Innovative mount thread - REFUNDS

okay well, i have spoke with my lawyer, i have a case. i mentioned that i'm not the only one that has been robbed in this situation and i ve estimated around $4000 was stoln from all of us. (correct me if i'm wrong)

being as my lawyer grew up with my dad, im straight on this. i wont have a problem collecting my money, and possibly even more. he's a good lawyer. plus my mother works for class-action attorneys. so either way this will all be resolved, and the person/people responsible for this will feel the financial pain. if you would like to be involved in getting your money back, PM me, or if you want to speak to me via telephone, my cell is 410-200-3693. feel free to contact me, my name is harvey.

he suggested i/we dispute it via paypal FIRST. as it should be insured through them, and then paypal would end up sueing him for these damages. if paypal is unable to resolve it, we have a case.

again, feel free to contact me, as i will be rigorously pursuing this.

thank you.

Ok, I've stayed out of this and the other thread because its really none of my business. I was not involved in the group buy, I've not been cheated out of my money, but I have a few things to say.

1. Paypal dispute is out of the question. Its been more than 45 days.
2. I do believe that a lawyer could potentially get everyones money back. This is a clear cut case of fraud. Money was payed, to a middle man, with the promise of a product, through a supplier. While it can be argued that Tommy (I Have NOTHING personal against Tommy or his fiance) dropped the ball, is in prison, etc, blah blah blah. Bottom line, money was NOT payed to Innovative, they didn't have any clue that a group buy was even in the works.
3. While this lawyer could get everyone their money back, unless hes doing it for free, your probly going to lose it all anyway. Ideal situation? Sit it out (And i know its very easy for me to say this, having no money tied up in this at all) and hope Tommy surfaces soon. Hes done nothing in the past like this, and I think its pretty far-fetched to say that he planned this. Who in their right mind would go to the lengths of providing 600 dollar mounts to a company, just to make out with just over 3k?


I'm with everyone else, though. I'd be UP-FUCKING-SET if 300 dollars of my hard earned money went poof. I really do hope Tommy, or his fiance, makes good and returns everyones money, or gets you guys the mounts.


I'm putting this in both threads.

EDIT: No i'm not, the other one is locked. As will this one i imagine really soon.

okay so it is past 45 days. my paypal was linked to my credit card. so i will dispute it with them. i'll be calling them in the morning. i have an entire record of all purchases so lets hope they'll be able to help. i spoke with my mother and the amount of people involved isn't enough for a class action lawsuit. so it's up to my credt card company, and then my personal lawyer. this is a case for fraud, and i was told this today when i spoke with him briefly. so there IS a case here.

personally, i dont' know tommy, and i have NOTHING against him. i just want what is rightfully MINE. either my money, or the mounts. thats what is fair. and the fact that it seems like tommy took all of our money, and Innovative had no idea that our group buy was in the works, that doesnt sit well with me. thats a plain case of fraud. we have been robbed. especially if dudes knew he was going to jail or whatever. that just proves to me even more that this was a scam. the money he got from all of us is more than likely spent, so it might have to come to a actual criminal lawsuit. and again, i'm going to keep this clean due to the fact that there is probably more to this situation that all of us know. BUT. that does not change the fact that all of us are owed. BIG TIME. if tommy knew he was possibly going to jail, it was EXTREMELY irresponsible of him to do this. knowing full well that this current situation was a very feasible ending. regardless, i dont give a damn if the money im owed goes to my lawyer. its PRINCIPLE. Harvey is not a dumbass, and he refuses to be taken advantage of like this. period. i work hard for my money and to think ANYONE is going to rob me out of what is rightfully mine is incredulous. i will NOT sit idle by any longer. i have for months, thinking that something positive would happen. i know how 3geez is with group buys, and i've been more than patient. i've had no communication with dudes, and it probably wont happen either. if im going to get my money, i have to take action. and that applies to ALL parties involved as well. you guys can hate me, bash me, taunt me, whatever helps you sleep at night, i dont care. but it will not stop me from going threw with what i need to do to make things right.

remember, i am not the only one that has been robbed here. i'm 22 and i dont make alot of money, but what i do make, is MINE. not this f_cking guys. i paid for goods, and have recieved nothing. and for that, i am pissed. sorry for the rant. but this just isnt fair, and let it be known that A20A3 wants what is rightfully his.

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Originally Posted by 2drSE-i

Ok, I've stayed out of this and the other thread because its really none of my business. I was not involved in the group buy, I've not been cheated out of my money, but I have a few things to say.

