Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Wierd Problem... Honda Dealer Mechanic said he suspected water in air cleaner.
Went out to start is this morning and it acted like it was flooded BAD!!! Engine would turn over 2X then Slow way down (Almost Stop Turning) . I held the throttle to the floor and it finally started but was very very flooded. This only happens when it is snowing. So I Did some checking and if I removed the lid to the air cleaner it runs fine but as soon as I put the lid back on the problem returns. It acts like the disty is wet but it is bone dry. Nothing wet under the hood at all. Float level also looks good. I am baffled. This car runs great in the dry weather but add a little snow and it takes a major crap. But I can not find anything that is wet under the hood. Plus it works fine if the car is covered in frost but not with snow on it. And the problem does not go away when the car is warmed up either. HELP!!!
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Echt? Weird... It might be just enough colder when there is snow that it's making the ECT sensor freak out. It also sounds like your battery isn't working very well, because even if it's flooded, that shouldn't really changed the speed that it spins the engine.
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabuki
Echt? Weird... It might be just enough colder when there is snow that it's making the ECT sensor freak out. It also sounds like your battery isn't working very well, because even if it's flooded, that shouldn't really changed the speed that it spins the engine.
It is actually warmer now that is has been for the last 3 weeks. This is the first day it has been warm enough to snow... Battery Hmmmm!!! I will check that out also. Maybe a problem with the supply voltage and not getting enough juice to run the ETC properly and the humidity is enough to mess with it. Humidity is low when everything is frozen. But today things are finally thawing out.
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Do you have the correct coolant mixture?
Do you have a block heater to pre-heat the coolant?
Water, I dunno if thats your problem...
There isn't much access to the carb besides the air cleaner, you have the Air Jet Controller, the Charcoal Cannister which really would suck up water, any water from the intake duct to the fender has a long way to travel and it may end up blocked by the hot air door, but thats the only other areas I can think of right now.
Is your hot air door working?
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Quote:
Originally Posted by A20A1
Do you have the correct coolant mixture?
Do you have a block heater to pre-heat the coolant?
Water, I dunno if thats your problem...
There isn't much access to the carb besides the air cleaner, you have the Air Jet Controller, the Charcoal Cannister which really would suck up water, any water from the intake duct to the fender has a long way to travel and it may end up blocked by the hot air door, but thats the only other areas I can think of right now.
Is your hot air door working?
The hot air door is open I think. Is it located in the air cleaner???
I think that it is getting too much gas. It just smells like raw fuel under the hood. Also the Charging system checks out OK. Battery also checked out good.
I Dont have a block heater
The Coolant mix is 50-50. Just replaced along with bypass hoses and thermostat. Does not appear to be losing coolant either.
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Check to see if your EFE plate is working... also make sure the Exhaust heat Shield and fiberous hose are connected. The hose goes from the heat sheild to the air cleaner.
Does your hot air door close after the car warms up?
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilgorq
Wierd Problem... Honda Dealer Mechanic said he suspected water in air cleaner.
Went out to start is this morning and it acted like it was flooded BAD!!! Engine would turn over 2X then Slow way down (Almost Stop Turning) . I held the throttle to the floor and it finally started but was very very flooded. This only happens when it is snowing. So I Did some checking and if I removed the lid to the air cleaner it runs fine but as soon as I put the lid back on the problem returns. It acts like the disty is wet but it is bone dry. Nothing wet under the hood at all. Float level also looks good. I am baffled. This car runs great in the dry weather but add a little snow and it takes a major crap. But I can not find anything that is wet under the hood. Plus it works fine if the car is covered in frost but not with snow on it. And the problem does not go away when the car is warmed up either. HELP!!!
Have you checked your air filter? If it starts and runs w/Air cleaner cover off but not with it on, sounds like a restriction in the air intake, take the filter out and try again, if it starts, replace the filter, if not check for a squirrel nest or a rag or something in the intake hose....
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Quote:
Originally Posted by A20A1
Check to see if your EFE plate is working... also make sure the Exhaust heat Shield and fiberous hose are connected. The hose goes from the heat sheild to the air cleaner.
Does your hot air door close after the car warms up?
The Hot air door is bypassed ant the heater tube has been removed. Plus the Air filter is not in it. It just has the air filter housing with the door wedged open and it still does the same thing. And Only does it when it snows... And If I take the cover off of the housing it will run correctly.
Correct me if I am wrong but the purpose of the hot air door and the tube coming from the exhaust is to help it vaporize the fuel better when it is cold.
This problem does not go away when it has warmed up. So the hot air return system would not be suspect ??? But IF it were a situation where the problem went away once it warmed up it would be suspect. ???
What could change the fuel air mixture when it is snowing ??? This is not a cold issue it is very specific to high humidity. It has been very cold here and has been fine but now that it has been snowing the problem came back. As I am sure once it freezes tonight the problem will go away. Like it always does. If I Recall correctly it also did this when it rained last summer but not as bad. Possibly because evaporation rates were higher. I though it was a bad disty cap but that seems to make no difference.
My Wife just got home and hers died on the road flooded also... What the hell... STUPID CARS.
! Just talked to my wife and she has 4 Firends at work that have honda that are doing the same thing. One of them is a 1992 Civic. The others have 3g's
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
If you run without the air filter you'll get dirt in the valves that get air from the air cleaner. You'll also suck up oil.
What do you mean the door is wedged open?
You want the door to be closed when the car is warm or it will be like your car is sucking though a straw.
Your hot air door should only be open when cold... if it's open when warm you'll be restricting your air intake.
