark is TDC is on the flywheel. The red marks is for setting the timing. The cam sprocket has marks that align horizontally with the head an usually the word up.

    Since your motor is running I wouldnt worry to much about this part but you also want to make sure you are on the COMPRESSION stroke. #1 piston at the top both valves closed.

    https://www.justanswer.com/honda/1zg...ming-mark.html

    I cant use there picture but its on this link above.
    1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
    336k miles running strong!
    Now running E85.

    My Acura Type R front brake thread

    https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...r+brake+option

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Sorry... I was being tired when I last posted. At tdc on the compression stroke (via window on tranny side) and feeli g with plig out. Things look in order on cam side. If i was sold the wrong belt could this cause what I am experiencing?
    Last edited by Grinder_1; 05-30-2019 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Additional info

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Ok... Correct me if I am wrong..... A bad plug wire would cause this same condition? Thinking.. yes.. I decided since I have all the plugs out to do a compression test i would plug them in and see if they all have spark.... I also decided this would be easier seen and look cooler if I had all lights off... And my discovery is this... My main coil wire is arching to the wire on top of the thermostat housing. This implies to me that my plugs are not always getting their spark as needed. My question now is.... If the coil wire itself is the problem or if it is my cap. Cap and distributor are fairly new. Changed a few monhs before the car went down due to a bad vacuum advance.

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Update: I had to walk away from it for a week due to family emergency. Upon return, I tested plug wires with ohmmeter and got (on 20k setting) about 1.00 reading. Bought new wires that measured 10-11.00, and installed. Disconnected vacuum advance and plugged them. Timed car right in to 24 BTDC as labeled under hood. Car held idle at about 1k, and drove better than I think it ever has. Plugging vacuum advance back in caused it to run worse, and didnt seem to move to proper timing location. I will continue to try to figure why this is, but for now... Going with the " it works.. Dont touch it" philosophy. Still needs a long test drive, but I have better confidence now. Thought I was gonna have to put her down. At 385,000 miles.. She has been good to me. Thanks for the help. I will do searches for the vacuum advance cause... Unless anyone that reads this wants to chime in.

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    I'd say you found your vacuum leak. Replace that vacuum pot.
    Dr_Snooz

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    I bought a new distributor.. Just to get the advance unit only a few months ago. The original one failed a vac. pump test, and I couldnt locate just the advance part of the unit. I will have to get a vacuum pump and see if it fails. Dont think I will be too happy if it does. Have taken her out on a 75 mile drive, and she seems pretty happy... Except that my dash temp. gauge now seems to be attached to my throttle. I give the carngas, and temp drops. At 60+ it bottoms out and stays there till I let off, at which point as my speed slows.. It rises back up to norm. operating temp. I haven't done any searching for why yet. Maybe I should retain a priest for an exorcism.

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    Re: Greetings from Seattle... Possible newbie, but def. am desperate for advice... pl

    Why would you buy a new distributor and leave the old one in the car?
    Dr_Snooz

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