Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

  1. #1
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    I've been searching high and low this afternoon for ignition mods, but the search doesn't like 3 letter words so "msd" and "6AL" are out. Has anyone used one in these cars? I'm actually trying to reverse engineer one, I just need confirmation how its hooked up and such. The manual is pretty vague on the workings of the ignitor, but it seems to be just a transistor, aka spark voltage is really flipping low. If I can get the information squared away I'll start building immediately and post it all in this thread. I've seen a few impressive engine control mods done here, but yall are pretty much are all fuel injected or obd1/computerized, my goal is to be as basic as possible and I know for a fact that the circuit in the 6AL that would be used for a carbed 3g is pretty simple and only needs the core components of whats in that box. In other words, I'm not paying $250 for some secret sauce.

    Edit: I'm actually not 100% sure how well this will work, there's a few obstacles that must be overcome: tachometer output, spark duration, transient response, current draw. These are just all unknowns, but what I do know is I can charge a capacitor and get the full 45kv out of my MSD Blaster 2 coil.

    Here is some of the sources I have been looking at:
    http://web.tiscalinet.it/giordy/ECU/msd6a_02.pdf
    https://www.homemade-circuits.com/ho...ive-discharge/
    https://www.elprocus.com/capacitor-d...ystem-working/
    https://www.preludepower.com/forums/...d.php?t=233619
    Last edited by ShiRen; 05-18-2019 at 09:40 PM.



  2. #2
    LXi User Shane86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Vehicle
    86 honda accord lxi 3 door hatchback
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    795

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Look into mega jolt

  3. #3
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane86 View Post
    Look into mega jolt
    Megajolt is crank fired ignition. I think its really cool, but its not what I want to do. Somebody else is doing it right now, I would like to keep my mechanical distributor over a computerized system, and its more than I want to spend, probably moreso than a 6AL after coils. Megajolt is also a wasted spark system afik, if its based off Ford EDIS, distributors best pont is that they are direct fire per say, they only fall flat against distributorless direct fire because there is only 1 coil to charge vs 4 though. A capacitive discharge system such as the 6AL can out perform a wasted spark system given that your coil is heavy enough, the downside is there is a lot more wear, low rpm can suffer, and peak rpm (youll never reach it with an A20) is reduced. Distributor uses 1 coil for 4 cyl, wasted spark uses 1 coil for 2, distributorless direct fire uses 1 for 1, the coils can only charge and collapse so fast.
    Last edited by ShiRen; 05-18-2019 at 06:50 PM.

  4. #4
    LXi User InAccordance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX Sedan / 2000 Accord EX v6
    Posts
    711

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    I have a thread in the Performance section of my megajolt conversion. Still a work in progress cause other shit keeps breaking and I work 5 days and I still have to daily the car but I'll get it done one day...
    Oh, and I'm carbed.
    I had an MSD box on the Prelude I had but frankly I dont even remember how to wire them up. Been 12+ years ago lol. Do know it works though.
    Originally posted by ShiRen:
    Nice car or not, nobody likes losing a race to an old 4 door Honda.

  5. #5
    LXi User InAccordance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX Sedan / 2000 Accord EX v6
    Posts
    711

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Look on Preludepower.com. Pretty sure there is an MSD box how-to write-up somewhere there. I remember using it back then. I do remember it being pretty simple to wire even for a FI car. I used a Blaster SS coil and 11mm plug wires, it worked pretty well.
    Originally posted by ShiRen:
    Nice car or not, nobody likes losing a race to an old 4 door Honda.

