engine biuld designs and who to do it

so the entire time Ive been working on my accord Ive had the thought that I alone would do all the work. Well its come to my attention that if I want to get it to the performance standards Im looking for Im going to have to find an external means of power. I was looking at the JG engine dymanics website and the sleeved block with turbo prep looks mighty fascinating.

Think of a jdm b20a with a 89mm stroke via a 29 lbs scat crank losing 4 lbs of recipricating mass alone in this one $600 step. Next the rods and piston combo in the tune of 86mm bore with new sleeves. That sounds mighty nice to me and the thought of 8k+ revs sounds even better. Granted the block prep alone works in the pocketbook of the tune about $4k plus shipping but with my turbo Id bet Id see a pretty easy 11.00 quarter mile times.

The headwork will be decided later as Im very positive the block prepped would sit in my garage for over a year as it has thus far. Just looking for options and found this one looking mighty nice

8k+ rpm will cost you a fortune to build and wont be very reliable
from reading tech articles by respected engine builders, the guys that build F1 engines and moto gp bike engines work on a max of 25 meters per second of piston speed and dont quite use that much .
piston integrity at higher than that is questionable and not worth pushing even with the stakes those guys play with and the seemingly endless budget.
the b20a p/s is near enuff to 20m/per sec at redline cause the stroke is so long.
i myself wouldnt go past 7k rpm for fear of throwing a rod, but i dont have the $15,000 to build a motor to go past that
but saying that i have seen a b20a rev to 8.5k rpm but it needed rebuilt every 100 hours of use and cost $20k to build
turbos are safe,cheap and reliable horse power.
unless you have the big dollars to build a reliable high rever, stick to a 7k rpm redline
and have a long engine life

yeah thats makes sence. I was figureing with an overbors maybe closer to a square bore I could cheat out some extra revs llike the b16 but with the 89mm stroke it makes sence pushing a 81mm piston or even larger who knows.

the whole piston speed thing illuded me for a bit there. I was thinking more masses and vloume with the drivetrain reliability.

Eagle makes a stroker kit for the b20a if you want to go that way. here the link.
http://www.importparts.com/shop/prod...oducts_id=1533

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Originally Posted by mykwikcoupe

yeah thats makes sence. I was figureing with an overbors maybe closer to a square bore I could cheat out some extra revs llike the b16 but with the 89mm stroke it makes sence pushing a 81mm piston or even larger who knows.

the whole piston speed thing illuded me for a bit there. I was thinking more masses and vloume with the drivetrain reliability.

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not to many people take piston speed into account when building an engine eh
using lighter weight rods and pistons aswell as having the crank knife edged and balanced might get you a few more revs but not that many.
havig the whole bottom end balanced will gain a few revs but mainly makes it easier and safer to live high in the rev range
also i dont think boring it out would get any more revs since all you are doing is swinging a heavier piston up and down the same stroke.

JG has a pretty bad rep these days so i would research who ever you plan to use.

I sent an email out the JG asking if they can do the resleeve and bore out to 86mm like they advetise for other b series blocks. Im not sure if the sleeves are only compatable with open decks not closed decks. Im planning on making the recipricating masses as light as possible so aftermarket crank, I beam rods, pistons the whole deal. I think when I told them it was similar to the b20a5 I lost thier interests after that.

I didnt realize there was a stroker kit, Ill have to look into that. The wifey finally got her honda pilot http://www.bellevuehonda.com/?http:/...bellevuehonda/ there it is in all its shiny glory. So this means its back to my toys and such hopefully

so say I go for the stroker kit in the way of a longer strok and shorter rods. This would improve my piston speed and fix the rod/piston ratio to a point.

Im still unsure if the RFM sleeves that come stock can be replaced with a stronder ductile type more sutable for high boost applications. can someone shed some light on this topic

If I cant get an email responce from JGE I wonder who else has a great reputation for biulding top notch turbo honda blocks.

