If the megan rear lower tie bar works, why doesnt the dc sports?

I went in the garage today all excited to install the dc lower tie bar I bought from wprocomp months ago. I carefully opened the instructions and read them thourly. They are very basic and more common sence. Next was the hardware to check fitment. The dc bar itself is too long to fit in the space provided. The jacking piont gets in the way and there is no way it would work. Im using the 90-93 accord rear lower tie bar. What gives?

If I recall correctly, you have to pound down the jacking point. As for length, you have me there.

Did you not have to notch the jack point to install the Megan tie bar? I was under the impression nothing would fit with that in the way.

I saw the post about the jacking piont being inthe way and it is definatly in the way. With the dc bar as short as it will go the mounts still ont line up. Maybe my rear subframe is narrower for some reason. I was only going to use it for astetic purposes and with me having to remove a function of the car I use regularly I doubt Ill use it anymore. I wasnt sure if anyone could post a pic of how they got theres to fit and what the end product looked like after they were done swaing and cutting. I wouldnt notch the jack piont, i would remove it comepletely.

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/i...35138e8e3d.jpg

That's a Megan on 1988HondaLXIAccord's car, I asked about it and all he mentioned was hacking the jack point. I guess you knew the Megan would fit but as for your subframe being narrower, I've compared his car to mine (had an OBX LTB sitting around) and it looks the same to me.

what car is the megan bar supposed to b for and how much of a difference will it make?

it makes no difference what so ever, it's one of the most pointless mods you can do.

I dunno. Mazda added one from the factory on the Miata in 1992. They did a lot of stupid little shit with tiebars and such... and people noticed the overall handling improvement <3.

so THATS how it fits, thats a piece of cake to make.

I agre with stat1k on this one. This is a useless mod on our cars.

The rear cross member is made of bent/welded sheet metal. This is one single construction and the lower arms from both sides will push against each other when cornering. There is no blank spare between both lower arms attachment points.

The rear cross member itself bolts to a bent sheet metal that's makes almost the entire car width and is spot welded to the trunk floor.

This mod is useful on EG Civics and DC Integras where there is blank space between both lower arms attachment. They also do not have a rear a separate sub frame like we do. It's only spot welded to the trunk.

Here's what I'm talking about.
http://www.invoauto.co.uk/images/Pro...r-13_large.jpg


Also, since we have 2 lower arms that are on each side of the rear wheel axis, the load isn't distributed on a single lower arm like the civics do. Our square shaped rear sub frame will not bend under load.

It looks good tough.

It would make more sense to put it on the front where the cross member makes an angle

http://thegreatdane.homepage.dk/aerodeck/16.jpg

I never really understood it either. They are already connected lol. Looks good though.

Shitty thing is you can't even see it on a 3G like you can on a Civic or Integra.

yeah I leaned against it when when I had to decide if i wanted to hack up the car. Its cool to say you have it but since my car is like 2 inches off the ground, no one except the car far behind me could see it and it seemed p0retty piontless when i went to install it. I guess I have a new in box 90-93 accord lower tie bar for sale.

i wonder if it can be modified to fit on the front? it might work there

If you want to make that rear center member stronger,the best way is to remove it and weld it solid instead of spot welds. that will make it fully boxed, and as strong as crap.a also on the front if you have the lude control arms, you can box the control arm with plate steel and make it a lot stronger too.

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Originally Posted by Joay

Shitty thing is you can't even see it on a 3G like you can on a Civic or Integra.

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The question is form over function, after seeing what stat1K and carotman are talking about, IMO it seems useless to put something on that does not improve handling and strength (especially if i have to pay money and modify my car to do it, instead of doing something more useful with my time and money). Doing it because it looks fancy? not my thing. It wouls be more wise to put the money towards a suspension or some better sway bars, and if you are looking for strength i would go with lostforawhile on his.... (which btw is a good idea, i will have to do that)

Yeah i just installed mine because i already bought one but my rear sway bar did more of a difference

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Originally Posted by lostforawhile

If you want to make that rear center member stronger,the best way is to remove it and weld it solid instead of spot welds. that will make it fully boxed, and as strong as crap.a also on the front if you have the lude control arms, you can box the control arm with plate steel and make it a lot stronger too.

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i wonder how much it would change the rear end's characteristic when cornering? it might be too strong... like having to big of a rear bar.

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Originally Posted by stat1K

i wonder how much it would change the rear end's characteristic when cornering? it might be too strong... like having to big of a rear bar.

