gold top vs. black top b20's

ok so i found that the gold top B20A (85-87 JDM) has 160hp & the black top B20A (87-89 JDM) has 140-145hp

just wanna know what the major differences are, Forrest & I have found that both the gold tops & black tops have a EGR, so it cant be that

maybe the black top has a cat. and the gold top doesnt?

or the ECU's are different?

from what i know (with the A20A3's) the 86-87 & 88-89 intake manifolds were different (with the 88-89 being better than the 86-78)

maybe the same applies for the b20a but the other way around?

i want to be able to get those extra 15-20 horses back in my black top, so yeah...

all input appreciated :)

one is vacume (sp) advance the other is electrical i know that

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/9140/p1010088kn2.jpg

Seriously though, either they had to meet some emission standards or they decided to measure it differently. Dunno how we would find that out :(

One thing though, the gold top B20A from the 2G lude for the european market is 137HP.

I thought you had the Gold top Overdosed?? It seems odd that they would make the newer version B20a with less horsepower it has to have more torque or something I would figure

nah, i have gold top *parts*, which is only the intake manifold, exhaust manifold, cams, throttle body, cam position sensor oh and the gold valve cover :P

im hoping that's all i would need to get those extra 15-20 horses back, but chances are it's not..

i remember a quote from Carotman saying something like "the black top had 160hp to start with, but has been tuned down to 140hp, but i believe it had 140hp to begin with"

i've been trying to find that post

Someone should update teh wikipedia wiki. I think I had advertised 160hp on there, long ago.

Strange.

yeah i thought the blacktop made more power since it was more advanced with the dual stage intake and better flowing exhaust like the a20a3

i just found out that my gold top parts dont have a EGR :o


see the diff.

black top:
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...r/f3da43d7.jpg

gold top (from a prelude):
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...r/a9fbe282.jpg

I saw a gold top for the first time in a 3rd gen accord at the junkyard it was a SOHC and I was like wtf is this gold for.....oh it was also carbed...

yeah i always wanted one of those gold top valve covers when i had my a18, it was toneloc's car that made me want that =)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tuxdreamerx

I saw a gold top for the first time in a 3rd gen accord at the junkyard it was a SOHC and I was like wtf is this gold for.....oh it was also carbed...

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that is a BS engine....its just left over engines from the prelude....they mostly came in 86 accords

i find it hard to believe they went down in hp. from what i've read on the forum and gathered, the only major difference between the two is that the black top has electronic advance and the gold has vacuum and other things like that. however, since they do use the a20a3 intake, then the black top may be more tuned down from the factory than the gold top if the gold makes 160 hp on the old a20a3 intake and the black makes 160 (or less?) on the new a20a3 intake.

i remember seeing a pic from a brochure or something were it actually shows the 2 engines and some info about them (in Japanese of course) been trynna find it for a while now.. im just contemplating on wheather or not i should put the gold top intake & exhaust on since they dont have a EGR??

Gold tops came in 2G ludes as well and were only 137bhp when new although after 60k miles they seems to gain quite a few bhp. From what i've seen it's down to ECU, cams, and slightly lower CR ratio, maybe inlet manifold design, the European version also didn't have EGR or Cat so really should have been a lot more powerfull? 137bhp is a lot less than 160bhp!!

Some of you guys are confusing things a bit.

EURO B20A1 and B20A2 engines without cat are rated at 137hp but have about 145hp on the dyno. They have a 9.5:1 C/R ratio. (B20A8 with cat has a 9.4:1 C/R ratio and rated at 133hp)
All Euro B20A's are using a mechanical ignition advance and only fuel delivery is controlled by the ecu.

JDM B20A engines all have a 9.4:1 C/R ratio and are all with cat, and both run a different distributor and exhaust cam sensor than the Euro B20A's. Goldtop is rated at 160hp, blacktop is rated at 145hp.
Goldtop is running an ecu that is divided into ignition control and fuel control, seperated from eachother. Blacktop is running an ecu with fuel and ignition control combined into one unit.
Goldtop has 1 O2 sensor, egr (prelude or early goldtop might not have EGR?) and singlestage manifold. Blacktop has 2 O2 sensors in the exhaust manifold, egr and a dual stage intake manifold.

As far as cams I dont know if theres any difference between gold and blacktop I havent bothered to compare them, but I can say that swapping JDM B20A goldtop cams into a Euro B20A makes no difference, and I couldnt tell any visible differences between them either. I forgot to measure the lift though, but again no visible diff.

i have two B20A2, gold cover and black cover, and both are same, i think only the serial nº is diferent.

