rebuild motor questions

Printable View

02-11-2005, 04:54 PM
Immeraufdemhund

rebuild motor questions

I want to rebuild a f22a4 (not asking questions about the particulars of the motors) I want to do it right cause it has 300k miles on it. I'm getting a complete engine gasket set. And someone mentions rings and bearings. I looked for bearing and got confussed if the main bearings and rod bearings were the same. I've never done a full rebuild, i was just going to put all new gaskets all around, h20 pump, timing belt.

I'm told the that the engine ran great when they turne it on, but it was just a test of to see if it would even start up. once it did they shut it off. I have never heard the engine my self, but i saw the timing belt and figure it was the original....oooh it was ugly. any thing else i should look at?
02-11-2005, 05:08 PM
Mac

The rod bearings and main bearings are not the same. The rod bearings are on the bottom of each connecting rod. The main bearings are on each end of the crankshaft and in between each connecting rod.
02-11-2005, 05:38 PM
BlueBead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac

The rod bearings and main bearings are not the same. The rod bearings are on the bottom of each connecting rod. The main bearings are on each end of the crankshaft and in between each connecting rod.

What he said.... you should replace both types of bearings at that mileage. Also do your rings and have the head machined and a valve job done while its all apart. at the end of a rebuild you should feel confident that it'll get another 300k. If you aren't that confident then you went too cheap.
Just remember that you want to have it apart only once..... its way cheaper that way.
*You should get a honda engine rebuild book.... it sounds like you need it. there are aftermarket ones out there at most decent parts stores, and it could just focus on imports.... but it would give you a better idea of what you want to do for a good rebuild.
G'luck buddy
02-11-2005, 10:05 PM
AccordEpicenter

you dont have to replace the bearings, just plastiguage them, if theyre within spec and look good (not scuffed etc), use them. You should measure the bores, if they are within service limit, run a glaze breaker hone and get new pistons/piston rings. At this milage id pay some attention to the valves and valve seats, it might need a valve grind and maybe new valves. If the bores are bigger than the service limit, youll have to get oversize pistons and rings. Also dont forget stuff like seals and thrust washers etc. Only use honda seals and gaskets for critical components (oil pan gasket, head gasket, front and rear main seals, harmonic balancer shaft seals etc)
02-11-2005, 11:40 PM
88Accord-DX

I pretty much agree with last post. Go ahead and have the head rebuilt. When you put new pistons & rings in, check the ring end gap to specs. only after you bored or honed the cylinders out.
Run a straight edge on the crankshaft jounals & check with feeler gauge to specs to see if it needs line bored.(only is block got hot) Check the crankshaft end play too.
Get you a new oil pump, water pump & timing belt w/ idler tensioner.
Some of these measurements you need to take require outside micrometer, dial indicator, inside micrometer, etc. Last but not least, have the engine balanced if you want to do it right. Good luck & let us know how it comes out.
*edit* I forgot, you need to check your camshaft & journals to specs too. Might need new bearings there too.
02-27-2005, 12:58 PM
Immeraufdemhund

wow thanx for all the tips. I got in all new bearings and rings. They said clean up the pistons and all the little little oil holes. How can i safely clean up the pistons really shiney good. They dotn have that much carbon on them, and the sides only had a very small amount too. It scratched off easy with my finger nails and then cleaned up fairly good with just a paper towel. I want to use carb cleaner and things to clean it, is that okay?

I also am going to bring the head and block to get "purdafied" (yes that's southern) and i'm going to want to rattle can the block to make it super shiney. any so far the thing is going really good.

I got my aluminum flywheel in, and stage one clutch in (yeah for ebay)....so far i just need it to warm up out side so i can work more on it.

again thanks for the info. any other tips would be good.

