Riddle me this... (brake problem)

I just recently started getting a weird issue with my brakes. Obviously I want to fix this immediately but I have no earthly idea what could cause it.

Anyway, this is the problem. If I press down on the brake pedal gently, it'll go all the way to the floor and barely work to stop the car. If I press down on it fast, it'll damn near stop on a dime and apply braking pressure as it should.

My master cylinder is less than a year old, as is my brake booster. Any ideas where to start looking for this rather nasty gremlin?

have you checked your fluid level,also check for a fluid leak at the back,pull the drums and look at the wheel cyls. when you stomp on the brakes,your prop valve limits fluid pressure to your rear brakes to prevent rear wheel lockup. if you have a rear brake problem, it wouldn't show up under hard braking due to this. the rear wheel cyls. often go bad and fluid leaks out them when you step on the brakes. they aren't very expensive and pretty easy to replace. if you do find one leaking fluid,you might as well buy a set,buy a new set of rear shoes,and rear brake hardware. it's just peace of mind,once you rebuild the back, it will probably go fora long time without too much trouble. also check the rear brake hoses for fluid. they often get overlooked and can develop a leak that causes this.

Excellent, I will give it all a once over after it dries up a bit (screw you Ernesto!).

dont mean to hyjack the thread but i have the same problem. i havent replaced my master cyl though. i hope its not that, i think its just the fluid. i have the rear disks ready to go, besides the cables...and at the moment i dont drive the car much so its not a big issue. but i would like to fix it once i put the rear disks on. do you guys think i would need a new master cyl?

i will flush and put new brake fluid and of course im going to check the lines for leaks once i do it. but i would like to know if there are any other probably causes of this before i do the stated.

thanks in advance guys

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Originally Posted by mkymonkey

dont mean to hyjack the thread but i have the same problem. i havent replaced my master cyl though. i hope its not that, i think its just the fluid. i have the rear disks ready to go, besides the cables...and at the moment i dont drive the car much so its not a big issue. but i would like to fix it once i put the rear disks on. do you guys think i would need a new master cyl?
i will flush and put new brake fluid and of course im going to check the lines for leaks once i do it. but i would like to know if there are any other probably causes of this before i do the stated.
thanks in advance guys

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If your master cyl has a lot of miles on it I would replace it. they are pretty reasonable. I got mine from nappa and it has worked fine ever since. my old one failed without warning in my front yard. it's a divided system and it's not supposed to complely fail but it did. it's always a good idea to replace brake parts like that on an old car. when my master cyl failed,I replaced every part in my brake system. didn't want to find out what the next weak point was. watch your hoses too. they can also fail without warning. if they are original,get rid of them. they flex every time you press on the brake pedal and have a limited cycle life. after about ten years they should be replaced or sometimes even sooner. after twenty years,well do you like to gamble? when you replace a master cyl. also pick up a set of metric flare wrenches. you can really screw up those fittings without them.

freaking awesome!!!


thanks tim. i was just talking to my boss about it and he said that he'll pay for the cyl since i always go "cruise" for cars in my personal vehicle when im off of work even. so he said he'll pay for it as well as the labor....so i dont have to do any work :D yay

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Originally Posted by mkymonkey

freaking awesome!!!
thanks tim. i was just talking to my boss about it and he said that he'll pay for the cyl since i always go "cruise" for cars in my personal vehicle when im off of work even. so he said he'll pay for it as well as the labor....so i dont have to do any work :D yay

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lucky tell him i need one too...lol yeah my pedal goes way down....i will need to pick one up from napa since tim says that they are good.

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Originally Posted by MessyHonda

lucky tell him i need one too...lol yeah my pedal goes way down....i will need to pick one up from napa since tim says that they are good.