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I doubt it, that frame section is built like the old frame section on a domestic car, all it would do is take out a little flex and make it stronger.

yeah i just wonder how it would react with independent rear arms, i'm sure it would just be a little stiffer.

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Originally Posted by stat1K

yeah i just wonder how it would react with independent rear arms, i'm sure it would just be a little stiffer.

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I think it would just give a more solid platform for the rear arms is all. like everything else on the car it's overbuilt to begin with. they used spots because of production cost. If you really want to make a car stronger, and you have it down to bare metal, go through it and double the spot welds. talking about add one between every existing one. This is common for people who restore vintage race cars. huge difference , the reason i said to box the lude arms is because the ball joints can be removed first, with the welded in ball joint you might have heat damage. there's a lot of flex in those upper arms. I have a set here but i can't remember how to modify them to fit off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by stat1K

i wonder how much it would change the rear end's characteristic when cornering? it might be too strong... like having to big of a rear bar.

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I'm with you on this. We pride ourselves (us 3G guys) for having one of the early adaptations (and still very good) of 4 wheel independent suspension. ...but this is something that aids itself more to comfort than a true race and steering-response characteristics. While IMO it's still necessary for independent suspension at all 4 corners, tying them in together with a strong rear anti-sway bar is also a necessity (when done right) to achieve predictable and very useful oversteer especially important in a front wheel drive car.

A super stiff rear end (with respect to getting both sides to act in unison on full weight shifts) will allow the rear end to me much more 'loose' and allow you much more control and responsiveness with your steering (also your drive wheels).

Where the independence is needed is with the undulations and other anomolies in the road surface where if one rear wheel hits something, you don't want that to translate to tossing the other rear wheel into a bounce or dip. Look at 'bump steer' for all the reasons why not to tie them in together so stiff that they can't act indepenedently any longer. If you hit a bump with only one front wheel, do get any 'bump steer'? Nope. ...but if you hit a bump with both wheels (ie. bridge sections, road breaks, etc) especially on a turn, do you get 'bump steer'? Yep. ...because both wheels are breaking traction for a split second, not just one. With the independent rear, you have the ability to not for the entire rear to lose traction. A non-independent rear will break traction much easier and can make life interesting pretty damn quick.

So yeah, a nice balance of super stiff, but not solid, is needed. ...but anything anyone can do to stiffen up the back of a FWD car (in general) will greatly help its handling. Even if it's by adding some seemingly useless part that adds only a teenie bit of rigidity. It's the sum of all parts that makes the difference, not just one.

That said, if you were to have to hack the jack-point (which aids in the structural rigidity of the unibody back there) just to add this thing (which I'm sure has some play in it) aren't you just stealing from Peter to pay Paul? Net net, you're in the same place you were, except now you can't lift the car from that point anymore. idk.

yet again, a long winded response.

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Originally Posted by MessyHonda

Yeah i just installed mine because i already bought one but my rear sway bar did more of a difference

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from what i understand, sway bars will make the biggest difference, besides say shocks and springs

i've got a megan tiebar.. never installed it though

yeah i can see that you would want more stiffness in the rear but it's all going to come down to personal preference really. I know that when i first installed my front bar it seemed to stiff to me but after i got used to it and took it off it felt terrible. I'm pretty happy with the setup my car has with a bigger rear bar since the dx civic's didn't come with the rear bar to begin with (still had the holes and all but no bar). i just think if i put more stiffness back there that i would have to get used to it all over again, granted i don't race the car so for daily purposes i don't think i'd reweld anything. that's just me though... i'm sure if i had a welder i'd be saying different lol.

it's not a perfect science, but if you wanted to tinker with getting more of an oversteering car than an understeer (as is most common with damn near all FWD cars), take your stock front springs from your pile of parts in the corner and cut the needed amount of coils off them to get them at the same ride height of your rear. Then swap them out in place of your lowering springs up front, and viola, oversteer.

I did the same thing you did. I had already put the rear 88-89 LX-i bar in my DX (which came with no bar in back from factory) and loved the way it felt. Then a few years later I got off my ass and put the front LX-i bar on in place of the stock DX, and I was PISSED OFF. I hated it. Understeer like mad. Slam the car into a corner, start turning, then it just pushed through and the steering wheel didn't help much. I was just in it for the ride. ...and I yanked that bar, put the stocker back in, and now I stuck the turn without the 'push' (aka. understeer).

I'll put the LX-i bar back in front once I get the SusTech of Addco for the rear. ...in time, in time.