Rebuilt Manual transmission - how it works.

You can rebuild the manual transmission with it still in the car.

Once you have the passengers side tire and hub removed you can take the side of the trans case off and pull it off. Push the 5th gear shifter down and you can wiggle it off carefully. It takes a bit of wiggly and you have to angle it but it does come off rather easily once you know what you're doing.

This makes it much faster and easier since you can leave all the motor mounts on and don't have to actually drop the trans or remove any of the oil lines.
Mine was leaking oil and I needed a new clutch so I figured I might as well rebuilt it while I had it out. My leak was from the pump seal but I replaced all seals, bearings, and sychro blocker rings. Sealing gaskets with kit I bought were actually paper and so I used a little black rtv (for oil) to help seal it.

I recently rebuilt mine. Anyone have any questions?

Pictures of interior of transmission.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1aZ...iirhQH3IiZnYsh
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1H2...16bCestIccvlZF

Edit: More info. You do need a high powered impact to properly remove the two nuts on the shafts under the end cap. That or two large wrenches, but the impact is best.

You will really want an impact to remove the bell housing, makes the job tons faster. Although a ratchet will still do the job. You will NEED a u-joint or two to reach everything properly. But you need that inside the trans anyway to reach half the bolts. I recommend 90 degree u-joints in 1/2" 3/8 and 1/4. The shaft bolts are large and one is reverse threaded, I believe it is the right most bolt, the main shaft. Might be wrong though, I tend to mix them up.

my rebuild kit did not include seals for the oil pump on the transmission btw, and I used the atc pro king rebuild kit. Part number: BK238WS
This kit is available from many sources so shop around, I got it from advanced auto for $166 with a discount code, it usually runs around $300.
It also didn't include my synchro springs so I had to keep my old ones. They looked ok but I would like to have used new ones. I could not find anywhere to buy them though. However they are technically not needed for your trans to work... it's good to have them though.

Make sure when you put it all back together that the synchro springs don't slip off and get wedged between gears, that's very easy to do. So make sure you take a good look at each gear before you put that case back on. The case should close fully with a bit of wiggling. Any gap in the housing means something is wrong with your rebuild.

I'll add more if I think of any other advice.

I don't know, bro. Seems like it'd be a lot easier to have it on a table if you planned to do a proper rebuild. That's a lot of work to do hunched over a fender. Just my two cents.

Glad you got yours working though.

It's actually not that much, I finished in like 30 minutes. (the rebuild that is) Taking this specific trans apart is pretty damn simple. I love it.

However, if you do want to remove it it makes it take about 4 hours longer. For me I would rather hunch over for 30 minutes than work for an extra 4.

Not to nitpick, but it would be well to avoid confusion for future readers of this thread. To say that you're "rebuilding" the trans means that you're doing a comprehensive cleaning, inspection and refurbishment. It involves a total tear down, removing the shafts, the diff, the shifter mechanism, all shift forks, and then disassembling those components as well. All parts get thoroughly cleaned in a parts washer (including the case halves) and blown dry. Then they get a visual inspection for heat, excessive wear, cracking, etc. Then they get miked for tolerances, checked for runout, etc. Finally, all soft parts get replaced, all rubber seals, all orings, all syncros, all stake nuts and all bearings included in your rebuild kit. If you do it right, according to the manual, it takes a lot longer than 30 minutes and is a lot easier done with the trans on a table.

I think when you say "rebuild," you mean that you can remove the main case and reseal it while leaving most everything else largely undisturbed. Again, not nitpicking, just trying to avoid confusion.

Glad you got it fixed though.

I actually did exactly what you just listed. I said that in the post. I replaced "all seals, bearings, and sychro blocker rings"

I of course visually inspected all parts as I did that. And replacing the bearings requires me to remove both shafts in the transmission. I didin't leave anything undisturbed. I replaced basically every part that was replaceable.

I don't both checking tolerances or run-out because those parts are not replaceable and I would have nowhere to buy them anyway. Why bother checking clearance on a part you can't replace anyway?