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just make sure to get some of those metric flare wrenchs,they are the special ones with a split in the side,they ae designed to go over the brake tubing and won't damage the fitting. when you get a new cyl. it will come with instructions on bench bleeding it. it's not difficult but it's important to follow them and do this. I would go ahead and replace all four rubber brakelines at the wheels,on an old car like this, the increase in pressure from the new master cyl. might cause them to fail. it's the best time to do it anyway while the system is already open,and has to be bled anyway. I'm glad some people are taking my advice,Honda makes good parts,but brake parts don't last forever. brake parts are under tremendous pressure and fatigue over time. it's actually a good idea on any old car to go ahead and overhaul the brakes as one of the first things you do. if the engine quits you can get it towed home and fix it ,if the brakes quit you might have to get it towed to the junkyard.

I got a NEW, not reman master cylinder from O'Reillys for about $70. Mine did the exact same thing, I'd have to put it in neutral at stop lights because the brakes bled down so bad. No leaks at any cylinder, and I did not seem to be losing fluid.

Just make sure you are very diligent in bleeding the master cylinder on the bench before actually installig it. It took us a good 15-20 minutes of pumping the master cylinder with the bypass tubes installed and tapping the body with a rubber mallet to get ALL the air bubbles out of the system. Of course, you have to drain it again to install it in the car, but the cylinder part will retain the fluid. Once it's installed you just refill it and bleed the brakes, starting at the rear passenger side, then the rear driver side, then the front passenger side, and lastly the front driver side. (Always start with the wheel furthest from the MC)

I used basic hand tools to replace it, nothing fancy. Yes you can buy line wrenches made for hydraulic lines, but they are definitely not necessary. A good fitting combination wrench will work fine, Line wrenches are just made to have a box end type head on them for less angle between the teeth for tight spaces. I have all Snap-On tools so mine do not round off fasteners. (dont go cheap on sockets and wrenches, get AT LEAST Craftsman quality on those)

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Originally Posted by RamThis

I got a NEW, not reman master cylinder from O'Reillys for about $70. Mine did the exact same thing, I'd have to put it in neutral at stop lights because the brakes bled down so bad. No leaks at any cylinder, and I did not seem to be losing fluid.
Just make sure you are very diligent in bleeding the master cylinder on the bench before actually installig it. It took us a good 15-20 minutes of pumping the master cylinder with the bypass tubes installed and tapping the body with a rubber mallet to get ALL the air bubbles out of the system. Of course, you have to drain it again to install it in the car, but the cylinder part will retain the fluid. Once it's installed you just refill it and bleed the brakes, starting at the rear passenger side, then the rear driver side, then the front passenger side, and lastly the front driver side. (Always start with the wheel furthest from the MC)
I used basic hand tools to replace it, nothing fancy. Yes you can buy line wrenches made for hydraulic lines, but they are definitely not necessary. A good fitting combination wrench will work fine, Line wrenches are just made to have a box end type head on them for less angle between the teeth for tight spaces. I have all Snap-On tools so mine do not round off fasteners. (dont go cheap on sockets and wrenches, get AT LEAST Craftsman quality on those)

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I bought the flare wrenches at Nappa,were expensive,but nobody else in town had them. very good qality. I have a bunch of their tools and have always been really happy with them. yes you can do the master cyl with standard wrenches,but the flares make it a lot eaisier. there was some reason on mine I couldn't get a standard wrench in there. I've always been taught to use flare wrenches on tube fittings is all. they are easy to damage if you aren't careful. I also got my master cyl new from there[nappa] ,about the same price. they are putting an O'reilies here,right next to autozone LOL. autozone here sucks big time. only decent autoparts stores we have are Nappa and car quest. the rest seem to focus on car wash products and junk geared towards the ricers,instead of parts. I can buy a car wash mitt at Walmart, carry some dam parts. anyway back on topic. just make sure to check those rear wheel cyls. too,they often develop leaks. if the bores in them aren't damaged you can also get a rebuild kit for them. very easy to rebuild.