1. Paypal dispute is out of the question. Its been more than 45 days.
2. I do believe that a lawyer could potentially get everyones money back. This is a clear cut case of fraud. Money was payed, to a middle man, with the promise of a product, through a supplier. While it can be argued that Tommy (I Have NOTHING personal against Tommy or his fiance) dropped the ball, is in prison, etc, blah blah blah. Bottom line, money was NOT payed to Innovative, they didn't have any clue that a group buy was even in the works.
3. While this lawyer could get everyone their money back, unless hes doing it for free, your probly going to lose it all anyway. Ideal situation? Sit it out (And i know its very easy for me to say this, having no money tied up in this at all) and hope Tommy surfaces soon. Hes done nothing in the past like this, and I think its pretty far-fetched to say that he planned this. Who in their right mind would go to the lengths of providing 600 dollar mounts to a company, just to make out with just over 3k?


I'm with everyone else, though. I'd be UP-FUCKING-SET if 300 dollars of my hard earned money went poof. I really do hope Tommy, or his fiance, makes good and returns everyones money, or gets you guys the mounts.


I'm putting this in both threads.

EDIT: No i'm not, the other one is locked. As will this one i imagine really soon.

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Adam took the words right out of my mouth on that one.

Harvey, (et. al) I'm not going to try and talk you into or out of doing what you want to do. Honestly, I think you have all the right in the world to pursue this as you see fit. It's your money that you've worked hard for, and agreed, it's the principle beyond the dollar amount.

I'm honestly just torn on this. It's kept me up at night, and I've discussed it with my wife and a good friend of mine outside of this community because it just doesn't make sense.

Tommy may be a hot-tempered, shoot from the hip kind of guy, and he's been called the asshole before, and stirred up his fair share of controversy on this board in the past, and I don't think he'd argue that point (ok, yeah he would, but that's what he does). But he, just like you Harvey, and myself, Joe, Pearl, Yasu, Mike, A20A1Mikey, Steve, Rob, Johnny-O, Praveen, Maurice, Pickle, Juan, Dennis, Carot, Justin, Nate, Blazin, Hash, etc, etc, etc, Tommy is an OG too. He's been so excited and proud to build his animal. He owns 2 of these damn things. He's posted about, and researched, his setup on damn near every Honda forum there is (seriously, google his s/n and you'll see hits on so many different forums). 3Geez was/is his home away from home. Why would he steal from his own family?

Today I did google his s/n and he did pop up on so many other forums. As with this forum, he disappeared from everywhere online in early/mid June. All of those accounts have been idle since then.

Just like when our Aussie buddy was facing a HUGE financial problem where if he didn't come up with cash quick, his 3G was going to be sold out from under him, a lot of us (me not included, sorry) jumped in to help him out. By no means am I saying we should willingly want to help out someone that if nothing else, has proven he did at least fibb to us a bit. But I am saying that from the outside looking in (and I think I'm only capable of doing this because I don't have $$ shelled out on this), I am convinced that there's something more to this than just a random asshole that swindled a bunch of faceless names out of $300.

Bottom line is this is a big tainted shit-stain on our perfect record for group buys for this board. I feel bad for EVERYONE involved here and wish everyone the best of luck in whatever they choose to do to handle this situation.

does anyone actually KNOW what has happened? like where he has gone?

has anyone spoke to him at all?

it's the communication here thats really grinding my gears. i've been patient, to say the least. but there hasn't been any communication that i'm aware of. and i'm not interested in going threw all the BS posts in the end of the dickhead mounts thread, lets get to the main course. does anyone know anything in depth about this?

EDIT

i read the last 5 pages of the thread. the fact that he used his fiances' paypal account only further digs the hole. this was a scam from the beginning it looks like. oh well. i have printed all 20 whatever pages of that thread INCLUDING THE POSTS FROM HIS FIANCE.

it will be presented to my lawyer tomorrow when i see him. the evidence is mounting, and REGARDLESS of whatever life issues he is dealing with, the comments made regarding the refunds that COULD have been issued are all true. there was electronic records of who paid, and the amounts. AND IT WAS ON HER ACCOUNT WHICH SHE HAD EASY ACCESS TO. UNLESS, HE STARTED AN ACCOUNT UNDER HER NAME WITH THE INTENTION OF FRAUD. at any rate, the ENTIRE situation is insanely fishy. regardless of her involvement if the account was in her name, and she was aware of ANY MONEY IN IT THAT WAS TRANSFERRED FOR THIS PURCHASE, she is as good as guilty as well. and the lack of communication(especially mature communication) from them regarding this ordeal has only further showed me their possible ulterior motive. you know, the recession hits, and then jacking some good peeps for $4000 some starts to sound like a good idea to some i guess...

at any rate, i dont know the guy, or his fiance. and i dont hate either of them. but if they think that they are going to get away with this. well damn, they're are sorely mistaken. and they are going to see that. their life problems are not going to infringe mine and cause me problems. i have enough as it is. i'm just happy i have a kick-ass lawyer. and that i wont have to pay him nearly as much as some would have to pay a lawyer in a situation like this. gotta love family friends.

again, information is greatly appreciated.

and for the record, i will again state i have no problems with tommy, his fiance, or anyone else on here.

this is business, and i want my money. period.

i cant be more straight-up than that.