Ert
02-27-2005, 04:37 PM
pendejo

The only tip I can give is to DOUBLE CHECK EVERYTHING! I learned the hard way not to rush a rebuild. A small $0.50 part caused nearly $500 of damage to my four wheeler motor on my first rebuild! Use a torque wrench also. I've seen several "ASE Certified" mechanics just start torquing down a bolt into an aluminum block without one and that is a no no(although I don't know if the F series is an aluminum block, but still...)
02-27-2005, 05:14 PM
Immeraufdemhund

yah..it's all aluminum... Goodness it's kinda a nice relief picking up the f22a4 compared to my a20a3. Good lord i about broke all my bones and muscles picking up the cast block.

i got an ok torque wrench. I gotta get some carb cleaner so i can clean up the block and head real good. I just got done cleaning up the pistons and put on the rings. Whew those old ones snaped and broke when i was taking them out. And the bearings..I should get some pics of those things. UGLY! so well time to freeze my self to bring the block and head downstairs.

PEACE and thanx for the tips.
02-27-2005, 06:41 PM
SteveDX89

Search for Honda rebuild kits on the Internet. Then order all those parts from Honda. You should find it has the full gasket kit, pistons, rings, main and rod bearings. You want to get all those parts on a rebuild. I wouldn't suggest reusing the pistons even if you clean them up.
03-01-2005, 12:23 AM
88Accord-DX

more tips

nm
03-05-2005, 02:20 AM
88Accord-DX

link to decent re-build kit

This re-build kit is listed as Honda... Best offer I see on the net. I'm getting one after the summer & re-buiding my motor stock. Just hitting 200 g's, still some life left in the engine beside little leak off the head gasket. :smokin:

http://www.rpmmachine.com/enginerebu...shondatop.html
03-05-2005, 05:22 AM
2drSE-i

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immeraufdemhund

I also am going to bring the head and block to get "purdafied" (yes that's southern) and i'm going to want to rattle can the block to make it super shiney. any so far the thing is going really good.

whats wrong with southern

:kekeke:

sounds like you know pretty much what your doing, so good luck to you!
03-19-2005, 07:22 PM
Immeraufdemhund

thanx man for the luck. It worked. I got the car fired up today and drove it around for about 20 min. I was driving by the LIKOR store and all of a sudden the tach goes to zero. I got the car back at the shop (my garage) I figured it was spark cause that is what it sounded like. We check for spark and found a bad ground. fixed the ground. Checked for spark again and still nothing. So i take off my cap and check the coil, I have power going to the coil, but it's apparently not umm...jumping it's juice to the wires. Any idears?
03-20-2005, 12:20 AM
Oldblueaccord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immeraufdemhund

thanx man for the luck. It worked. I got the car fired up today and drove it around for about 20 min. I was driving by the LIKOR store and all of a sudden the tach goes to zero. I got the car back at the shop (my garage) I figured it was spark cause that is what it sounded like. We check for spark and found a bad ground. fixed the ground. Checked for spark again and still nothing. So i take off my cap and check the coil, I have power going to the coil, but it's apparently not umm...jumping it's juice to the wires. Any idears?

Is that the internal distributor? Probably the ignitor just to hazzard a guess and the bad ground zapped it.

wp
03-20-2005, 12:33 AM
88Accord-DX

Replace the coil.
*edit* Then look to the distributor for more problems.
Mulitmeter check it off the coil 1st to see if the coil is bad.
03-20-2005, 06:42 AM
Immeraufdemhund

ok last night we checked the coil with the test from the haynes manuel, it checked good. Then we were trying to figure out what the heck the stupid book was talking about to check the Ignitor.

Quote:

Check for continuity between the yellow/green wire and the ECU. Check for continuity between the blue wire from the tachometer terminal and the igniter. There should be between 1.1K to 3.3K ohms.

now I had a electrician that works in the mines fixing the huge mining equipent and has 15 years experiance and he didn't understand what they meant by the wire and the ECU....and quite frankly I DONT EITHER. I understand what to check for, i just dont know were to put my two probes.

oh yah i do have an internal coil. I hate that design. i think i'm going to get an external coil distributor and put my super stock coil on.

My buddy said he tried something for that ignitor test and it had an open loop, (the one that is supposed to have 1.1k to 3.3k) but i dont think we were touching it right.

thanx again for the help.
03-20-2005, 12:36 PM
88Accord-DX

This is similar test on the prelude for the ignitor. I can't upload a pic on computer cause I'm not a foundation memeber.

