Tuning vs. Modding

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Originally Posted by MessyHonda

yeah i hope...i was thinking of doing a head job on a spare a20 that i have...but money is tight and like i said i dont plan on spending alot of money on this car...its just my frist car to get my hands drity. im only 18 years old and i dont plan on keeping this car the rest of my life...and if i do...i will restore it and put it in storage....then take it out when im old...lol(hey grandson i was one of the biggest postwhores on 3geez back in the day)

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lol!!!!

i don't if you realize but i am almost twice you'r age and i am still having fun with it.
back in the day when bass first hit stereos i was installing them at custom car stereo. then i had a ford tempo with 5000 watts of power. it was the cleanest and loudest in the springs...i loand it to a chick and she tore it up. That was the first car i put a turbo in. SHe ran a 14.4 1/4 untuned. I still hold the record for the fastest tempo with a 2.3l ohv hso motor.

alittle off topic but oh well.

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Originally Posted by MessyHonda

yeah i hope...i was thinking of doing a head job on a spare a20 that i have...but money is tight and like i said i dont plan on spending alot of money on this car...its just my frist car to get my hands drity. im only 18 years old and i dont plan on keeping this car the rest of my life...and if i do...i will restore it and put it in storage....then take it out when im old...lol(hey grandson i was one of the biggest postwhores on 3geez back in the day)

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what's wrong with keep your car the rest of your life? first of all, statistics mandate that you run the high risk of ending your life in your car before you reach the age of 25. then, i want to be able to show my kids what a car looks like, not a computer with wheels which is what looks like it'll be out soon. i even saw a nanomachines concept car that would assemble itself. that just plain scares me to be honest.

oh, on topic now. yes, it is possible (and cheaper) to tune by hand, but it's a huge pain. but converting to obd-1 could be just as big of a pain. so it's all up to you.

Re-built stock engine with some DIY head work, inlet manifold mods, Throttle body mods, CAI, header, exhaust, Cat, mild camshaft, adjustable pulley either eagle or ghetto rigged, balanced injectors maybe slightly bigger cc, FPR, Wide band O2 sensor with gauge so you can see how rich or lean it is, DIY ECU and ignition from Megasquirt which is fully mappable and you should be able to tune that to around 160bhp with ease maybe a little more with more advanced headwork definately more if you increase valve sizes and also change the inlet manifold for aftermarket or ITB's but then there goes your budget. The above can be done relatively cheaply and only requires mounting differnet sensors on the engine and a crank trigger disk which to be honest is probably the hardest bit to do.

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Originally Posted by MessyHonda

my CAI killed a lil of my low end i also have the adjustable cam gear but i will have to get it dynoed to find out wut is the best combination....with performance parts you lose low end and you gain top end.

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you just need a CAI with a smaller diameter ;)

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Originally Posted by frantik

you just need a CAI with a smaller diameter ;)

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naw i can just adjust my cam gear to get low end.....it does not bug me since i dont like my clutch and i dont want to burn it out b4 its time.

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Originally Posted by MessyHonda

naw i can just adjust my cam gear to get low end.....it does not bug me since i dont like my clutch and i dont want to burn it out b4 its time.

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How do I adjust my cam gear?

imo its not worth the money to tune a stock car just to get a few hp, cause you want to tune it for the mods that you have (that it sounds like you still need to get).

around here dyno tuning is 130-150/hr, so you don't want to spend more time on there than you have to. :(

I feel that if you just have bolt ons, then tuning is going to be a waste of your money. if you only have bolt ons then you are not serious about going fast, and if you are serious about going fast, then you have more mods to do before you drop $$$ on a tune. expect a tune to cost between $400-$800 (at least around here). you dont want to do that everytime you change your muffler or intake.... :(

if you start to crack open the motor and really change things, i am sure that a semi wild cam could justify some tuning, and headwork etc certainly could... but seriously, most people just get bolt ons, and i don't feel like its worth it to spend the money on maybe a few hp, when the tune will cost more than all the mods on the car.

that being said with a modded setup, tuning is critical, just look at my car, its not running cause the stock ecu wont play nice. 10:1 AFR, 15:1 AFR, i just never know what I am gonna get. and i dont know WHY!!!! ARG! so OBD1 is calling my name. :D

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Originally Posted by BeatThisLXI

How do I adjust my cam gear?