.

You really need to take a deep breathe here and relax. You are making allegations off presumptive speculations. Remember you have the burden of proof.

Making inflamatory statements "She is as guilty as well" will not help you in your efforts to recover your money. She tried to establish contact.

1. You will have to find the infomation to to file your claim. I hope you can search accurately. Filing claims with the wrong information can be costly.

2. I don't believe Tommy knew he was going to jail. (I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion)

3. This was a scam from the beginning, (the mounts are in production)

4. It's not $4000, it's just over $3000 give or take a few bucks.

5. And this is the one you really need to pay attention to. Slander, liable, making inflamatory accusations against someones character is grounds for countersuits that could reduce the amount of your award.

We are all concerned with the current situation. A number of people here have tried to find out what has happened. If you are going to persue this I caution you to restrain your emotions and think things through. Rationally!

Unexpected things happen to us all in life that forces us to detour. I'm sure all of you have suffered some of life's hard lessons.

Not to be a dick here, but this is already just turning back into an extension of the old thread. Accusations are going back around again. Someone is going to get butthurt.

I'd like to remind everybody who is not participating in this particular action to please suppress your opinions regarding the matter. You've already had the chance to speak your mind, that other thread was open for MONTHS. It's come to a close, it's over, all the info is there that you need to know in the old thread. If posting like this continues, this WILL wind up a locked thread, because it will spiral back out of control. Please keep that in mind before posting...

ya like newest said the mounts are now pritty much available why would he go thorough all the trouble to get them to that stage to just run off
about 2weeks before he disaperd he refunded me my initial 100 because i felt it wrong for me to expect a full set of mounts for only 100

i was glad to help with the purchase of the origanl mounts and thats all he refunded with no prob
that was also a money that newest put up for me in advance and i paid back with a lil interest

why would someone that was going to take someones money in the first place even bother to refund me me 100 bucks

tommy is a hot tempered person
i can easly see "cause ive meet him in person and seen him interact with his kids" him doing something to land him in a place of correction to protect them no questions asked and any of yo0u that have kids are prolly the same way

him using his finances paypal i can see as well
as he just recently about a year or so ago stopped a home stereo retail business

but sadly this is all gona be he said she said till we get solid facts

if any one and i mean anyone has his first and last name i will gladly take my time to call local correction facility in a 100 mile radius or hi home town to see if hes on the books
i have no issue doing this
but no one seems to even have his full name

how do you draw a lawsuit against some you dont even tech know his full name?
not trying to be funny thats an honest question

sorry dp

Hmmm

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. This pretty much sums up my thoughts.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/...c741d0f9bb.jpg


I would find out what REALLY happened to Tommy before doing anything...

i suggest everyone that was defrauded fill out a formal complaint on this link.

http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx

this is the site that the FBI links to when someone feels they have been defrauded through an internet scam.

i have not slandered this man at all or his wife in any way. i have not denegrated them nor their character. so don't forget that. ive said multiple times i have no problems with either of them personally.

what i do have a problem with, is how this business has been conducted. regardless of what has happened in their lives, people are owed either money or the goods. yes, the deposit was non-refundable. BUT, we were promised goods in exchange for our money. and we have no goods. no communication, and what appears to be be weak excuses for why there has been no progress. yes at this point, youre right. nobodys knows what has happened to tommy. but when people try to call his house or whatever, and everyone is ignored? come on! total BS. im sure by now his wife has informed him of this situation. and has anyone heard form them? hmmm......interesting. the more i re-read posts, the more clear the picture is.

the 20+ pages of the thread that was locked were faxed to my attorney this morning. i should be hearing from him this afternoon.

and i STRONGLY suggest that all parties involved in this, file complaints and take the necessary actions. the more people that come forward against this man, the better chance we have of getting our money back.

and remember, for me, i dont care if i get my money back or not. this is principle, and i will not be stolen from and take like a bitch.


and yes, i am sorry. i am hyped about this. but i hate being stolen from.
and i will not take it lightly.

it's completely understandable to feel this way harvey.

maybe you could provide your attorneys email or fax so that the parties involved can contact him with any information as well?

