Jackson Racing Supercarged A20A3

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10-02-2005, 03:39 AM
lostforawhile

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradSA138

If the 3g has a macpherson suspension(sorry late at night, and intoxicated-don't want to wake the whole house up) setup, why not upgrade to a double wishbone setup, shouldn't that give more room in the bay?

our car has a double wishbone suspension on all four corners,the srut is not realy a mc pherson strut in the traditional sense,it acts more like a shock absorber. this was the first year for it and as far as i know they still use a version of it today. I've heard that on one of the new accords without it road and track commented on how the handling wasn't as good. not to get off topic but our cars got one of the best suspensions ever put on a honda. anyway back on topic,i'm sure that you could substitute the word turbocharger for supercharger and find people sayings the same things when someone put the first turbp on a three g.
10-02-2005, 03:42 AM
lostforawhile

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradSA138

If the 3g has a macpherson suspension(sorry late at night, and intoxicated-don't want to wake the whole house up) setup, why not upgrade to a double wishbone setup, shouldn't that give more room in the bay?

our car has a double wishbone suspension on all four corners,the srut is not realy a mc pherson strut in the traditional sense,it acts more like a shock absorber. this was the first year for it and as far as i know they still use a version of it today. I've heard that on one of the new accords without it road and track commented on how the handling wasn't as good. not to get off topic but our cars got one of the best suspensions ever put on a honda. anyway back on topic,i'm sure that you could substitute the word turbocharger for supercharger and find people sayings the same things when someone put the first turbo on a three g. If I had the money and time i would like to undertake this project myself,but lately i don't even have enough time to finish my bodywork.
10-02-2005, 08:19 AM
lostforawhile

ok i remember some old info on the early jackson supercharger, i believe he had made a countershaft assembly for one of the civics. in other words the pulley was on the end opposite the pulleys and power was transmitted through a simple countershaft assembly at the back of the motor. the belt drove one end of the countershaft and a short belt on the other end drove the supercharger. this also reversed the direction so it was turning properly. in this configuration it solved the master cyl. problem same as our car. I def remember reading about this somewhere. anyone else???
10-02-2005, 09:39 AM
Oldblueaccord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accordtheory

who has done this so far? No one that I know of. Just do it, don't be a pussy and let people talk you out of doing something different. Turbos are such a pain in the ass. Iv'e badly damaged 2 engines and set my car on fire because of a turbo. A supercharger would be much easier to set up physically, but you'll still need to do something about management, just like me. I'm trying to figure out obd-1 for my built b series turbo. Neptune RTP vs CROME + ostrich vs Hondata s300.. I don't know yet. The Neptune RTP is bluetooth capable, that is fucking p.i.m.p, program your ecu via laptop with no wires..

Dude thanks for the prespective its about time someone interjected some real insight in to turbo motors instead of the internet "wisdom" and "experience" that we read about from people that, dont post here anymore or don't own our type of car or never did.

And just to add Jackson's been around forever is a real company, not an internet pipe dream, and the products are WARRENTIED for 100k miles. That to me atleast says alot about the setup in general. I do not think Oscar Jackson owns the company anymore.

another old thread couple good pics near the end of the thread

https://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?...3&page=2&pp=20

Good luck.

wp
10-05-2005, 12:18 PM
89ACCORDVTECH

BIG PROPS to accordtheory,hondaboy, lost for a while,and every one else that has confidence in me . Because of positive thinking true honda enthusiasts like you guyz ,you make it possible for people like me to keep coming up with great ideas like these. i dont care what people say this project will be done no matter what .Yes the car is going to be a track vehicle but also a cruiser but not an every day driver.I've had people tell me things like this before, like when i wanted to put an h22 vtec head on an h23 block.Its because of negative fuckers like that is why some of these cool ideas that could actually work dont get done because they discourage people as much as possible "F&$# ALL YOU HATERS". :mad:
10-05-2005, 12:24 PM
89ACCORDVTECH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Accordtheory