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
The connection between humidity/moisture really suggests an ignition/electrical problem.
You say the distributor is dry though eh... I'd move on to inspecting your plug wires, and coil.
The fact that the cranking slows down could be as simple as your battery being near the end of its useful life.
While your under there, check out your grounds.
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Quote:
Originally Posted by A20A1
If you run without the air filter you'll get dirt in the valves that get air from the air cleaner. You'll also suck up oil.
What do you mean the door is wedged open?
You want the door to be closed when the car is warm or it will be like your car is sucking though a straw.
Your hot air door should only be open when cold... if it's open when warm you'll be restricting your air intake.
I meant to run it without the air cleaner to trouble shoot the problem, not as a solution:uh:
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
No kilgorg said the air filter was not in the aircleaner... I was responding to kilgorg. I dunno if he was running it that way just for the test or if he has it that way constantly.
The way he posted made it sound as though he runs it that way constantly
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Quote:
Originally Posted by A20A1
No kilgorg said the air filter was not in the aircleaner... I was responding to kilgorg. I dunno if he was running it that way just for the test or if he has it that way constantly.
The way he posted made it sound as though he runs it that way constantly
The Door is open to the fresh air intake not the warm air intake. Sorry I didnt clarify that very well.
No I dont always run it that way. I was explaining my setup for testing it.
I Guess my point is that when it is snowing out the car reaks of raw fuel. And runs like shitaki-mushrooms. But an interm fix is to pull the top off of the air cleaner.
It is strong enough to give me a headache after driving it for 5 minutes. This problem is only present when humidity is high (Snowing) . This is not out of the tailpipe and the exhaust is not black. The smell is in the engine compartment. I Drove it 50 Miles tonight with no air cleaner and it started to sputter but cleared up after I shut off the car and then restarted it. And had no more problems.
I Agree humidity points to ignition system problems. About the only thing I haven't change is the Ignition Control Module (Expensive) and the coil.
Also keep in mind I have disabled the choke to eliminate that from the equation. I was concerned that it may be stuck on so it is now definately off.
??? If it is an ignition or electrical problem why would it work ok with the air cleaner lid off?
??? If there is water in the fuel will it make it run lean or rich? I am thinking lean. But I might be wrong.
Also I am asking myself why I have another 3G that is acting the same way but not as severly.
??? Catlytic Convert ??? Could it be acting wierd in wet weather ??? Not letting the exhaust leave the motor. Causing it to build up on fuel. (Probably Not) But maybe possible.
??? How Does the O2 Sensor work on the carbed 3g. I understand the Fuel Injected O2 but never have run across an O2 on a carbed car.
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
The O2 sensor on the carb is part of the feedback system that controls how much air is added to the intake post carb. I don't believe that your problem is with any of that though.
At idle the mixture screw on the carb essentially runs the show though.
When you remove the air cleaner lid, is the filter itself wet? I can't imagine a wet paper filter would flow too well. The intake goes into the fender ahead of the passenger front tire. Is your fender liner in one piece?
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC_Inside
The O2 sensor on the carb is part of the feedback system that controls how much air is added to the intake post carb. I don't believe that your problem is with any of that though.
At idle the mixture screw on the carb essentially runs the show though.
When you remove the air cleaner lid, is the filter itself wet? I can't imagine a wet paper filter would flow too well. The intake goes into the fender ahead of the passenger front tire. Is your fender liner in one piece?
Filter was dry and clean I Just replaced it a little over a month ago.
Yes the fender liner is in 1 Piece. I Removed the duct to that went to it for the purpose of troubleshooting also.
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
you only remove the top cover not the whole thing?water condensating and car dumps too much gas but runs ok once cover is removed....
runs ok in dry cold but not during wet cold or wet warm weather
water is affecting the system that contols the fuel
my only guess is that you have a bad sensor or a bad wire to same said sensor because it is grounding out when it is wet.
you stated it happens in the rain too so i believe a bad wire is grounding out when it gets damp check for cracked wires on whatever sensors you have my car only had the choke wire and that idle solenoid in the back it is sensing it needs more fuel so it reeks of it the only reason it runs better with lid off is it is getting more air.
try this flip your air cover lid and see if it runs as good with lid off,if not then something on top of carb is sucking water in when lid is tightened down sounds crazy and almost nonsensical but the problem is wierd.
how about the vapor recovery system could water affect that if is compromised?
Re: Hard Start and flooding only when it snows
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant Stop
you only remove the top cover not the whole thing?water condensating and car dumps too much gas but runs ok once cover is removed....
runs ok in dry cold but not during wet cold or wet warm weather
water is affecting the system that contols the fuel
my only guess is that you have a bad sensor or a bad wire to same said sensor because it is grounding out when it is wet.
you stated it happens in the rain too so i believe a bad wire is grounding out when it gets damp check for cracked wires on whatever sensors you have my car only had the choke wire and that idle solenoid in the back it is sensing it needs more fuel so it reeks of it the only reason it runs better with lid off is it is getting more air.
try this flip your air cover lid and see if it runs as good with lid off,if not then something on top of carb is sucking water in when lid is tightened down sounds crazy and almost nonsensical but the problem is wierd.
how about the vapor recovery system could water affect that if is compromised?
I Think I finally Nailed this one down. I decide to go ahead an check out the plugs again and found that the plug in cylinder number 1 was was very black. I went ahead and replaced the wire for that cylinder and the rotor. The problem seems to have went away. But the annoying thing is these parts were less than 6 months old. But I'm pretty sure that it fixed the problem. we have had a few rainy and snow days since then and it seems to do fine. Got my fingers crossed though.
