Project that i have been working on!

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Originally Posted by 2drSE-i

the flimsy sheetmetal center beam wasn't necessary, as the new MUCH stronger front crossmember/traction bar more than compensated for it

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Well, I don't know flimsy that beam is, when you can jack the entire front of the car up with it.

This is a pretty cool thread, and a cool project.
I've been in the market forever for a traction bar setup, but haven't decided what I want to do for sure yet. Here are my thoughts on this. With my vtec motor, I've had a hell of a time getting my car to hook up. It used to wheelhop so horribly that it was completely unlaunchable. Lowering the passenger side tranny mount and using softer motor mount bushings mostly solved that. People always think wheelhop is deflection in the suspension bushings, and/or deflection in the mount bushings, but that wasn't it. However, my car still does not hook like I want. Would those solid spherical rod ends help? No doubt. But how long are they going to last? A few months? They don't have sealed, greasable fittings, and I live where the roads are complete shit. So I'd rather use poly oem style bushings.
Next, the center beam thing. I want a center beam. I want the front and rear crossmembers tied together, just like from the factory. But I doubt I'll be able to do that. That will be right in the way of my downpipe, thanks to the b series oil pickup being on the other side of the pan, if I remember correctly..
Also, the factory crossmembers are not rigidly mounted to the frame, they are mounted with rubber bushings. So connecting a rigidly mounted front "traction bar" crossmember to the rubber mounted rear one, I don't know how that would work. But I don't want my rear crossmember twisting from the rear motor mount. With my setup, the entire rear crossmember flexes from the torque of the launch/shifts, Especially without a front mount to cut that force in half. I believe that running a front mount is absolutely critical, contrary to what those guys at innovative mounts think. When they weren't accusing me of lying, talking shit, and refusing to sell me new bushings, they were spewing some bullshit about how you can run 3 mounts with 85a hardness and you won't have wheelhop. Bullshit, your rear crossmember will flex more than the softer mounts would, causing even worse wheelhop.

Rob, and the rest of you guys, what do you think about any of this, and how strong is that traction bar? If you lift the car with a jack in the center of it, and try to make it bounce with the jack, how stiff is it?

Um....I have not installed the completed kit yet but the bar is very solid. Its much more solid than i even expected so i doubt it will flex much if any. I will probably make something up to tie the rear and front together when i get the car on the lift for more fabrication. I plan to make a tranny mount so i plan to run a rear mount, two side mounts, and the front stabilize provided on the traction bar which is strong. I would trust the stabilizer as a mounting point if it could restrict back and forth motion which the design was not intended to do. But i want a side mount reguardless so i won't have to worry about it.

John@explicit is very helpful and makes a full line up for the 3rd gen lude. Im sure if someone local (WA) brought a accord down he would gladly make any related parts.

I never considered the rod ends i guess time will tell but im sure we could fix that with new ends with grease fittings. My car won't be daily driven so i am not as concerned with wear and tear although i do want solid high end parts as most of you know.

You could post up on preludepower and see if anyone has been using the setup daily and overall opinions.

yeah he was also going to make us a front strut bar but it didnt go thru because no one came in with a 3 gee

https://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65226

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Accordtheory

Well, I don't know flimsy that beam is, when you can jack the entire front of the car up with it.

Next, the center beam thing. I want a center beam. I want the front and rear crossmembers tied together, just like from the factory. But I doubt I'll be able to do that. That will be right in the way of my downpipe, thanks to the b series oil pickup being on the other side of the pan, if I remember correctly..
Also, the factory crossmembers are not rigidly mounted to the frame, they are mounted with rubber bushings. So connecting a rigidly mounted front "traction bar" crossmember to the rubber mounted rear one, I don't know how that would work. But I don't want my rear crossmember twisting from the rear motor mount. With my setup, the entire rear crossmember flexes from the torque of the launch/shifts, Especially without a front mount to cut that force in half. I believe that running a front mount is absolutely critical, contrary to what those guys at innovative mounts think. When they weren't accusing me of lying, talking shit, and refusing to sell me new bushings, they were spewing some bullshit about how you can run 3 mounts with 85a hardness and you won't have wheelhop. Bullshit, your rear crossmember will flex more than the softer mounts would, causing even worse wheelhop.

Rob, and the rest of you guys, what do you think about any of this, and how strong is that traction bar? If you lift the car with a jack in the center of it, and try to make it bounce with the jack, how stiff is it?

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Didnt know how strong that center beam is. I've jacked on the front x-member, but that center one just looks like it would cave. Guess not.

What you could do, and this is just hypothetical, is instead of the stock center beam, is run two new center beams on the right and left sides (Clearing the downpipe and oil pickup) of the motor. Mount it directly to the new solid front x-member, and put rubber (or poly) bushings on the rear x-member. Would limit the flex of the old crossmember (i'd hope) and still tie the subframe together. Or you could fab a new solid rear crossmember too, but even more fab work...

ugly keyboard drawing
________new xmember________
****I****************I
****I*****motor*******I
****I****************I
---Bushing-----Old-----Bushing


Oh and messy, i tried for several months to get the guy to respond, they were super busy at the time and our market just didn't appeal that much to them i guess.

I was referring to the new front bar not the center beam just to clear that up.

I think I finally know what I'm going to do..anyone heard of johnny joints? Fuck rod ends..