For me it was easier to rebuild in the car, although I have taken this type of trans out and worked on it on a table before. (I have more than one 87) It was easier to work on while it was in the car. Since I've done both I enjoyed rebuilding it while it was in the car much more and it took me 30 minutes to rebuild since I knew what I was doing.

There was no point in me cleaning the outer case, that's a preference, not a necessity. I did clean all the parts with fresh oil and a lint free rag as well.

Are you saving any removal steps? You still have to pull the axles, which requires suspension disassembly, and all the mess of hoses, wires and cables on top. Leaving aside the novelty of it, are there any compelling advantages? Did you have any trouble getting the shafts to mesh when you put them back? Did anything fall off? One real advantage would be that you don't have to align the input shaft into the clutch disk so carefully to get it to seat. I had to buy a special jack for that because if it was off by even a micron, it wouldn't go. I spent a day fighting with it before buying the jack. It was a good purchase because I got to do the job 5 more times before it finally took.

Advantages:

I didn't have to mess with any of the hoses or cables at all. I didn't have to remove the rear motor mount bolts or the upper trans mount. I didn't have to remove the transmission bolts or physically drop or lift the trans. No issues meshing, Nothing falls out, it's all very securely in there. I did use shaft lube though so maybe it made it easy to install in the clutch. I didn't have to touch the starter at all and I didn't have to remove the clutch cable. I also didn't have to remove the clutch cover or the center tow bar.

Basically this allows you to skip a ton of steps and you can easily do the job without any lifts or having to lie on your back for a while. Faster and the way I would do it if I ever have to rebuild one of these transmissions again.

I found that if you remove the rear mount bolts it was difficult to align the trans easily and you had to jack it up multiples times to get those 3 bolts down there to line up properly, and that takes forever. If you're using a shop lift you would spend nearly half the time just moving the car up and down on it to get to the lower bolts and upper since they have to be removed and installed in a specific order. It was faster to just lie on the ground instead of lifting the car.

That's why I just found a way to rebuild with it still installed. Easier to do, faster and one person can do it easily. It's not easy for one person to lift this trans into a car an mount it. I certainly did it once but did not enjoy it.

I'm really surprised to hear you had so much trouble with the input shaft. You had to do it 5 times? What?!

cons:
It is slightly difficult to reach the pump bolt doing it this way, 9/10 you don't have to touch the pump anyway though, but it's certainly still possible. But replacing the pump hoses was annoying as fuck anyway (for me)

No. I only spent a couple hours fighting with the input shaft. Then I bought the jack. Shaft lube probably would have helped, but whatever. That transmission promptly exploded within 300 miles. One of the shafts was bent and grenaded a couple gears. That's why I mention checking runout, though it wouldn't really have saved me much heartache if I had. Like you say, hard parts are not available. Anyway, I went through 4 more wrecker trannies looking for something worth rebuilding. They were all toast, burned up, broken and otherwise. I had to give up after exhausting the supply of wreckers trannies for a 3 state area. I finally bought a reman online that works well. I got pretty good at tearing them down and putting them back together before it was all over.

So you didn't remove any of the mess that sits on top of the trans? You fought with that garbage the whole time? That had to suck. How'd you get the input shaft seal replaced? What about the diff seals and bearings? What about cleaning up the case around the pump area? What about the shift shaft seal?

Dude. How do you bend the input shaft? Maybe you bent it using a jack to install it? It really shouldn't... what? I still don't understand why you could not install the input shaft... but ok. It sounds like you had quite a time. I would have bought a reman on ebay wayy sooner than you did.

I didn't have to fight with the stuff on top of the trans much if at all, it is largely out of the way if you don't drop the transmission because all those wires and hoses are above the second layer of the transmission. I actually didn't bother replacing the differential bearings, those appeared to be pressed on to me and were in great shape. I have a second diff if they ever fail and I also have two new bearings (unused). I doubt those bearings will be an issue though since they were always immersed in oil. none of the bearings in the trans actually looked worn or anything. I kept the ones I replaced for later if the new ones failed XD. I've had new parts fail sooner than the old before and had to swap for a 30 year old part when the new 2 year old part goes bad. Keep all the working parts now.

