This Can't Be Good!!!!

Last night we were going to the store in the '86 lxi h/b, i went out to start it and let it warm up, no surging ( thanx for the help figuring that out) or anything weird. I let it run 10 minutes before we left. It ran fine until left the stoplight about 2 miles down the road. It accelerated fine up to 40 mph, then the PGM light popped on and it felt like i turned the ignition off. I gave it more throttle and the more i gave it the slower it went. I looked in the mirror( this is a 4 lane major road with 55 mph spped limit) and there was a large cloud of blackish grey smoke behind me, and a kenworth eating my ass.
I threa the car in nuetral and floored it. The engine sputtered and spit, the revved out, and the PGM light went out. A quick sweep of the guages revealed nothing, so i slammed it back in 3 and floored it again. Perfect, no problem until i got to the next stoplight, it idled very low, and loped, sounded awesome, but not right. NO pgm LIGHT. When we got to the stor i checked the codes and got a code 6, this is a CTS code, correct? can a CTS cuase that much problem, or is it part of something larger? The car is running ok now but something ain't right here. I'm trying to catch a small problem before it gets major, if not already.. Thanks for any suggestions

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Originally Posted by accord newbie

Last night we were going to the store in the '86 lxi h/b, i went out to start it and let it warm up, no surging ( thanx for the help figuring that out) or anything weird. I let it run 10 minutes before we left. It ran fine until left the stoplight about 2 miles down the road. It accelerated fine up to 40 mph, then the PGM light popped on and it felt like i turned the ignition off. I gave it more throttle and the more i gave it the slower it went. I looked in the mirror( this is a 4 lane major road with 55 mph spped limit) and there was a large cloud of blackish grey smoke behind me, and a kenworth eating my ass.
I threa the car in nuetral and floored it. The engine sputtered and spit, the revved out, and the PGM light went out. A quick sweep of the guages revealed nothing, so i slammed it back in 3 and floored it again. Perfect, no problem until i got to the next stoplight, it idled very low, and loped, sounded awesome, but not right. NO pgm LIGHT. When we got to the stor i checked the codes and got a code 6, this is a CTS code, correct? can a CTS cuase that much problem, or is it part of something larger? The car is running ok now but something ain't right here. I'm trying to catch a small problem before it gets major, if not already.. Thanks for any suggestions

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6 is TW coolant temperature sensor. resistance should be 200-400 ohms on the sensor. Yellow/Green should be 5 Volts. Not sure if it would make you car run that bad for a second and then run ok the rest of the time. Sure could I guess make it run rich.

Dont say where you are but I run dry gas in the winter esp. up north keep water build up outta your fuel. Thats one easy thing you can do.

wp

Well i went out to start the car today, and i had i hard time getting it started.
I cranked it, nothing, again i cranked it , nothing, once more and it tried to start, acted like it was flooded. So i pressed the gas to the floor, cranked it and it sputtered to life. I was greeted with another blachish gray cloud out of the tailpipe. No PGM light though, and the code 6 has not returned. Fuuny thing though is my fuel mileage has gone up approx 2 miles per gallon. Doesn't make sense to me. I'm leaning toward an injector problem, so here is a question. I looked on the fail rail and did not see a scheader valve, so i guess i check for leakdown at the test port on the fuel filter correct? This is not the first time this starting problem has occured, so something is up. WITH 225,000 on the "clock", it's about time things start happening LOL

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Originally Posted by accord newbie

Well i went out to start the car today, and i had i hard time getting it started.
I cranked it, nothing, again i cranked it , nothing, once more and it tried to start, acted like it was flooded. So i pressed the gas to the floor, cranked it and it sputtered to life. I was greeted with another blachish gray cloud out of the tailpipe. No PGM light though, and the code 6 has not returned. Fuuny thing though is my fuel mileage has gone up approx 2 miles per gallon. Doesn't make sense to me. I'm leaning toward an injector problem, so here is a question. I looked on the fail rail and did not see a scheader valve, so i guess i check for leakdown at the test port on the fuel filter correct? This is not the first time this starting problem has occured, so something is up. WITH 225,000 on the "clock", it's about time things start happening LOL

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Not sure on the leak down. Might so a pressure loss but how to know where its happening is the problem.