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Originally Posted by Accordtheory

I think I finally know what I'm going to do..anyone heard of johnny joints? Fuck rod ends..

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Just what i needed! good find.

Made any progress on this Rob?

ok why is a johnny joint better then a rod end? My kit is ordered rob. All I needed was the radious rods. I went with the 16in kit you requested as opposed to the 17in that comes in the kit. I sure hope it works well.

Johnny joints are rebuildable, greasable, and quieter than heim joints. Arguably, they also have additional travel, but I only read that once....

Edit, read again, johnny joint wiki says 8* more travel, bringing it to 30* as opposed to 22*

Pic added for reference. You can see the Zerks fitting. Also, with a sleeve, you could adapt these to the stock radius arms. You would have to cut them shorter though.
http://www.currieenterprises.com/ces...e/ce9112sp.jpg

Bump, Rob, made any progress buddy?

Had a major set back unrelated but im moving tonight and have a nice garage to myself so maybe i can make some progress. I just sent the traction bar out to powder coat as the stuff i had was old and didnt adhere well. So when it comes back i will throw it on my new chassis since im swapping all my parts over.

I should have it on in a month or so and will post up pictures. This will be experimental since i plan to have a custom tranny mount welded to my B20A tranny as this kit is not intended to replace the front mount. But i will try it out since my car will be stuck inside for the winter.

Awesome man, good to hear from ya! Don't be such a stranger :)

Wow Rob, nice to see you're making more progress than I am (which is absolutely none). Pics once this new setup goes on (or is even just mock'd up) por favor.

I mocked it up on my red coupe when i first got it since the design came from the 3rd gen prelude. It was all the same with the exception of some minor things and the radius rod length and the stabilizer length.

It should be back in from powder coat this week and i will put it on my new chassis and post up pictures and my thoughts.

Ok so i finally was able to mount the kit on my new chassis and took it for a test run today. The only negative aspect i came across when used with a A20A engine was that when jacked up the drivers axle will rub on the new hardware that attaches the radius rods. But i drove a few miles and with it lowered on H&R's i didnt hear any rubbing nor do i think its even a issue when the car is on the ground. I couldn't check with my xenon kit blocking my view and my floor jack crapped out so i can't jack it up. Keep in mind this is the kit using a stabilizer bar in place of a front motor mount. Personally i feel it probably is stiff enough and strong enough but that is your judgement call as i still plan to make a tranny mount for my B20A. My B20A powered accord has a lot of play in the motor as is and my donor chassis with this kit has very little so im skeptical that my play is coming from a modified rear mount bracket which is shorter than stock since i was running a victor x intake manifold.

I will post pictures when i get a new jack and these are preliminary impressions as it was a short trip and i don't have time to look over things at the moment. But thus far i am pleased! The only modifications to the kit was a much shorter torque mount rod and shorter radius rods. Other than that its a straight up 3rd gen prelude kit and the only change i may recommend is to move the torque mount bracket over 1/4 or an inch. I will relay this to John@Explicit onces im satisfied that this is a bolt on kit and ready for production.

glad to hear man.....now post those pics! :lol:

sweet rob thats great. Ive been waiting to hear if its working out. Im ordering mine soon then. Thats great.

cool stuff man, so your not running that center bar thing that goes under the engine?? i reckon people using the wrong one of those is what makes b20as lean in certain accords, cause the mount on it may be different between engines/gearboxes. does having that brace thing not there affect the engine mounts in any way?

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Originally Posted by AccordB20A

cool stuff man, so your not running that center bar thing that goes under the engine?? i reckon people using the wrong one of those is what makes b20as lean in certain accords, cause the mount on it may be different between engines/gearboxes. does having that brace thing not there affect the engine mounts in any way?

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I don't think that that mount really supports the motor that well it seems it would control front to back movements but not all that functional. Most people are worried about loosing that bar will affect the chassis otherwise. I have noticed some B20A's have a bit of lean but i doubt that is the reason. I still plan to adapt a weld on mount to my B20A transmission in addition to using the B-Series mounts that i bought for a newer b-swap.

I will get pictures up asap but i need to get another jack.

I finally was able to get the car out on the highway and put a few miles on with the traction bars in and everything seems fine. Normally you should get an alignment right away but i have a lot of things going in before this will be done but i wanted to get some feedback up before winter rolls in and the car is torn apart.

Here are a few pictures:
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture122.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture121.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture120.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture123.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/u...Picture124.jpg

That. Is. Awesome.

I take it there are no issues with rubbing on the axle?

I forgot to try to check that with the car on the ground but i drove it fairly aggressive today with no rubbing at all. I noticed a little more vibration (engine) transferred through the torque mount but i fully expect that given i removed a engine mount. But i still want to adapt my Innovative B-series mount into the equation on the tranny with some sort of a weld on bracket.

The overall install was straight forward you will have to drop the lower knuckle to get around the axle with the new hardware which is longer than the stock bolts. The only issues i had was a broken floor jack and i manage to damage a thread on the lower ball joint but i had brand new ones sitting on my work bench so i cut some of the threads off with a die grinder to test out the kit.

Cool stuff Rob. Keep up the good work. BTW, I noticed your right, outer CV boot is torn in your pics. Time for a new boot if the axle is still good.