Help with 87, A20A2 going through fuel??

I am having a problem with my 87 accord, and after searching this great thread for the past 3 days and trying various things, I am still unable to correct it.

O.K.....here's the deal....87 Accord LX, Auto, A20A2 Motor, 132000kms, 1 owner, awsome shape, runs beautifull, idles nicely, warms up fine except.........eats gas..18 mpg! Yikes! This is what I have done: Plugs, Plug Wires, Cap, Rotor, 2 Fuel Filters, Air filter, PCV Valve, new Thermo and A/F, Stock timmimg, Tire Pressure @ 30 PSI, checked coil (how to on this thread).

After doing all of this I still get 16 -17 MPG. Then I increased the timing and it actual made the MPG a little better by a mile or 2 but nothing to write home about. I also noticed a big difference in power between the stock 15 degrees of timimg and the 17 or 18 I had it at. Much more snap with the advanced timmimg and as I said, the fuel economy was a little better?? Not sure what to try next?? I read that the O2 sensor would not make a difference with the carbed engine? What about the air/fuel mixture? Doesn't seem to run rich as the plugs are a light, tan colour and no noticeable smoke. Doesn't burn a drop of oil either. What about the air jet controller or the EGR valve? I also talked to a Honda mechanic that I know of and he just rebuilt the engine on his own 87 carb accord, the same as mine and he is also getting crummy milage. He said I did all the right things and wasn't sure what to try next?

Whatever help, suggestions or advice I could get would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance and Merry Christmas to all.

Brent

well i'm pretty sure the oxygen sensor does make a difference even on the carbed engine. i know that mine needs replacement. i would think to look at your vacuum lines. i know that i replaced one of mine a while back. it had a hole in it. after i had fixed that it ran a little better and got better gas mileage. i've also replaced all my ignition: coil, cap, rotor, wires, and plugs. i get an average of 22-23 MPG. this is even with zippy driving. i drive in the city, so its stop and go driving. i'll fill my fuel tank up and i can drive it for about 280-290 miles before i need to fill up again. my RPMs dont usually go above 4000 rpm. hopefully that will help you, i dont know if it will. anyway, welcome to 3geez.com, we help each other all the time. that's probley the reason i've had luck with a lot of things with my car getting fixed.

Check your PM... you haven't moved from high to low or low to high altitude have you?

I live up on the hill, but I can't see how that would make too much of a difference? I think that I am noticing a mild bit of "missing" between 2500rpm and 3200rpm and maybe a slight lack of power in this area aswell. Not a big miss or dye or anything like that but when I start out from a light in D4, as my RPM's reach around 2500, it seems like it might be sputtering a little and then gets better after around 3200. I'm not totally sure on this but it just doesn't feel right around this RPM area.

Don't know about the O2 sensor, hate to spend $75.00 on something I don't need?

How do I check the EGR Valve? I read in the manual that if I can push it in fairly easily, then it is O.K., but if it is hard, then I need to replace it. I see in the picture in the manual where it is but I cannot find any place where I am supposed to push it in? Can someone help me or post a picture of where to check this EGR Valve?

Thanks,

Brent

why dont you need the O2 sensor? its there for a purpose man, otherwise the car will run like ass. but i dont think thats your problem at all. i had this sort of problem you described above. it was due to a busted vacuum line. had the same problem of a bit of missing and bad gas mileage. since i've replaced the hose, no such problems. check the vacuum hoses.

you'll need to remove the EGR to push on the valve... there are two 12mm nuts securing the EGR valve to the manifold.

You don't need the O2 to run the car but it helps. especially when you have all the other stock equiptment intact. If you modified the carb and removed the vacuum lines then there would be no point to the O2 Sensor.

It's all stock right now and would just like to get the milage better the way it is. Then once it gets better, then maybe play with some upgrades or mods. Already thinking on that Civic air cleaner mod with the K+N on the end.

I will remove the EGR valve and check it out. I could probably start to replace all of the vacuum lines.....just buy 10 feet or so and fly at it I suppose? I don't see or hear any major leaks though......oh well.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions so far guys....keep em comin if you like?

Brent

What is the best way to test vacuum lines? I was thinking about using my air compressor cranked down to about 5 or 10 psi and then disconnecting one end of a line and checking it that way. What do you think?

the way i found my messed up lines was just to listen to them with the car on and see where a hissing sound was comming from. on mine i was quite noticeable because one line had a fairly large hole in it. also, i found one by feeling the line for a hole. i'm sure there's other good ways to find a broken line. i may replace the lines if i redo my carb. there's tons of lines on the carbs with emissions stuff.

no compressed air... you may creare more vacuum leaks then you fix. rn the car and spray carb cleaner in small direct spurts on the individual vacuum line connections and around the base of the carb, at the rear of the manifold, around the PCV valve and between the head and manifold. The RPM's should change if the vacuum leak has sucked up any carb cleaner... careful not to spray into the carb or it will also cause the RPM's to change and give you a false result.

Thanks guys...will give it a shot A20A1.

Take care and Merry Ho Ho to you all!

Brent

Some of more serious probs => bad MPG :
- excessive slip in auto-tranny
- excessive drag due to stuck brake caliper/drum