1. Remove the distributor cap, the distributor rotor, and the inner cover.

2. Disconnect the BLACK/YELLOW, GREEN, YELLOW/GREEN, and BLUE wires from the ICM.
3. Turn the ignition switch ON. Check for voltage between the BLACK/YELLOW wire and chassis ground. There should be battery voltage.
If there is no battery voltage, check the BLACK/YELLOW wire between the Ignition Coil and the ICM.
If there is battery voltage, go to step 4.
4. Turn the ignition switch ON. Check for voltage between the GREEN wire and chassis ground. There should be battery voltage.
If there is no battery voltage, check the:
Ignition coil.
GREEN wire between the ignition coil and the ICM.
If there is battery voltage, go to step 5.
5. Check the YELLOW/GREEN wire between the PGM-IG ECM and the ICM.
6. Check the BLUE wire between the tachometer and the ICM.
7. If all tests are normal, replace the ICM.
03-20-2005, 06:09 PM
Immeraufdemhund

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddude2uc

This is similar test on the prelude for the ignitor. I can't upload a pic on computer cause I'm not a foundation memeber.

1. Remove the distributor cap, the distributor rotor, and the inner cover.

2. Disconnect the BLACK/YELLOW, GREEN, YELLOW/GREEN, and BLUE wires from the ICM.
3. Turn the ignition switch ON. Check for voltage between the BLACK/YELLOW wire and chassis ground. There should be battery voltage.
If there is no battery voltage, check the BLACK/YELLOW wire between the Ignition Coil and the ICM.
If there is battery voltage, go to step 4.
4. Turn the ignition switch ON. Check for voltage between the GREEN wire and chassis ground. There should be battery voltage.
If there is no battery voltage, check the:
Ignition coil.
GREEN wire between the ignition coil and the ICM.
If there is battery voltage, go to step 5.
5. Check the YELLOW/GREEN wire between the PGM-IG ECM and the ICM.
6. Check the BLUE wire between the tachometer and the ICM.
7. If all tests are normal, replace the ICM.

i replaced the whole dizzy today and still nothing. I did notice that my timing belt jumped a tooth, but i got that fixed now. Still no spark though. I'm thinking that my ecu is the culprit now. I'm going to get one from a junk car. By chance does anyone know if it's the same between the f22a4 and the f22a1? or if it matters between models? (4dr, 2dr, hatch???)

when they say check the wire between the PGM_IG ECM and the ICM is that meaning that i grab the wire all the way in the cabin on the ECU and the wire on the dizzY?
03-20-2005, 06:34 PM
88Accord-DX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Immeraufdemhund

when they say check the wire between the PGM_IG ECM and the ICM is that meaning that i grab the wire all the way in the cabin on the ECU and the wire on the dizzY?

Correct. The ICM is on the dizzy. Might have 3 prongs on it.
03-21-2005, 09:18 AM
Immeraufdemhund

well i got another ecu and that didn't do it. I'm rather more confident now that it is a wire some were cause last night i tried firing it up and it sparked once and then went back to normal no spark. Then after i put in the new ecu it did the same thing. So i'm thinking that somewere in the 100000000feet of wires there is something not right.

then the other day when my electrican friend was over he was playing with the fuse box under the hood and i dont know what he did but first my wiper blades jumped then turned on and would not turn off. They still wont turn off. I ended up just pulling the fuse for it. does that give any one any ideas?

ugh this car. :beat: :banghead:
03-21-2005, 03:04 PM
Immeraufdemhund

ok. i found out what was going on. FIRST ALWAYS GROUND YOUR ECU! SECOND ALWAYS Plug in your dizzy. THIRD ALWAYS Tighten your cam gear! the woodruff key fell out and turned the cam 90º and because of the jar it knocked my already bad ground loose and that either fried the ECU or the dizzy dont know which. replaced both re timed it, and now i have 8 miles on her... so make that 310009 miles. i just broke in the rings, now for the motor and the clutch. Thank you everyone for the much needed help!