Cleaning up the top of the case where the pump is pointless, I did replace both of the hoses on it though and that was NOT enjoyable. I just kinda reached and felt around a bunch until I got them pulled off and put new ones on. Not much really to say there. It's annoying, go by feel. Follow the rubber lines, they don't go that far. There was some crud around the oil pump from it leaking for a while so I used a few lint free rags to wipe the area down and clean it up. Then replaced the o-rings and sadly I did not have an internal o-ring small enough for it and just put gasket maker on it. Which seems to have worked. As in I covered the old o-ring in gasket maker. The shift shaft seal was pretty easy to replace, got a flat head hammered on the old gasket side a bit to pull it out. Pushed the new one in and used an extension+socket to tap it in. I used a u-joint to remove the bolt on it. Oh and the shift shaft has a little spring ball under it. Don't lose it. My kit did not come with a shift shaft boot though... So I don't have a boot and that worries me. I am thinking of making one. I removed the input shaft and swapped the seal, I don't understand what you mean by how. It basically just sits under the shaft which is only held in by like 3 little bolts and a cover.

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Originally Posted by slithica

Dude. How do you bend the input shaft? Maybe you bent it using a jack to install it? It really shouldn't... what? I still don't understand why you could not install the input shaft... but ok. It sounds like you had quite a time.

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I didn't bend the shaft, it came that way. It came from a wrecking yard when I swapped over to MT. Who knows what the PO did to get it that way. Magical things abound in junkyards. I simply rebuilt it and discovered the problem the expensive way, which is why checking runout is important. It might save you from spending a lot of time and money only to hear a terrible grinding noise that tells you you're screwed when it's all done. Trust me, you don't want to hear that sound.

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I would have bought a reman on ebay wayy sooner than you did.

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When you open up 4 different transmissions, basically all the transmissions in the state, and find them to be total scrap, you're telling me you would then start buying them from eBay and adding non-refundable shipping charges on to all your headache? Those builders are pulling from the same pool of old, broken transmissions that I am. They aren't machining new hard parts, so they don't have any advantages over me. They're simply picking through piles of broken metal, hoping to find something they can piece back together for a few bucks. Granted, they might have bigger piles to pick through, but I've returned enough lifetime-warranty "rebuilt" alternators to know what kind of crap is put in those boxes by companies with a lot more to lose than some incognito joe on eBay. My standards are a LOT higher, as is my workmanship. I only took a chance on mantrans.com because they were so highly rated by members here and because my back was against the wall. Either I took the chance, or abandoned the project. It worked out, thankfully. I couldn't have done the job they did, and that means something coming from me.

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I actually didn't bother replacing the differential bearings,

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Which brings us back to the point I was making initially. If you opt for this method, you're not going to complete certain parts of the overhaul. That might be just fine for some people, but for posterity's sake, we should make that clear. You won't be pressing out at least one diff bearing this way, likely a diff seal too (though you can do that from underneath), and you'll probably be skipping some important cleaning and inspection, unless you're really committed, and willing to fight with a bunch of hoses. You should also take care not to lose the detent ball for the shift shaft.

And you're not going to give any attention to the clutch, obviously, which strikes me as silly. If you're going to all the trouble of rebuilding the trans, why wouldn't you do the clutch, replace the rear main seal, resurface the flywheel and check the ring gear while you're at it? I can't think of any good reason not to. Yeah, you can skip it and it might work out, but you'll be kicking yourself if the clutch starts slipping or the ring gear starts zinging in the next 30k miles. 'Cause then you'll get to do it all over again the right way. It's like doing a timing belt service and not replacing the engine seals, tensioner and water pump. It's so much work to go back in again that saving a few extra minutes makes no sense.

Don't get me wrong, it's great to know that you can pop that main case off in place, and I'm sure it's going to work well for your purposes. Let's just be clear about the potential drawbacks.

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My kit did not come with a shift shaft boot though...

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Neither did my rebuilt unit. :( That bummed me out.