Have you looked at your plugs at all?




wp

Sure did, and they look fine, they have a little carbon ring all but one, the number 3 cyl has a slightly heavier deposit on it, but not extreme. Kinda puzzling, there should be some evidence of excess fuel but there isnt. The smoke is not blue, its is a dark gray, and i can smell how rich it gets when it does this. But it does not show on the plugs. I have never heard of a intermittent O2 sensor malfunction, but i guess it can happen. That would be the only thing i can think of that would cause the engine to go from normal to full rich and back again, but the ECM would see thisw and trip the PGM light. The only other thing i can thiunk of is a faulty injector. Right now it is running fine, but 10 minutes from now, who knows. I'm starting to lose myt patience with this car. :pc: . But for the 200 bucks i paid for it i can't complain. LOL

By George, I think i found it. i shut the car off and let it set for 30 minutes
, came back out and loosened the test port on the fuel filter, and bingo, just a trickle of fuel. Nowhere near system pressure. I lokked around the intake, near the injector bosses, and found a small pool of fuel. So either i got injector seals leaking or a crack in the boss. Im betting on the seals leaking.
Maybe the code 6 was just a coincidence. I'll let you all know how this turns out, i'll be putting seals in it tommorrow. Anything i should be aware of when replacing these seals? I have changed injector seals on GM TPI engines, but this is the first honda i have done. Still cant figure out whythe plugs look so good, unless these cars have one hell of an ignition system on them. Anyhow thanx again for the info. BTW i'm going to chunk a new O2 sensor in it for good measure :thumbup:


TO QUOTE A CHARACTER FROM "THE JOHN BOY AND BILLY SHOW":
This is Ike, peeeaaace out!!!!!

well, i think you should get yourself a pressure test gauge and test the pressure in the cylinders. you may have some problems with piston rings but it is hard to tell.

another thing, you should replace or check according to shop manual that temperature sensor. without that sensor engine will run in loop/safe mode and it can cause in running rich mixture and so on and on.

check the coolant for any oil. plus make sure it is up the level.

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Originally Posted by accord newbie

By George, I think i found it. i shut the car off and let it set for 30 minutes
, came back out and loosened the test port on the fuel filter, and bingo, just a trickle of fuel. Nowhere near system pressure. I lokked around the intake, near the injector bosses, and found a small pool of fuel. So either i got injector seals leaking or a crack in the boss. Im betting on the seals leaking.
Maybe the code 6 was just a coincidence. I'll let you all know how this turns out, i'll be putting seals in it tommorrow. Anything i should be aware of when replacing these seals? I have changed injector seals on GM TPI engines, but this is the first honda i have done. Still cant figure out whythe plugs look so good, unless these cars have one hell of an ignition system on them. Anyhow thanx again for the info. BTW i'm going to chunk a new O2 sensor in it for good measure :thumbup:


TO QUOTE A CHARACTER FROM "THE JOHN BOY AND BILLY SHOW":
This is Ike, peeeaaace out!!!!!

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Pay attention to the torque on the nuts when you torque down the rail its hard to get it to set right without leaking. I'm thinking about a new set of injectors myself my #3 leak once in a while. I got a fire extingisher in the car JIC but I have seen a bunch of our cars with motor fires and Im sure this is why. The seals are pretty pricy. The body of the injector might be leaking also.

wp

All right, i'm missing something here!!! I spent 2 hours on the freezing cold replacing the injector seals, O2, and just for good measure, the cap rotor and plugs. The car fired up and ran perfect. Took it for a test drive, performed flawlessly( as good as can be expected for over 200,000 miles). Brouht it home and let it set for 45 minutes to cool down. I cracked the test port and got a strong spray of fuel, now the system is holding pressure. Problem solved right, WRONG!!!! We took it around town, again flawless. We stopped at a convience store to get some sodas and chips, came back out and, it flat out refused to start :pc: . When i finally got it to start, there was a plume of black smoke again. I noticed this also, usually when i crank the car the tach will bump up off the peg, when this problem occurs the tach needle does not move. I have heard about problems with the distributors in these cars. This problem only happens when the car is hot, and it is intermittent, though it is becoming more frequent. My big question is, when this occurs, is there a "roadside" test i can do to figure out what is happening. Sometimes it will crank 30 seconds before starting, sometimes much longer. The black cloud is telling me either no spark weak spark, or way to much fuel. But the plugs i took out looked very good. I am still learning the specifics of these cars, so bear with me here. :stupid: thanx for any info

Oh yeah, the code 6 i got was from a loose connection, and has not returned

Did you check ur fuel rpoblem again? Your pump can be cutting in and out

Check your gas cap. My accord did the same thing, and I'm almost 95% sure it's a clogged gas cap. If it happens again, open your gas cap, then reseal it.

The pump is running the whole time, but the gas cap i have not tried yet. It should be ok, less then 3 months old, but i'll try anything right now

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Originally Posted by accord newbie

The pump is running the whole time, but the gas cap i have not tried yet. It should be ok, less then 3 months old, but i'll try anything right now

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Yeah cap needs to be vented


Helms p. 12-28


Crank angle sensor 4 pin conector measure the resistance between the wht/blu and orn/blu should have 650-850 ohms. wht/blu orn/blu shoud NOT have continutity body to ground.

Himm says the TDC sensor also controls Tach. You on the right track.

wp