  6. #6
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Quote Originally Posted by InAccordance View Post
    I have a thread in the Performance section of my megajolt conversion. Still a work in progress cause other shit keeps breaking and I work 5 days and I still have to daily the car but I'll get it done one day...
    Oh, and I'm carbed.
    I had an MSD box on the Prelude I had but frankly I dont even remember how to wire them up. Been 12+ years ago lol. Do know it works though.
    Don't worry, I am watching that, its really cool.
    I think I know how to hook it up just from reading pages 24-3, 24-9, and 24-12 in the manual but I will check around there too

  7. #7
    LXi User Shane86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Vehicle
    86 honda accord lxi 3 door hatchback
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    795

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiRen View Post
    Megajolt is crank fired ignition. I think its really cool, but its not what I want to do. Somebody else is doing it right now, I would like to keep my mechanical distributor over a computerized system, and its more than I want to spend, probably moreso than a 6AL after coils. Megajolt is also a wasted spark system afik, if its based off Ford EDIS, distributors best pont is that they are direct fire per say, they only fall flat against distributorless direct fire because there is only 1 coil to charge vs 4 though. A capacitive discharge system such as the 6AL can out perform a wasted spark system given that your coil is heavy enough, the downside is there is a lot more wear, low rpm can suffer, and peak rpm (youll never reach it with an A20) is reduced. Distributor uses 1 coil for 4 cyl, wasted spark uses 1 coil for 2, distributorless direct fire uses 1 for 1, the coils can only charge and collapse so fast.
    I completely understand. I'm one of those OBD1 fuel-injected guys so I am really not too much help. I do know the blue wire from your stock coil is rpm signal and the black with yellow striped is 12 volt power source. But that's fuel injected

  8. #8
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane86 View Post
    I completely understand. I'm one of those OBD1 fuel-injected guys so I am really not too much help. I do know the blue wire from your stock coil is rpm signal and the black with yellow striped is 12 volt power source. But that's fuel injected
    Yeah, there is actually 2 blue wires... For some reason Honda used only used 4 colors for 6 or 7 wires in the ignition circuit, its really convenient
    One is tach, the other is the pulse from the ignitor, the one coming from the distributor is the pulse. I think I have gotten that much figured out, but I am contemplating on revising the ignitor as well being as it looks like its becoming obsolete.

  9. #9
    LXi User Shane86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Vehicle
    86 honda accord lxi 3 door hatchback
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    795

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Good luck with it I hope you figure it out

  10. #10
    2.0Si User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Vehicle
    88 LXi
    Location
    Knoxville TN
    Posts
    3,940

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    The big thing is multi spark at the lower RPMS. On performance cars esp with large camshafts with over lap this really fights misfires.

    Problem with MSD is there quality is junk and there so many Chinese knock offs I wouldnt bother running it.

    Summit racing has a multi spark box that claims made in America and is the same design as all the other multi spark boxes.
    1988 Lxi owner since August 1995
    336k miles running strong!
    Now running E85.

    My Acura Type R front brake thread

    https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthrea...r+brake+option

  11. #11
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldblueaccord View Post
    The big thing is multi spark at the lower RPMS. On performance cars esp with large camshafts with over lap this really fights misfires.

    Problem with MSD is there quality is junk and there so many Chinese knock offs I wouldnt bother running it.

    Summit racing has a multi spark box that claims made in America and is the same design as all the other multi spark boxes.
    Right, and my goal is to actually replicate the capacitive discharge system. 500v to the coil, 125mj spark. I don't think multiple spark will really benefit me with the stock cam and it will really suck to build from scratch.

  12. #12
    LXi User InAccordance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX Sedan / 2000 Accord EX v6
    Posts
    711

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    On stock cam with stock induction, nah probably wouldn't do much. Throttle response would be more snappy though.
    Originally posted by ShiRen:
    Nice car or not, nobody likes losing a race to an old 4 door Honda.