Well I didn't say there were no drawbacks, Although a clutch can last more than 100,000 miles and it's fairly reasonable to assume you can have a good clutch and need to rebuild your transmission. So this is a simple way to do that. Also, you don't normally have to resurface a flywheel... I've never had to. Hell, I would buy a new one for $30 before I resurfaced it. A good reason not to do all that is that it's extra work and those parts are fine. Why fix what isn't broken? With that thought process you would be recommended people to replace their brake pads when they change their tires. Because it's right there! Or a more realistic example is to do a head gasket job whenever you change the valve gasket. Because it would take me less time to do a head gasket job than to drop the trans on this car.

Relax, if it works then I don't need to replace it.

It also would not be doing it again, this method I described barely touches any of the parts needed to remove the actual transmission. Takes less than half the time.

Oh, btw. You can actually inspect your ring gear without removing anything. This engine/trans has an inspection hole to look at. It was meant to be used to time the engine but whatever. You can see the ring gear through it.

You still drive your 80s accord?

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Originally Posted by slithica

With that thought process you would be recommended people to replace their brake pads when they change their tires. Because it's right there! Or a more realistic example is to do a head gasket job whenever you change the valve gasket. Because it would take me less time to do a head gasket job than to drop the trans on this car.

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Easy there, tiger. You've discovered something very cool. I'm just trying to foster a more complete discussion about benefits and risks. If you're happy with it, don't let me upset you. There are guys who don't change the tensioner, seals or water pump when they change a timing belt. That's okay. I'm still allowed to point out the risks of that approach. That's all.

To answer your question, I haven't touched the car in 4 years. It doesn't have 4WD and can't pull a tool trailer or haul a load of lumber, so it just sits. I might start commuting again, so I'll have to get it running at that point. The braking system needs to be redone: new prop valve, new hard lines, the works. And it's sprung a fuel leak from the sitting.

I hauled a small trailer with mine for like 3,500 miles at one point and have towed up to 1500lbs with it before. I have a 1 ton tow hitch.

So it can haul stuff!

LOL. Rock on!

Dr_Snooz... clap*
Great posts, good points vs. taking it out of car

Slithica... I've never really got into a manual trans, so could you get to the shift boot? It's the only problem besides normal leaks I have had so far. Is the problem you had here replacing 5th gear?

To replace/remove the shift boot or its seal you have to open the trans and remove the shift assembly inside the transmission. Then it has a single bolt that holds it in. You are then able to slide it out and replace/remove the seal or boot.

Yes you can remove/replace the shift boot with the trans still in the car.

I rebuilt mine because it was leaking oil, about 1/2 a quart or so per 1k miles. I needed to replace my clutch as well so I just rebuilt it.

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Originally Posted by slithica

Yes you can remove/replace the shift boot with the trans still in the car.

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LOL. You mean to say you can replace it with a small portion of the trans left in the car with everything else removed with great effort.

It's easier to replace the shift boot with the trans in the car, but you do whatever you want.

On what planet does lying on your back with oil dripping on you while you replace a seal qualify as "easier" than doing the same on a table? But seriously, if easy is what you're after, then ignore the problem, crack open a beer and watch TV. If, however, you acknowledge that some amount of work has to be done, then "easy" has quite a lot more to do with NOT having to do the work again, then in ignoring a lot of important steps and pretending you did an adequate job. If you want to believe that doing partial rebuilds, leaving a bunch of important work undone and having a high likelihood of redoing your sloppy work later is "easier," then do it your way. If, however, you don't want to do the work twice, do it Honda's way.

I'm not here to argue with you. Short of having a rebuild competition between the two methods it's nearly impossible to prove which is better and honestly I have better things to do than try to convince an internet person they're wrong.

Ill jump in and say I have done two clutch jobs on my car and both times I had a bear of a time getting the trans lined back up on the splines with out some effort. I made studs and everything. I made a mount on a floor jack to hold the trans level and I still eneded up getting someone to help me. The rear mounts are more a pain in the ass then help full. This last job I really had to pull it in a little with the bolts which I dont like to do. Im hoping this is my last.

Why so many clutches?

This post was very insightful. We're starting work on the head today. While my buddy is tearing it down I'll pop off the tranny case and check the condition of my trans and clutch.