Yes, B20A2 was made with both gold (1987) and black (1988-1989) valve cover. Apart from the valve cover they are the same.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thegreatdane

Some of you guys are confusing things a bit.
EURO B20A1 and B20A2 engines without cat are rated at 137hp but have about 145hp on the dyno. They have a 9.5:1 C/R ratio. (B20A8 with cat has a 9.4:1 C/R ratio and rated at 133hp)
All Euro B20A's are using a mechanical ignition advance and only fuel delivery is controlled by the ecu.
JDM B20A engines all have a 9.4:1 C/R ratio and are all with cat, and both run a different distributor and exhaust cam sensor than the Euro B20A's. Goldtop is rated at 160hp, blacktop is rated at 145hp.
Goldtop is running an ecu that is divided into ignition control and fuel control, seperated from eachother. Blacktop is running an ecu with fuel and ignition control combined into one unit.
Goldtop has 1 O2 sensor, egr (prelude or early goldtop might not have EGR?) and singlestage manifold. Blacktop has 2 O2 sensors in the exhaust manifold, egr and a dual stage intake manifold.
As far as cams I dont know if theres any difference between gold and blacktop I havent bothered to compare them, but I can say that swapping JDM B20A goldtop cams into a Euro B20A makes no difference, and I couldnt tell any visible differences between them either. I forgot to measure the lift though, but again no visible diff.

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thank you :wave:

Hmm, so even though the older JDM gold top engine is rated higher, is there anything from a black top JDM engine that I could install to give more power to my B20A1?

Stick some Hayabusa ITB's on with an aftermarket ECU that will make you go faster and then some cams from Cat Cams, biggest mod get rid of crappy 1.75" exhaust and put 2.25 inch all the way from cast manifold back or preferably custom made header or re cut 3rd Gen lude header.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steve_Si

Hmm, so even though the older JDM gold top engine is rated higher, is there anything from a black top JDM engine that I could install to give more power to my B20A1?

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Your engine is a B20A, regardless if it's a gold or blacktop because it's JDM. B20A1/2/8 only applies to the Euro market.

The only thing the blacktop has is the intake manifold but it's not worth it bothering to swap it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thegreatdane

Some of you guys are confusing things a bit.
EURO B20A1 and B20A2 engines without cat are rated at 137hp but have about 145hp on the dyno. They have a 9.5:1 C/R ratio. (B20A8 with cat has a 9.4:1 C/R ratio and rated at 133hp)
All Euro B20A's are using a mechanical ignition advance and only fuel delivery is controlled by the ecu.
JDM B20A engines all have a 9.4:1 C/R ratio and are all with cat, and both run a different distributor and exhaust cam sensor than the Euro B20A's. Goldtop is rated at 160hp, blacktop is rated at 145hp.
Goldtop is running an ecu that is divided into ignition control and fuel control, seperated from eachother. Blacktop is running an ecu with fuel and ignition control combined into one unit.
Goldtop has 1 O2 sensor, egr (prelude or early goldtop might not have EGR?) and singlestage manifold. Blacktop has 2 O2 sensors in the exhaust manifold, egr and a dual stage intake manifold.
As far as cams I dont know if theres any difference between gold and blacktop I havent bothered to compare them, but I can say that swapping JDM B20A goldtop cams into a Euro B20A makes no difference, and I couldnt tell any visible differences between them either. I forgot to measure the lift though, but again no visible diff.

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so then, what's the ecu code for the two? ph3 is the blacktop ecu, right? and would it be any benefit to use the gold top ecu with the black top engine?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thegreatdane

Some of you guys are confusing things a bit.
EURO B20A1 and B20A2 engines without cat are rated at 137hp but have about 145hp on the dyno. They have a 9.5:1 C/R ratio. (B20A8 with cat has a 9.4:1 C/R ratio and rated at 133hp)
All Euro B20A's are using a mechanical ignition advance and only fuel delivery is controlled by the ecu.
JDM B20A engines all have a 9.4:1 C/R ratio and are all with cat, and both run a different distributor and exhaust cam sensor than the Euro B20A's. Goldtop is rated at 160hp, blacktop is rated at 145hp.
Goldtop is running an ecu that is divided into ignition control and fuel control, seperated from eachother. Blacktop is running an ecu with fuel and ignition control combined into one unit.
Goldtop has 1 O2 sensor, egr (prelude or early goldtop might not have EGR?) and singlestage manifold. Blacktop has 2 O2 sensors in the exhaust manifold, egr and a dual stage intake manifold.
As far as cams I dont know if theres any difference between gold and blacktop I havent bothered to compare them, but I can say that swapping JDM B20A goldtop cams into a Euro B20A makes no difference, and I couldnt tell any visible differences between them either. I forgot to measure the lift though, but again no visible diff.

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I might add that the JDM blacktop has 1 O2 sensor also.

I have a lude GoldTop B20A here and it doesn't have an EGR port.

I think I compared part numbers some time ago and they were all the same between the goldtop and blacktop.

I guess the difference is just the way they measured the engine output.

Yes youre right about the O2 sensor being just a single one on the blacktop too. Was thinking of the A20A3 there for a minute.

huh, am i lost or what. i know your edm engines have less hp but did i hear someone say that the jdm gold top b20a has 160hp and the jdm black top has 145hp?? as far as im concerned all b20as that came in jdm accords are both 160hp. only diffrence between the blacktop and goldtop i found is the intake manifold.

2 of my 3 gold top b20a engines have no EGR whatsoever

the blacktop i have got for snoopyloopy has no egr either

explain..
i have a stack of ph3 accord b20a ecus and a pj5 jdm b20a 2g lude ecu
all ecus apart from the blacktops one are the same. and the one ecu from the car with egr has to go with another car with egr. thats random