Dude, you really need to take a chill pill. It's good that you are moving forward with your complaint. You are right, the more people who file a complaint the better your chances of having a resolution. That's a broad term.

You have a Lawyer as a friend of the family in your corner, is the person willing to assist others involved. Or will there be fees involved?

What are you offering exactly? Is the question I'm asking. You are ranting and not explaining your plan to bring this matter to a resolution.

This is my position. I have had frivolous allegations made against me and just want you all to know that there are two sides to every story and the only ones who win are the lawyers.

Unless you are proceeding with criminal complaints, the chances of you recovering any monies involved is arduous at best. You must file a small claims complaint (fees involved).

You must provide correct infomatin for complaint filing and serving of said complaint (fees involved).

You must attempted mediation prior to scheduling of court appearence date.

You must appear for court date present your evidence and receive your ruling/judgement (hopefully).

Now comes the hard part enforcing the judgement. You can request the courts assistance (fees involved).

You can be awarded court costs in your judgement, but the trick here is to be able to enforce the judgement.

A judgement is no guarantee that you will ever recover the monies involved. But you will have your judgement.

phil why are you constantly trying to discourage others from seeing this through? we all know the likeliness of getting anything back is very slim, but a judgement is a judgement and it's not ok for someone to just walk away with 3000+ dollars. which is what i believe is happening here.

What makes you believe that he got away with the $3k?

We don't even know what happened to him.

Anyone drove to Tommy's house and knocked on the door?

the fact that the money isn't in the paypal account of the fiance, the fact that innovative doesn't have the money, the fact that no one has mounts, and the fact that no one has heard from tommy since may... i'd say that's a pretty good reason to believe it to me.

i'm going to keep a lot of comments to myself in this thread. i want to see this get as resolved as possible and feel that i've contributed all that i should at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carotman

What makes you believe that he got away with the $3k?

We don't even know what happened to him.

Anyone drove to Tommy's house and knocked on the door?

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if calling the house cause his girl to become upset I can only imagine what going to the house would do,I as much as anyone else would like to see this resolved as best possible-as I had mentioned in the old thread he did use his wifes account BUT they had attached tom's account to the paypal account for this.

Like I have said before and I will say it it again

1.The money "simply" needs to be accounted for or tom's location needs to be found out.

2.According to Innovative they sent the original mounts back to tommy AS well as a "prototype" set of the innovative mounts for letting them use the Place Racing mounts for design awhile back.

3. Harvey you need to call innovative and talk to Tim,he delt with tommy personally-call your lawyer and ask him for a list of questions you should ask Tim about his dealings with him.

/sigh

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the fact that the money isn't in the paypal account of the fiance,

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there is no fact nor proof of that

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Originally Posted by ghettogeddy

there is no fact nor proof of that

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then what would be her apprehension to refunding the money?

there's also no proof to the contrary.

me and you've been through this before... you can defend all you want but the fact of the matter is no one has money or the mounts... so what about that?

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Originally Posted by stat1K

then what would be her apprehension to refunding the money?

there's also no proof to the contrary.

me and you've been through this before... you can defend all you want but the fact of the matter is no one has money or the mounts... so what about that?

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once again she had nothing to do with the group buy besides her account she dosnt know how is owed what
because im pretty sure not everyone is owed the same amount as stated before i would not want my gf doing it cause im sure it would be done wrong

i am going to send an email to his fiancée explaining the situation cause apparently none of you have and we will see if anything happens

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ghettogeddy

once again she had nothing to do with the group buy besides her account she dosnt know how is owed what
because im pretty sure not everyone is owed the same amount as stated before i would not want my gf doing it cause im sure it would be done wrong

i am going to send an email to his fiancée explaining the situation cause apparently none of you have and we will see if anything happens

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if her account was used she is part of this. plain and simple.

as for what people are owed; if someone pays it's very simple to go into the transaction and click "ISSUE REFUND."

as for the email please do as i was under the impression that she didn't want anyone to contact nor was she returning any sort of contact from the members. please if you get a response i'm sure it would be very helpful to everyone involved.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stat1K

if her account was used she is part of this. plain and simple.

as for what people are owed; if someone pays it's very simple to go into the transaction and click "ISSUE REFUND."

as for the email please do as i was under the impression that she didn't want anyone to contact nor was she returning any sort of contact from the members. please if you get a response i'm sure it would be very helpful to everyone involved.

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email has been sent
awaiting response

and it wasent that she did not want to be contacted she just did not want here contact info on display