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Theres no difference right. They have the same lenght and such. meaning if i wanted to get coilovers from a 90-93 accord would a 90-97 coilover kit be the same as a 90-93 coilover kit? Im pretty sure. Since 4g coilovers fit only the seleve type. Just wanted to make sure before i bought anything. Thanks and yes i search but only can find so much. What other coilvers are good Then GC?
Josh
you're talking about accords right? then yes, 90-97 will work, but you should be able to find decent springs/CO's for the model you're looking for. Ground controls are pretty harsh. You'll end up bouncing the fillings out of your head. If i were you, i'd go with a little bit more quality, like H&R, Nuespeed, or something like that. Sprint springs are pretty nice too IMO.
TEIN is the best full-bodied coilover.
its all a matter of personal preference. If you're looking for a full bodied coilover, go with Tein, or Omnipower. Both those are top quality. But they're also pretty spendy.
I tought u couldnt use 4 Gen accord full bodied coilovers. I mean the selve type u know
are you looking for coilovers for your 3g??
get cheap coilovers and cut the stoppers at the base of your strut (easy to do)... they'll be harder... WAY cooler. I'd spend $100 on Arospeed ones if I could go back.
I have Ground Control coilovers and Tokico struts. And I wish my ride was way stiffer even than it is (any cheap nameless $100 would be stiff as hell)... GC's are very expensive though. I wish they were stiffer. Thank goodness I could lower the car the full possible length to make it as stiff as it can be... I would be completely dissatisfied otherwise. I also reccomend a strut tower brace in the front. It'll greatly reduce the impact on our cheap unibodies.
wtf are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Versanick
Lowering a car doesn't make it stiffer. the spring rates are identical as the spring is still the same length.
as far full bodied coilovers. We have yet to figure out what kind of full bodied coilovers fit the front. Many of the full bodied coilovers come with pillowball mounts up top and I am curious on which of the accords top hats bolt up to our cars.
Compressing a spring vastly increases the spring's stiffness. That's on top of the fact that the car's low enough to be riding on strut when it hits hard bumps.
Definitely lower=stiffer. Not in terms of cutting a spring. The GCs use Eibach springs. They are SIGNIFICANTLY stiffer in ride from 0" lowered to 2" lowered, and that's not counting that as low as I am I hit strut all the time on hard bumps.
Lowering springs are a different story (a la cutting springs), as they're not compressed or wound tighter, they're simply often shorter.
that's what I'm talking about
It make since that the lower your car is the stiffer it is. IMO I'm by no means a suspension expert but, just think about it when you move the sleeve up your compressing the spring more and more hence the reason that your car would be lower. In uncompressed position the spring may be lets say 8" tall where as fully compressed it would be 3" tall. The only way to do that is to make the spring come closer and closer to each other. Which means that there is less room for the spring to flex and move up and down.
Correct me if I'm wrong but just using my common since made me make this conclusion.
So your telling me a full bodie coilover off a 4gen accord fit my car. Cuz Jim's86LXI HB said this "No they won't work. As I said earlier in this thread, 4th gen springs, struts and full bodied coilovers, like teins will not work. ONLY 4TH GEN SLEAVE TYPE COILOVERS WILL WORK". Thats why i keep asking this...............Or maybe im not understanding u correctly or something. I Just wanted to be sure before i bought some 90-93 coilovers. And i well ask again Is 90-93 4gen accord coilovers the same as a pair of 90-97 accord coilovers. I posted a theard about this before but didnt really understand really after everyone was telling me over and over again. lol but now i pretty much understand. but just wanted to make sure. sorry once again lol well u want to see what im talking about heres the thread https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=20186&page=2 :dunno:
gotcha. Forgot GC uses eibach springs. Eibach springs are actually progressive springs and they get stiffer as you compress them more. If you are riding low, you are always compressed given the sense of stiffer spring rates. In reality though, the spring rates are still the same, it just happens the spring is now always in the stiffer area. Hope that makes sense what I mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Versanick
linear springs give the same spring rate no matter what height. The progressives get stiffer as you compress them more. This is why when you went lower, it felt stiffer.