  13. #13
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    I have a set of bike carbs I am going to put on when I get another intake manifold to chop. One could only wish you could even still get cams, though I guess I can regrind

  14. #14
    LXi User Shane86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Vehicle
    86 honda accord lxi 3 door hatchback
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    795

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShiRen View Post
    I have a set of bike carbs I am going to put on when I get another intake manifold to chop. One could only wish you could even still get cams, though I guess I can regrind
    There's quite a bit of options for cams. Delta, Colt, Webbs, crane, bisimoto

  15. #15
    LXi User InAccordance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX Sedan / 2000 Accord EX v6
    Posts
    711

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Webcam has some in stock the last I looked.
    Are you looking for a stock carb manifold?
    Originally posted by ShiRen:
    Nice car or not, nobody likes losing a race to an old 4 door Honda.

  16. #16
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    I think I am going to go to delta with a second cam, webcam shows a ballpark of $400 for a regrind, so I don't think they have a stock. I sent delta an email request for a quote.

    Id love to find a cam gear too, Bisimoto still sells valve springs, but I think in the past year he stopped selling cam gears, or maybe Im dreaming. Id like to look for other valve spring options anyhow, I just happened to see them.

    As for the cdi progress, I only need to find out what I need for a transformer, then I can order components and get it mocked up

  17. #17
    LXi User InAccordance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX Sedan / 2000 Accord EX v6
    Posts
    711

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    I still kick myself for selling the cam gear I had years ago. Took part in a group buy in preludepower but the car was totalled before I could use it. Held onto the gear for a while but ended up selling it cause I didn't think I get another A motor years later...
    Originally posted by ShiRen:
    Nice car or not, nobody likes losing a race to an old 4 door Honda.

  18. #18
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Id love to know what the difference is vs some of the other honda cam gears

  19. #19
    LXi User InAccordance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX Sedan / 2000 Accord EX v6
    Posts
    711

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Size mostly.
    I think sohc d series are larger round vs the dohc stuff being smaller diameter.
    Originally posted by ShiRen:
    Nice car or not, nobody likes losing a race to an old 4 door Honda.

  20. #20
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    I hoped ot wasnt something like that, if it was the inside diameter being different I think I could make do. Im assuming f series is larger too.

  21. #21
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Well I didn't want to abandon my cdi project, but I saw an auction on ebay for an msd 6200 6A last night for $60 shipped, I just won the auction. I'll crack it open and make sure its ok and the components are in spec once I get it. If anybody is super upset that I'm not building an msd equivalent cdi I can still I guess, but I'm assuming building one from scratch is a bit above the level of what most guys will try to make and run on their car. I'll still post the innards of the 6A and the testing, as well as the installation. Still need to make my arduino cruise control too, I bought a few arduinos to get started on it, but its so easy to control the speed on the highway it hasnt bothered me recently lol

  22. #22
    LXi User InAccordance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX Sedan / 2000 Accord EX v6
    Posts
    711

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Nice deal. Thought about getting one for the megajolt but figured it's already wasted spark so wouldn't really do much.
    Originally posted by ShiRen:
    Nice car or not, nobody likes losing a race to an old 4 door Honda.

  23. #23
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Sounds like a good way to melt down a stock ford coil lol. Hey if you feel extra froggy you can always ditch the megajolt for something like a megasquirt and go coil on plug... 370z coils would look mint dangling between the exhaust ports.

  24. #24
    LXi User InAccordance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Vehicle
    1989 Accord LX Sedan / 2000 Accord EX v6
    Posts
    711

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Could.. but this my first time doing this so got to learn on something simple lol
    Maybe in the future if I ever want to go ITBs and full on FI
    Originally posted by ShiRen:
    Nice car or not, nobody likes losing a race to an old 4 door Honda.

  25. #25
    DX User ShiRen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Vehicle
    87 Accord DX
    Posts
    49

    Re: MSD 6AL/Capacitive discharge, what's been done?

    Itbs on an a series... You know at that point you may have fallen off your rocker, but who am I to judge because I was thinking a coil on plug setup would work good if youre running a big draw through turbo

Similar Threads

  1. R-12 Discharge/Evacuate
    By rogueaccord in forum 3geez Accords
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-17-2002, 08:16 PM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
VigLink badge