Too many people on 3geez are too negative and eager to give up. Everyone has to start somewhere. If modifying cars and mechanical things is what you like/are good at, then just do it! Fuck.. I remember so many people that I came across when I was building my turbo 3g were so negative and gave me so much bullshit, it was ridiculous. People were constantly trying to give me "advice", and like so many people who attempt to modify cars, were completely without conceptual knowledge. A moron at Kragen told me to upgrade my Valvespring retainers, of all things, and then got all pissy with me. "I've been building engines for more years than you are old".. I said what you know about cylinder press vs. crankshaft angle? Timing and maximum brake torque? flame propagation and boost? How you can increase hp without increasing maximum cylinder press?? How you gonna give Me advice??" And I know enough to know that I don't know shit compared to what I could know, and that makes me want to learn more and more.

That said, a supercharger will get beaten by a (properly sized) turbo at the same boost level, and can be hp limited due to intercooler packaging concerns, but the supercharger is really nice for the street, it's almost like driving around with a bigger n/a engine. So if that sounds appealing to you, and the thing will actually fit in the accord bay, then Go For It. You willl be the Only one I know of to have pulled it off, and you will no doubt learn a lot along the way.

my point exactly . thanx bro
10-05-2005, 12:36 PM
ICEMAN707

dude just chill. this is after all, a FORUM. you wanted opinions, you got opinions. some people think negatively, some people think positively. whomever group you thank is AFTER you do the project. not before. cus you never know which side is right till the end.

i seriously would like you to look at the 3gee engine bay before you get mad. then maybe it would change your mind. you'll see how close it sits to the frame on the driver's side making it extremely difficult to attach a belt system in there. you'd have to realize the a20a3 is a bigger engine than any b-series - just with a smaller SOHC head and tranny. looks can be deceiving.

now in terms of cost-efficiency, for the price ($3000 for the kit) and labor you have to do just to get it to fit, you would have done an engine swap already. now getting the supercharger to work properly with the engine, that's another story. by then you would have been rolling in your fully swapped 3gee and ready for new bolt on mods instead of having a headache of getting the charger to work properly. hell with the swap, you would be able to put that supercharger system in with ease. your chance of success would increase.

i think in my opinion, in order to put parts off another engine in a 3gee properly is to actually PUT that engine in the 3gee that part is actually made for. ghetto rigging a part just to fit is not a smart way to spend money and time when it comes to engines cus that's the heart of the car. it's not like a bodykit where you have plenty of room for error to correct yourself. the engine, if you screw that up, you screw up the entire car's whole driveability.
10-05-2005, 03:43 PM
lostforawhile

ok i remember some old info on the early jackson supercharger, i believe he had made a countershaft assembly for one of the civics. in other words the pulley was on the end opposite the pulleys and power was transmitted through a simple countershaft assembly at the back of the motor. the belt drove one end of the countershaft and a short belt on the other end drove the supercharger. this also reversed the direction so it was turning properly. in this configuration it solved the master cyl. problem same as our car. I def remember reading about this somewhere. anyone else???------------

i believe the problem was already solved as i mentioned before, this was done when the supercharger first came out. there was a countershaft assembly as i mentioned before. the pulley on the drivers side was fixed, and the belt ran through it and was adjusted on the front of the engine, the pulley was low down near the back of engine to solve any clearance problems,then an enclosed shaft ran to opposite side of the engine where there was more room,this drove a pulley which drove the supercharger. it sounds complicated but it was very compact. this gave you lot of room for the supercharger pulley. and everything else and took up almost no room on the drivers side. it was done for a civic but it had the same problems we had. if anyone else remembers seeing this,post any info you remember. as far as controls,if an a20 can be turboed, it can be supercharged,boost is boost, an ignition box that has a boost control like msd will help solve your detonation problems.
10-05-2005, 06:22 PM
phrenology