Theres not enough room to have a 86mm bore B21's 83mm was pushing the limits in the B20A5 at the most maybe 84mm but you'll be needing a custom gasket to seal it whcih will be trouble.
Why not look into a crank with specs like a stock B18 and de-stroke it? Crower do lighter rods than the normal ones you get 100 grams lighter but i think there for N/A builds and low boost appplications shame no one makes titanium ones like the ones we can get for A20.
Might be worth looking at some titanium wirst pins to try and lighten the load a little on the rods.
You ca go to 82mm on stock Ajusa Head gaskets with a B18 spec crank that should make you about 1.9l engine with a much better stroke ratio for higher revs but if your tubocharging i think just stcking with your scat crank with rods and pistons with all the above i mentioned and keeping the revs to 8k or less should be fine the turbo is whats doing all the work and the engine will be spinning up much quicker than N/A with more revs so your gaining from that as well, just make sure you got a nice light flywheel and obviously a clutch that can hack the pace!!! So if you can get clutchnet in there.
OBviously an LSD is going to be essential along with sorting out that dowel pin that breaks off with extra power and abuse that you'll be giving it!!

well from an overall performance standpoint, What would be the better more PRACTICAL build. A high revving(8K+) engine with lower stroke, stock bore or a longer stroke, shorter rod bigger bore lower revving engine(less than 8K) revs for a turbo application.

I realize that all things being equal, for a turbo application the more air and the faster moving the better. Im looking for a low 11's car and the more biuld progress now up front rather than piece by piece. so what would be the better choice.

it seems to me, the more horsepower before turbo would result in more horsepower under boost. thanks for the help. mike

I think you should throw together a mild block to get your feet wet with the boost. I know i had a few issues but i would hate to dump a ton of money into a block of that scale to blow it up. Start off with pistons, rods, and maybe some stronger valve train. I spent a lot and i can only imagine what you will spend on a build like that.

Plus your hoarding to much stuff you need to reveal a boosted b20a before i get mine rebuilt!

LOL

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Originally Posted by RobT5580

Plus your hoarding to much stuff you need to reveal a boosted b20a before i get mine rebuilt!

LOL

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well I see it as part of the learning curve. I can see hwat works and doesnt work from everyone elses biuld designs and failures. I would love to just get the damn car up and running again. Its just been sitting in my garage for 3 years now taking up space.

I was cleaning up some old shelves of mine and found the front brake kit of yours rob and was debating installing it. I had the rotors resurfaced and I was in the middle of trying to source aftermarket calipers last I remember. I think if I found a set of GC coilovers Id have it done pretty soon

Best advice i can give is make sure you get it tuned, make sure the tuner is reputable with what your using, make sure the machine shop is thorough and clean, and watch your gauges for potention problems (i.e. boost creep, low oil pressure, overheating).

My downfall came from a combination of things once was certainly my fault, and my last was raceengineering sold me rings that were not meant for boost and i thought i was clear on that it was a boosted motor.

So make sure your pistons are 81.5 and not 81 even if you resleeve. This is because they don't have the XC rings for the 81mm bore which is what i found out. Fortunately my block is sleeved and just needs to be bored out for 81.5mm and i need new pistons.

ok so heres my new and improved idea for rebuilding my b20a. Rob gave me the idea of looking into what the b20a5 guys had going for them. Assuming the JDM B20a has iron sleeves and not the FRM sleeves I think Ill take the advise of 1funryd over on preludepower.com.

He says a stock 81mm block with factory sleeves, the ludespeed manifold, aftermarket lightweight rods, stock compression aftermarket SRP or wiseco pistons along with some new rings and hes proven 400HP on a b20a5 with a few other improvements.

Im thinking Ill take my ludespeed manifold and have a standard T3 flange installed on it as well as a wastegate flange so I can use my larger SC34 turbo. I still need to make sure rjudgey can do my headwork for me and Ill be set.

The next few things I need to find out. Can anyone tell for sure what type of sleeves the JDM B20a goldtop has?

Does anyone have any good ideas of where to place a wastegate bung on the ludespeed manifold. Rob had his added to the top and he had hood issues.

I have a new in box 35mm tial wastegate. Id like to use it but for what its worth will it handle the 325-400hp goal Im after or should I just dump it and go after the 40-44mm wastegates since I need to add a bung anyways?

Is it worth it to sell of my current ludespeed stuff and have another kit made since Ive basically changed my mind on every component since I bought it? Thanks again and let me know what you think

The ludespeed stuff is fine and the Tony on PP is using it and has reached 400whp with it. I didn't have hood problems i would if i didn't use a low profile 90 degree fitting for my boost controller. If you keep the flange real close to the manifold you should be safe. I think mine landed in between hood supports so it gave me a little more clearance.

I was gonna get a bigger wg but i think im going to see how things go because its paid for and it was good for i use to have.

Oh and i think the sleeves my machine shop used were stock B20A5 ones but remember they had to flame spray them to work them in. I didn't have any issues with them so i will cross my fingers since im re-using that block for my next build. But if you have a stock bore still then you don't need sleeves so don't waste your time or money.