My mistake, there was a technicality. :uh:
and as far as you are concern, redon,
only the sleeves work. No full bodied coilover has work..yet.
Ok thanks busted_blue. I knew but just wanted to make sure or something u know. A u have Msn or anything like that.
Not all Eibach springs are progressive. The springs in the ground control coilovers are linear. Progressive springs are easy to recognize: the coil diamater, wire diameter, or coil spacing will not be constant throughout the spring.
Then I have progressive struts. Because it's definitely harder as I get lower. hahahahaha..
no, maybe it's not stiffer. It really feels it though. You'd agree if you rode in the car, I'm sure, however strange. It sure seems to me that compressing a spring increases its tensile nature. I suppose I didn't realize they were linear.
I think though, that whoever's selling the 90-97 coilovers should tell you more about them to differentiate them from 90-93 coilovers. I'm betting a lot of people have some questions.
edit: And I think a good combination of LX/SE-i is SE-x. There's nothing wrong with SE-x. hahaha
Well, isn't coil spacing different on stock springs. but is the progressive ones look like cones more or so?Quote:
Originally Posted by AZmike
I still don't get why if you go lower it will become stiffer if the spring rates are linear. Someone enlighten me since I am stumped.
Both of the spring geometries that you described are progressive. The different coil spacing produces two spring rates: one when all the coils are free to move and a second higher rate when all the close coils stack and there are fewer active coils in the spring. The conical spring is truely progressive: the rate slowly increases as fewer coils become active.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_Blue
Lowering a car further has no effect on the spring rate. A springs rate is purely a function of its wire diameter, coil diameter, number of active coils and material properties (nearly all steels have the same stiffness). Preloading the spring by compressing it using the coilover may make the ride feel stiffer since the length of the rebound stroke would be limited and the preload of the spring would have to be exceeded before the spring would begin to compress.
That's interesting mike.. thanks for the info! I figured lowering the car doesn't affect spring rate but i couldn't figure out why it would FEEL stiffer.
another few questions:
What exactly is preload? To my knowledge, I just know it as a way of preventing the spring from wobbling if the suspension is fully extended. I don't know too much more about preload... Where do you learn this stuff from anyways Mike? I'm inspired to learn some more about this stuff.
thanks, any help would be appreciated!
A spring that is preloaded is not allowed to reach it free length--something is constraining it. The preload value is the amount of force that it would take to compress the spring from its free length to whatever length it is limited to. For example, let's say you have a 150 lbf/in spring with a free length of 10 inches and you put it in a sleeve 8 inches long. To get the spring to fit you had to compress it 2 inches which corresponds to a preload of 300 lbf. Now if you were to apply a load to the top of the sleeve it wold not compress until you apply more that 300 pounds of force since the spring is already compressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_Blue
I picked most of my suspension knowledge when I was doing steering and suspension design on my university's formula SAE car, but my mechanical engineering classes, while not car-specific, also taught me a lot. If you're interested in learning more there are a few books I could recommend.
i am definitely interested. I'm always open to learning. I am fascinated by suspension and there is alot more for me to learn beyond the springs rates. I should probably take some classes just for a hobby to see where that takes me. Anyways what are the books you would recommend?Quote:
Originally Posted by AZmike
Carrol Smith's Tune To Win is a good place to start. It covers tire dynamics and suspension geometry and dynamics pretty well along with many other worthwhile topics.
Tein's full body coilovers are the best IMO. also you can get a Koni full body coilover which is adjustable in dampening like the tein. I did not read the full posts but the pillow ball with camber adjustment is for McPhearson struts alone. The regular pillow ball is good cause its metal and reduces the rubber "squishy" mount used in other set ups.
PS: One of this year's SPort Compact Car issue talked about these pillow ball mounts and coilovers.