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you got to get one of these
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...F2203Small.jpg

i think many people with serious serious setups (turbo, nitrous or hardcore NA) dont spend enough time tuning (like myself at times) but you can gain serious gains and driveability in the tuning, but if its just minor bolt ons youre wasting your time

well, if you have stock engine, it would be very useless do a tuninng on it.
first you won't gain a lot of power. may be a mother power curve and a little more power but it won't be much.
Best way to do is add bolt ons or other things that would give the power and take it to a dyno. Dyno is the only way you can properly tune the car.
So lets say you have stock accord and you just installed SAFC and adjustible cam gear. If you are going to use BUTT DYNO, in most cases it would be wrong tunning. You can get close but if you want exact DYNO is the only way.
as far as i know, you can advance timing by rotating distributor, but you can only do so much. Plus you have to remember that out distributor had vacuum advance control. If you want to take a full advantage of tunning convert to OBD1 or at least OBD0, otherwise you will be waisting your money.

our cars aren't obd0? :wtf:

ya, i thought the efi's were obd0, i didn't think the 2bbl's are since there isn't a real fuel management system, but ya.

if you want to learn tuning, i'd suggest reading up on pgmfi.org
they have some real interesting stuff, as for wiring tho and actual tuning, lol good luck and happy spending.

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Originally Posted by snoopyloopy

our cars aren't obd0? :wtf:

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yeah they are....i think its just a typo :bong:

tuning, 2bbl is tuning you increase mixture on the carb and your tuning the secret is to have a O2 sensor on the exhaust and gauge or exhaust CO2 machine on the back that way you can tell how lean and rich your running to find the sweet spot, also helps if you ahve a rolling road as well, combined with adjusting the ignition and cam timing you'll get good results. With carb instead od using a computer ad keyboard you have to use a screwdriver and needle reemer or drill!!
MAIN reason i have Weber DCOE's is because i can tune that setup for anything i want Turbo or hardcore N/A i have every jet, air corrector emulsion tube, idle jet, choke sizes, veturi's that you can buy for DCOE 45's so that if i change the camshaft, or run a different head, or hell swap from A20 to B20A i can tune it to exactly what the engine wants to run best at!! And that's worth a lot but when you consider rolling road time is very expensive it soon pays for itself and all it costs you then is just time and fuel!!
You can do the same if you have a fully aftermarket ECU and igntion system then all you need instead of jets is a laptop to change the fuel and ignition maps but i hate electronics in cars so i'll stick to my trusty screwdriver and leave electronics well alone although wouldn't mind a 3D mappable igntion with crank wheel and sensor that would be good for a few bhp over stock system not to mention higher revs!!

nope our cars are wired up to half of OBD0, technicaly we are Pre-OBD0. Since our cars have vacuum timing control, computer has no way of controlling. you would have to modify another distributor to fit and add more wires for the ecu to control the timing.
If we had obd0 wirring we could use other ECUs. I know obd0 ecus look just like ours but we can't use them.

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Originally Posted by shepherd79

nope our cars are wired up to half of OBD0, technicaly we are Pre-OBD0. Since our cars have vacuum timing control, computer has no way of controlling. you would have to modify another distributor to fit and add more wires for the ecu to control the timing.
If we had obd0 wirring we could use other ECUs. I know obd0 ecus look just like ours but we can't use them.

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wow didnt knoe that...thanks for the info.

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Originally Posted by shepherd79

nope our cars are wired up to half of OBD0, technicaly we are Pre-OBD0. Since our cars have vacuum timing control, computer has no way of controlling. you would have to modify another distributor to fit and add more wires for the ecu to control the timing.
If we had obd0 wirring we could use other ECUs. I know obd0 ecus look just like ours but we can't use them.

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hmm. so are cars truly were the crossover vehicles.

i guess you can call our cars to be experimental for OBD0.

from the way i look at it tuning is getting adjustible parts and modding it and " tuning it" for performance , so only adjustible parts are tuning , unlike headers that arent tunable

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Originally Posted by Sporno

so only adjustible parts are tuning , unlike headers that arent tunable

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wrong, you can make custom headers to do what you want. It is all in a math and welding. 4-2-1 headers give you better low end and some improvement on top end, while 4-1 headers give you more of upper power instead of low end.
Now, depending on the length of the exhaust runners, you can put power where you want it.

ya ,but unlike an adjustible cam gear where you just adjust a skrew to dial it in

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Originally Posted by Sporno

ya ,but unlike an adjustible cam gear where you just adjust a skrew to dial it in

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yeah, but if you don't know which way and how much you have to adjust your cam gear it won't help yea.
everything comes down to a fine tuning on a dyno.

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Originally Posted by shepherd79

yeah, but if you don't know which way and how much you have to adjust your cam gear it won't help yea.
everything comes down to a fine tuning on a dyno.

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i hate being broke....i will take my car to the dyno one day....maybe bay area dyno meet.hehe