Napa has some decent tools too. I use mine every day for my job so most of the tools I have I got Snap-On, even my box is a Snap-On. It's a black Nascar Monte Carlo Special Edition with two murals, registered collector's numbers, and red aluminum anodized trim. Drawers are so strong I can stand my fat ass in them and someone can still roll the drawer in and out with one finger. :rockon:

The only fastener that's a bit of a pain to get to is the nut on the master cylinder tab that mounts to the booster that is on the engine side of the booster. I used a long extension and a U-joint to reach it easier. The LX has less room in this area than the LX-i does though.

Also, check the seal on the brake booster. Use a brush and knock off any dirt around it, then using your finger, put a light coat of grease on it and the MC's piston to make sure it seals good and does not stick and roll the lip inward when you install the MC.

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Originally Posted by lostforawhile

just make sure to get some of those metric flare wrenchs,they are the special ones with a split in the side,they ae designed to go over the brake tubing and won't damage the fitting. when you get a new cyl. it will come with instructions on bench bleeding it. it's not difficult but it's important to follow them and do this. I would go ahead and replace all four rubber brakelines at the wheels,on an old car like this, the increase in pressure from the new master cyl. might cause them to fail. it's the best time to do it anyway while the system is already open,and has to be bled anyway. I'm glad some people are taking my advice,Honda makes good parts,but brake parts don't last forever. brake parts are under tremendous pressure and fatigue over time. it's actually a good idea on any old car to go ahead and overhaul the brakes as one of the first things you do. if the engine quits you can get it towed home and fix it ,if the brakes quit you might have to get it towed to the junkyard.

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thanks for the tips...my uncles Lx had a bad break line...but even with one gone he managed to stop...plus i can downshift it so i can slow down....E break also....well i already have new SS lines that im going to do with my SE-i rear disk swap. well my uncle is a mechanic at mazda so he knoes how to do most of the stuff. i just have to order it...i think some one put a Cb5 break clilinder...i want to see how its set up like that i can get one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RamThis

I got a NEW, not reman master cylinder from O'Reillys for about $70. Mine did the exact same thing, I'd have to put it in neutral at stop lights because the brakes bled down so bad. No leaks at any cylinder, and I did not seem to be losing fluid.
Just make sure you are very diligent in bleeding the master cylinder on the bench before actually installig it. It took us a good 15-20 minutes of pumping the master cylinder with the bypass tubes installed and tapping the body with a rubber mallet to get ALL the air bubbles out of the system. Of course, you have to drain it again to install it in the car, but the cylinder part will retain the fluid. Once it's installed you just refill it and bleed the brakes, starting at the rear passenger side, then the rear driver side, then the front passenger side, and lastly the front driver side. (Always start with the wheel furthest from the MC)
I used basic hand tools to replace it, nothing fancy. Yes you can buy line wrenches made for hydraulic lines, but they are definitely not necessary. A good fitting combination wrench will work fine, Line wrenches are just made to have a box end type head on them for less angle between the teeth for tight spaces. I have all Snap-On tools so mine do not round off fasteners. (dont go cheap on sockets and wrenches, get AT LEAST Craftsman quality on those)

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I dont understand why you would need to drain the MC to put it on? I understand you will loose a little fluid puttting the lines on but draining the whole thing could get air into the system pretty easy.

You can put the MC on the car fill it and bleed it right there then hook up the brake lines. They come with plugs dont they for the holes ? and hopefully the bleed kit as well > I never have bought one for a Honda :dunno:


wp

My bad, I'm not sure what I was thinking about draining the reservoir. Must have been thinking about when we pulled the old one off, used the vacuum drainer on it, either that or my tourettes is acting up again. It comes and goes..... :nuts:
Anyway, here are the actual instructions included with mine. Tells you just how to bench bleed it and install it. It's a two man job, as you will need to have someone to press down the brake pedal as you tighten the brake lines. Then you will probably want to bleed all the brake lines out to get fresh clean fluid through your system.
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