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89ACCORDVTECH

BIG PROPS to accordtheory,hondaboy, lost for a while,and every one else that has confidence in me . Because of positive thinking true honda enthusiasts like you guyz ,you make it possible for people like me to keep coming up with great ideas like these. i dont care what people say this project will be done no matter what .Yes the car is going to be a track vehicle but also a cruiser but not an every day driver.I've had people tell me things like this before, like when i wanted to put an h22 vtec head on an h23 block.Its because of negative fuckers like that is why some of these cool ideas that could actually work dont get done because they discourage people as much as possible "F&$# ALL YOU HATERS". :mad:

Chill out man! No one's hating here. I'm just very skeptical especially when a noob gets on here posting stuff about having lots of money and a project idea without at least considering some of the info that is already on here about that subject. Look at the old posts, look at the stickies, compare notes and come up with a good plan.

When ShimriC got all hooked on the RWD 3G (as absurd as it sounded) I didn't jump on his case, in fact I was very supportive (as were many others) despite all the nay-sayers. But we gave that a few weeks and even after all of A20A1's ideas, schematics and actual research that project took a big shit and he went and bought another car. We're not trying to be assholes but we're just practical and a bit skeptical...

A lot of us have been on here longer than you and have seen people come and go with some great ideas and some pretty stupid-ass talking projects. The ideas that often receive praise are the one's that are well thought out even if they are borderline ridiculous. Do your homework, prove us wrong and we'll all believe it when we see it!

Do a little research, draw up some plans, write out your budget, take pics (and do a little photoshop or CAD) and take a little initiative to show people that your project isn't just a pipe dream and then I'm sure you'll see much less resistance within the forum community.
Good luck with your project! :thumbup:
10-05-2005, 06:27 PM
bobafett

^^^ well said
10-05-2005, 06:32 PM
snoopyloopy

supercharging an a20 would be relatively easy compared to converting to rwd w/ an f20c like that one fellow was trying to do. just some time and effort and will to research. and have you (or anyone, for that matter) tried looking at the vortech sc and seeing how it might fit? you'd have to jimmy some things around, but it could be worth a look as well.
10-05-2005, 07:18 PM
lostforawhile

yea i hope someone can dig up some old info on the civic setup i was talking about,it would help a lot that some of the bugs had already been worked out in that project. they originally had a problem with the supercharger turning the wrong way and hiting the master cylinder. just transfering power from one side of the engine to the other was brilliant in my view.
10-05-2005, 07:24 PM
lostforawhile

this one has the pulley on the same side as ours,the other setup i saw had it on the oposite with the power transfer shaft.
http://www.streetsports.com/Photos/V...percharger.jpg
10-05-2005, 07:30 PM
HYDE

I'm sure you can do it! because i know somebody who actually supercharge an A20A1! :rockon: no joke bro. I don't know the details but he modified the engine to a bigger 2200cc displacement(overbore?sorry i'm a noob) changed the pistons, etc and ran on 10:1 compression or more i'm not really sure. I heard he dynoed at 180 hp. :deal:
10-05-2005, 07:36 PM
lostforawhile

yea this thing isn't that big, (the supercharger) i don't think you would have to go up to much bigger unless you wanted, i mean they run these on 1.5s all day,we've already got more displacment then every 1.5 ricer civic out there. vtech or not it's still a big tough iron block,people can run it down all day, but it's still bigger then a lot of hondas. 1.5 < 2.0
10-08-2005, 03:14 PM
Accordtheory

Another thing I would be curious to see but would never build myself is a centrifugally supercharged a20. I don't know exactly where the supercharger would fit, maybe just like the civic si kit, or maybe in the location of the a/c compressor..? I can almost guarantee it would make at Least 220 whp on 14 psi, on stock everything (except exhaust) if tuned correctly with a chipped obd-1 ecu. Upgrade and the sky (or your bank/credit card) is the limit. I would be impressed, but not That impressed to see a 300whp supercharged a20. Just don't try that on an old abused engine with pathetic oil pressure, you'll end up with an oil pan full of metal...and if you get any knock, your ring lands will break like they're made of glass. I have experienced both of those scenarios. You can use the j&s safeguard with the obd-1 ecu, factory honda knock control doesn't work. My friend's moderately high compression n/a ls/vtec would ping lightly on hot days for a second before the ecu would retard the timing, and after a couple months, he had 2 broken pistons..
10-08-2005, 11:51 PM
89ACCORDVTECH

I've done furhter research and i've decided to go with the vortech .The brackets i can machine at my work and i can fabricate all the plumbing and after cooler location . i'm going to relocate the power steering resevior and out stuff in the along with the complete OBD-1 p-75 conversion with the H23 fuel and ignition system . I have a couple other kinks to work out but everything looks good so far with the head and bottom end layout that i already have put together 300WHP should be an easily achievable goal. :rockon: :rice:
10-08-2005, 11:57 PM
89ACCORDVTECH

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafett

super charger would be fine for daily driving. for people who dont like super high rpm ,and arent willing to tolerate turbo lag... sure... in fact superchargers can make like 40-60hp on a honda! ;-) lol

ok ill stop now... there are exceptions to every rule, but low displacement honda's just dont respond that well to superchargers... ive never read of a truly fast one. and if your going to bother doing a project like this, why just use it as a daily driver. seems like a waste to me!

:) ill try to stay out of this thread until new ideas come to light or some progress is made...

Uhh okay,, thats why supercharged K series and the new F series like in the S2K make way more power on a super charger than any turbo that they can get on there without having a tremendous amount of lag .

better luck next time
:uh:
10-09-2005, 12:58 AM
Soundy

Quote:

Originally Posted by phrenology

The main thing with SC is that you need a big motor to overcome the torque loss needed to make big gains with a SC. But there are examples of small engine SC look at the Mini Cooper-S.

Hmmmm, interesting thread... nothing really useful to add, but it did occur to me, a more common example of SC'ing a small engine in an even smaller space would be Toyota's supercharged MR-2s...
10-09-2005, 01:25 AM
A20A1

I think when people install the SC they think it's just bolt and go... they don't bother tuning it much or upgrading the engine management.

Some TRD SC users have a high rpm lean out issue that they said the factory ignored against the SC developers recommendations.
10-09-2005, 10:13 AM
bobafett

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89ACCORDVTECH

Uhh okay,, thats why supercharged K series and the new F series like in the S2K make way more power on a super charger than any turbo that they can get on there without having a tremendous amount of lag .

better luck next time
:uh:

obviously i dont have any numbers in front of me, but everything i have read about supercharged F's seemed to be pretty sad. honestly i havent read much about supercharged K's, but i know that the turbocharged ones make really good power. (the k and f series motors are really good motors, and respond well)

and yes you are totally right, any turbo'd honda that makes 400+ hp, is going to have to deal with significant turbo lag. its the name of the game.

im curious what your realistic goal is for completing this project, so i know when i should check back and see the status. you already know how i feel about the project, but that doesnt change the fact that i would love to see it accomplished. :)
10-09-2005, 02:23 PM
Accordtheory

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89ACCORDVTECH

along with the complete OBD-1 p-75 conversion with the H23 fuel and ignition system

What do you mean by the h23 fuel and ignition system, h23 injectors and an h23 distributor? I would at least get the dsm 450s.. Are you going to incorporate a knock sensor into your setup? You might be able to find a J&S safeguard on ebay for a good deal, I've done that twice.

p.s. supposedly spec makes a nice clutch for these cars, it is custom though, but when you see how nothing else will hold shit for power, that's what you get..
10-11-2005, 08:54 PM
89ACCORDVTECH

My money is for a setup that will work not for a setup that will cost me more money and give me the same numbers . Trust me the research that i've done on the H23 fuel system and the amount of H-series motors that i've built that will out run any K-series of now in any car ,no offense but i will stick with my original idea. Check out my shop site at www.swapshopracing.com
10-11-2005, 08:54 PM
89ACCORDVTECH

:uh: j/k
11-16-2006, 02:08 PM
ZackieDarko

Re: Jackson Racing Supercarged A20A3

so what ever happend to this?

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